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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

Discussion in 'Stories From Inside Scientology' started by lkwdblds, Feb 28, 2009.

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  1. Challenge

    Challenge Silver Meritorious Patron

    I had 'em sign it cause my C/S told me to have 'em sign it.
    I was told that it had to do with 'blackmail'. IOW, someone somewhere, I think it was Ethics, thought that a one could or might be blackmailed for homosexual activity.

  2. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    There's always the TRs to get (ahem) phsical

  3. Lesolee (Sith Lord)

    Lesolee (Sith Lord) Patron Meritorious

    Fair enough. Thanks.
  4. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    CCLA Career Post Mortem and Follow Up

    I love this thread and it seems to "have legs" so I want to pump it up a little more. There seems to be a significant number of people on ESMB and also on XSO who have a lot of reality and interest in the old CCLA people and seem enthralled with stories about CCLA in the early days. I am at my peak in writing skills and storytelling so I have decided to pen another installment.

    In Part 4 of this thread I covered how I settled my Freeloader debt and was able to get back on CC lines. I mentioned that rather than pay off my CCLA debt in cash, I worked a deal which Yvonne and LRH both approved which was that I come in 9 hours Saturday and Sunday for 52 weeks and work on putting CCLA backlogs in order. I will cover what happened when I returned to the Org and how Yvonne and the staff reacted to me. I am also going to cover an incident which I call the Cindy Sieverson Caper.

    Cindy was a heavy set blonde girl in her mid 20's who I believe was in HCO DIvision I but she might have been in Div VI. In any case, there were people on lines at CCLA who were very friendly with Yvonne, Milton Katselas, Flo Allen, Flo Barnett and others who had contacts in New York City. Yvonne was urged to start up a branch CC in New York City. If I remember correctly, there was already a second CC started in Portland, Oregon at this time, early 1974. I have no idea why Portland was chosen for the site of the 2nd Celebrity location but as for New York City, you know, it has 8 million people, Broadway is there, great writiers, dancers, musicians and poets live there and as the song says about New York city, "If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere." Also of note, Steve Geltman a high classed auditor, even though he stuttered a little, was now auditing at CCLA. Seve's Parents, Frank and I don't remember his Mom's name, ran a prosperous mission in New York at the time. (The next day, Oct 25, I remember her name, Helen Geltman).

    In any case, Cindy was chosen to go on a mission to New York city for Yvonne to set up a new celebrity centre there, CCNY. Apparently there were already several Scientology celebrities based out of New York, I think the singer Jimmy Spheeris was one of them. Cindy set off for New York and right off the bat there was trouble between Cindy and Yvonne. Cindy left back in 1973 before I went to the Apollo and Yvonne would grumble about Cindy not performing and achieving any results at some of the staff meetings which I attended as Treasury Org Officer.

    When I got to the Apollo as Programs Chief, much to my surprise there were pages and pages from Cindy which were critical of Yvonne and which were claiming that Yvonne was not supporting her as promised. Two months later when I was filing chits for the MAA on the Apollo, waiting to route out, there were many more long letters from Cindy attacking Yvonne. On Yvonne's side there were letters from her to Cindy's Ethics file attacking Cindy for sending any new Celebrities which she contacted not to the new CCNY but to Frank Geltman's mission instead. Cindy denied strenously that she was doing this and Cindy's letters were long - at least 12 pages each, handwritten, and were those of an extremely enturbulated person. She just wrote itsa, itsa, figure, figure type stuff and she sounded as if she were dying on the inside and in fact I think some of the later letters mentioned that she had been diagnosed with cancer. NOBODY WENT HEAD TO HEAD AGAINST YVONNE, ESPECIALLY JUST A RANK AND FILE STAFF MEMBER WITH MINIMAL TRAINING AND PROCESSING, AND CAME OUT OF IT LANDING ON HER FEET. Yvonne also had a run in with Richard Forbes, who was a very upstat celebrity whose real name was Richard Sinatra. He married my auditor, Soo Ribisi. RIchard was Frank Sinatra's nephew, I believe, and changed his name to Forbes because he did not want to achieve success through his uncle's surname but rather on his own. He was an absolutely fantastic person, I have to go back and add him to my list of all stars. His fight with Yvonne started when I was at the Apollo but after I left the Programs Bureau so I have not the slightest idea what it was about but Richard died soom after of cancer as did Cindy Sieverson. Yvonne was a very powerful being with incredible stats and if someone challenged her authority it was hard for them to hold their position in space and a weak person such as Cindy quickly expired and even an extremely strong person like Richard, succombed to cancer shortly after his altercation with Yvonne and then Yvonne herself died of cancer.

    I do not know if these three deaths were related or had any causual link. I know for certain that Yvonne certainly in no way intended anyone to die. It may be just like the first clear John McMaster, when he began fighting with LRH and was off loaded, he quickly died of cancer almost certainly without LRH consciously intending this. All the parties involve were all in their mid 20's to thier mid 40's. You can form your own decisions. I know in Yvonne's case, she was getting only 2 or 3 hours sleep nightly for many years because she was so caught up in her work and serving LRH. There is every chance that years of insufficient sleep helped contribute to her brain cancer. One last sad thing about Cindy's death. Dozens and dozens of long letters which she wrote almost all went completely unread. Sandy Wilhere was overloaded being Programs Chief for 5 Orgs before I arrived on the Apollo and certainly had no time to read them, I skimmed a couple of them while programs chief but I had absolutely zero power since I never even got a hat pack which told me where I was on the Org Board. In the end all the letters were sent to her Ethics file, unread by anyone but me, who had no power to do anything, especially at the end when I was filing chits for the MAA. It is very hard to know that a Sea Org staff member poured out her heart and soul writing dozens of letters and KR's up to the Apollo and they all ended up unread and routed to her ethics file. Sometimes, when I think of that, I almost want to cry at how cold and unjust the world can be at times. NOTE: PLEASE SEE REPLY POST COMMENT BY CARMELO ORCHARD WHICH CORRECTS ME. Carmelo stated that as a boy, Richard grew up in and around Las Vegas and was fascinated by nuclear test sites which were active there at the time and suggests that his propensity to cancer came from his playing often near the nuclear test sights where he was exposed to radiation and his cancer had nothing to do with Yvonne. Also Richard died in Sept, 1979 not 1976 as I had thought.

    When I first returned, my old junior, Adele Vonnie wanted to talk to me. I met her outside at a local coffee shop and she wanted to know the whole story. I told her everything and she said that I really screwed up and should have never accepted the post of Programs Chief. I said, come on Adelle, I was brand new there and was ordered to Programs Chief by LRH. I had wanted out of Treasury for months and I got promoted up to a much higher post, how could I not accept the job and turn down LRH. She said, no, no I was all wrong, since there was no Hat Pack with items A to J, I did not have to accept the post. I asked well then what, I would be returned to Apollo Treasury making phone calls to Portuguese businesses all day long without knowing how to speak Portuguese. She said that since that post had no hat pack, I should not have taken that one either.

    When I went into the Org, no one would talk to me at first. They knew that I had been offloaded out of the Sea Org and figured I must have committed some big crimes. A few of my friends looked me in the eye and put out the message silently, "I can't talk to you now, but I still like you and think you are a good guy and I know you will work up through the conditions." Those were about 2/3 of the staff, the other 1/3 whom I considered jerks, just looked straight ahead and gave me the cold shoulder, but were they really jerks, no, they were just following protocol and were playing it safe until they got more data.

    I saw Yvonne and she was very kind to me, she instantly without thinking about it signed my CSW about working off my Freeloader debt instead of paying it off. She said I could start work right away, if I had time, could I pick up a package from Qual and take it over to another building? I said sure and went over to qual and Julie Goetz was there and I believe her sister Barb was there also. Julie asked me what was up and when I told her I was working off my debt and Yvonne sent me here, Julie relaxed and I was handed a fairly large amount of cash, around $1,000 to take to someone at another location. I thought wow, I am still in a lower condition, should I be carrying around Org money. Julie, made me feel so good, when she said that she had no problem entrusting me. After an hour or so, the staff knew that I was back and it was okayed by Yvonne so I suffered the cold shoulder treatment for only about an hour.

    Back in Treasury, Kitty greeted me. By the way, she had seen me earlier before I was okay to be there and she looked straight ahead with no acknowledgement, I just now remembered that.

    Kitty had given everyone in Treasury a new nickname having to do with money. Kitty called herself "Diamond Lil Georgius", the director of RAM, Frances Pavlides, was called, "It ain't Pennies Pavlides" and they had a new Dir of Disbursements to fill my shoes, his name was Jim Coonrad and I think Kittty recruited him. He was a good guy and was doing a good job in Disbursements even though he was still pretty new. She nicknamed him "Cash Coonrad", I think Jim was also now holding Purchasing Officer from above and Adelle Vonnie, my old junior had been awarded full tme tech training. Mark Ambrose, the out ethics cashier with the high stats had recently left when his bonuses were cut a couple of weeks earlier. He routed off staff as soon as his bonuses were cut. He had got me to let him use my Chevron credit card to purchase a hand calculator for $100 and never paid me back one dime even though he made as high as $700 one week, he refused to give me anything because he said he needed his $700 to purchase stereo equipment. Whenever I tried to write him up or went to see Margaret George the MAA, I was told his stats were so high he had Ethics immunity. Another brilliant example of the Hubbard Ethics system at work!

    I worked weekends for a whole year on into early 1975, usually I was in the Disbursements office alone or with Cash Coonrad. He was a nice guy and we hit it off. A couple of times he had questions which I answered but he was learing fast and knew the post pretty well by that time.

    Well that's, a wrap on this Wrap Up portion of my story. I may have another story in me for tomorrow because I went back on course at CCLA in early 1975 and I will tell about that and then my final meeting with Yvonne at the Fort Harrison in late 1977.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2009
  5. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    When Richard was a growing boy, in Las Vegas, he and his friends used to jump the fence of the Nevada underground nuclear tests. They got a rush from the explosions. Radioactive atomic particles cause cancer.

    Richard left the SO to start the Beverly Hills Playhouse with his partner, Milton Katselas. You have your dates condensed.
  6. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Thanks for the added information.

    Thanks for the update, that fills in some unknown knowledge for me. The Las Vegas episode would explain his propensity to contract early cancer and I really have no idea when his death actually occured although I am pretty sure it was in the 70's and he never reached the 80's. All I knew is that when I left CCLA for the Apollo in Oct, 1973 he was a Sea Org member and seemed very healthy and on purpose. When I returned to CCLA in Jan, 1974, I only saw him once, right when I was going in the first time to see Yvonne and he was in a hurry and asked me what happened. I just told him that a lot of bad things happened and I am currently personna non grata and am trying to work my way back into good standing. He was in a hurry and moving towards his car and he wished me the best. After that, he was no longer in the Org and I heard he had died of cancer without any specifics being given. It seems to me I heard of his death a relatively short time later, maybe one to two years but nothing like 4 or 5 years. If you know his date of death, please let me know.
  7. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    Sept. 79
  8. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    I spend another year at CCLA and then move to ASHO

    Before I continue with my story, I want to thank Carmelo Orchard for supplying me data I did not have. There is a reason why Richard Forbes got cancer and it has nothing to do with Yvonne and Yvonne's cancer most likely came from her not getting enough sleep over a period of years and not making sure she got proper medical care.

    Moving on, after one year of volunteering in Treasury and making regular payments on my Sea Org debt, the debts to the Apollo and the Bolivar/Excalibur were paid off and at the end of 52 weeks in CCLA Tresury that debt was now settled and I decided to go back on course. I was now working as the Office Manager for my Dad's constuction company in Lakewood, CA near Long Beach and had been there a little over a year.

    MY EX BEST FRIEND, HARRY - Harry and I were best friends from the day he took me to the Intro Lecture, nearly 5 years earlier. He took me to dinner at a nice restaurant right before I left for the Apollo. When I got back and worked up the conditions a little and started paying on my debt, I eagerly called him but to my surprise he was very unconfortable about talking with me and was not really anxious to get together. He had a similar experience with my Brother, being very close to him back when my Brother and I first joined C of S and then suddenly just totally cutting off communication with my Brother. Harry explained to me at that time, that he had a very heavy "case" which was easily restimulated and my Brother, without knowing it, was just pushing all his buttons and keying him in. He said he just had to cut the comm line to my Brother to preserve his sanity. Well now, I could see that I was not safe for him anymore because of my horrible experience at the Apollo which he really did not want to hear about. At his request, I did not tell him what had happened.

    When I paid off my debt and got back on course, I was still a Gung Ho deeply committed Scientologist and sought out Harry again. We did acutally socialize a little in late 1974 and then 1975 and 1976. I did all the reaching. I do not think he ever originated any calls to me but we did get together several times and do things. Somewhere around the spring of 1977, he moved and got a new girlfriend whom he ended up marrying and we totally lost touch. I saw him by chance in around 1984 and he was throwing an open house at his home in Glendale and invited me and my wife and our Son who was only two years old. I then ran into him at Flag in Clearwater in 1991 and then at the New Years Scientology event in L.A. when 1998 changed to 1999. At that event, he was very cordial for about 3 or 4 minutes and I got to meet his 5 year old daughter and then he let me know that he wanted me to move on by his body language. That was it, I never saw him again.

    I routed onto a course, I know it was not tech training and believe it was an admin course to help me run my Dad's business. One day I twinned with a guy new to Scientology named Ricks Knutson. We drilled together and he seemed to really like me and be attracted to me. I discovered that he knew Heber Jentzch from his college days in Utah where they were both Mormons and attended a Mormon University where they formed a friendship. Heber had run into him at the time and got him to come on course. I was 35 at the time and Ricks was about 42 which was also Heber's age I believe.

    Ricks said that he was a professional pianist who specialized in classical music and that he gave music lessons up in Santa Barbara. I told him I loved classical music and was well versed in it. He invited me to come up to his place in Santa Barbara's luxury suburb of Montecito and stay the weekend, sleeping in his spare bedroom. I was single and took him up on his offer. It turns out that he was gay and had a room mate, Ron, who was an artist and was his 2D. I had no problem with someone being gay but I told him I was totally straight and he said fine. From that point, I went up to visit him and Ron, a non Scientologist, about once a month for 6 or 8 months. I would always sleep over and spend the whole weekend there.

    When I arrived the first time, I found out Ricks and Ron were rich. Their home was like an old Spanish castle and in today's money it was probably close to a 3 million dollar property. Their furnishings were all antiques, one piece in their master bedroom was a chest of drawers dating from the 1600's which must have been worth a fortune.

    I MEET THE ACTRESS JANE RUSSEL - Ricks often put on piano recitals and often would invite me. He told me that Jane Russel lived nearby and was a friend of his and she was invited to one of the concerts which he invited me to. He said that he had sold her the Dianetics book last year. I already knew about that from my experience as CCLA program's chief. Jane Russel was really big in Hollywood as a sex symbol and a good actress just a little before Marilyn Monroe got famous, in fact the two of them starred in a movie together. At the party, Jane was not very animated but just sat there. She was probably in her early 60's at that time, 1975 and very depressed at becomming old and she was drinking a lot of booze. She asked if someone had a match to light her cigarette and I got a match or a lighter and ran right over and lit it for her. That was my claim to fame. She just said thanks and that was it. She was pretty wasted and depressed and had none of the energy and zest for living which she had as a young starlet.

    After finishing the course at CCLA, I was now eligible to do Power and Power Plus on the auditing side of the bridge and scraped the money together to do those two levels in late 1975 at ASHO. I then began training at ASHO Foundation on the Briefing Course in 1976 and said goodbye to CCLA but still was on good terms there and remember a couple of more visits.

    MY FINAL VISITS TO CCLA - My Course was taken at the old center on West 8th Street in early 1975 but by late 1975 they had moved to a larger more modern building on La Brea Blvd in Hollywood. Yvonne invited me to come to an opinion leaders meeting at the new Centre. I think my friend Bev Carter was supposed to be there so I agreed to come but Bev did not show up and I was seated right next to an absolutely beautiful young woman, Diana Canova. She was young, maybe 23 or so and very cute and vivacious and easy to talk to. I asked her if she was any relation to the old radio star from the 1940's, Judy Canova, who had a regular comedy show on prime time radio when I was a kid. She said Judy was her Mom and was still doing comedy in the night clubs. Diana had tons of charisma and was very easy to talk to and we just chatted on and on, just laughing and talking about her Mom's old shows and other things. I decided to take a gamble and at break, I asked her if I could see her again for coffee or dinner but she said she was already seeing someone and it was pretty serious. She thanked me profusely for asking her though.

    Also, in 1975, CCLA was putting on a big outdoor show in a famous amphitheater in Hollywood, maybe the Greek Theater and I showed up with a non Scientogy date who was very charming and attractive. The show was being hosted by Wings Hauser aka Wings Livingrite. At the time, Wings was married to a CCLA staff member named Sandra Locke, a very beautiful young blonde. Wings sang a lot of songs which had humor. There was a song which had sexual innuendos and was about a sex driven dentist who claimed that he could fill ones cavities (especially if they were females) The other performers with CCLA roots also performed there. I saw Yvonne at this event and she greeted me and my date enthusiastically. In an aside, she told me she thought my date was lovely and that I should immediately bring her to an intro lecture at CCLA.

    My last meeting with Irene Howey Derman
    I was getting a lot of calls from Orgs and some of the calls told me to come in for a briefing and others were to try and recruit me for the Sea Org. I would start itsaing about my experience on the Apollo and I still had attention on that cycle and could not resolve it and it was causing turbulance in my mind. One call came in from CCLA and after my itsa, someone I knew told me I should come in and talk to Irene. I set an appointmentand went in and I was very dispersed when I went in and my TR's were out and I had a lot of visible charge keying in when I talked about my Apollo experiences. I debriefed to my old buddy Irene and I believe there were two other female execs at a table in the room, listening and participating in what I had to say. I was trying to debrief to them and find some peace of mind but it didn't work and I just became more stirred up emotionally. I think Irene suggested that I come in and do a PTS/SP Course and that is how I got on course there in 1979, my last course at CCLA.

    In early 1977, CCLA had moved again to where they are now, the plush Chateau Elysee Hotel and Manor. While there on some AOLA business, I think AOLA shared part of the premises with CCLA, I ran into Yvonne and she was in very good spirits and very busy and gave me a big smile and hello when she saw me but said she could not stop to talk.

    Finally, my last meeting with Yvonne occured in late 1977, maybe October, when I went to the Flag Land Base to get L11 and L12. I was told by someone I knew that Yvonne was there and I ran into her briefly outside near the pool. She had a woman traveling companion with her who I believe was Flo Barnett or Flo Allen (I can never keep their names straight). Yvonne got my room number and said she would call on me. A few hours later or perhaps the next day, there was a knock on my door and she showed up accompanied by some sort of male junior. She actually talked to me for about 10 minutes but it was all about what services I was getting and how it was going. I asked her why she was there and she said that she was receiving some special audting. She looked vibrant and exuberrant as always. I never expected for a minute that she was ill. I was shocked when I found out in early 1978 4 or 5 months later that she had passed away from brain cancer. Bev Carter told me the story that the cancer was found late but some kind of brain surgery could have been done which would have prolonged her life but that she would not be the same, she would have to be confined to bed a lot and wear special apparatus and her mental functions would be partially impaired and she could not work. It was no surprise to me that, if this story was true, she rejected the surgery and preferred to die, firmly believing that she would be returning to CCLA in 3 to 6 years in a new body.

    My very last contact at CCLA was when I decided to take a Course there in 1979 as recommended by Irene. I believe I took the PTS/SP course. I was invited to do my Purification rundown at CCLA in 1979 and almost went for it. I think Val Garcia was the Purif Supervisor and I met with him but for some reason I chose do it at ASHO instead.

    After that, I never returned to CCLA until I took my 13 year old daughter there to do her Student Hat in 2000. The way my daughter and I were treated there by Dave Petit and CCLA staff and Execs caused me to be so turned off I decided to drop out of C of S. All this I tell in one of my earlier stories Part 4. The CCLA portion of my story is now completely told. I have a place in my heart for CCLA, Yvonne, Irene, and many of the other execs and staff there whom I never will forget. My experience at CCLA changed me, in some ways for the worse but in many ways for the better. I grew in stature as a person, expanded my concept of what could be achieved in life and met and interacted with absolutely some of the finest people on Planet Earth. I consider myself very lucky to have sunk about 9 years of my life into that Organization in its formative years when so many new and exciting things were taking place and we were led by such a dynamic leader as Yvonne Gilham Jentzch.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  9. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    The next year,Dee Dee went on to marry that guy, and three years later, they get divorced.

    If you know my friend, word has it that he is no longer writing music, selling his share of the business and his instruments, has trouble with his prostrate, is divorced again, re - disconnected from his brother, hasn't seen his kids in six months, and was refused auditing by Flag (even though he has big bucks on account there). Sounds like somebody is an unhappy camper. If anyone knows him, please knock on his door (in Sunland) and see what you can do to get him out of his self imposed hibernation. he doesn't return phone calls or e mails. I am really worried about him. Other friends and relatives are too.
  10. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Care to elaborate on this part a bit? Dave was my HGC auditor at the Orange County mission. He was an outstanding auditor, top one at the mission, and an all around good guy. I also worked for a time for his wife Diana in HCO. She was also a very very warm nice person.

    Haven't seen either one since I left staff and was frankly surprised to hear about Dave's joining the SO and his subsequent rise through the ranks. I've heard some offhand remarks about Dave's activities while at CC, but nothing in detail.

    Mark A. Baker
  11. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    What Petit did that I could not tolerate.

    Hi Mark, nice to hear from you. I cover the incident in the early part of this thread which I wrote back in March of this year and the current section is a prequel. I will briefly described what so ticked me off.

    I decided to bring my daughter to do the Student Hat at CCLA when she was in Junor High school. My wife and I wanted both our kids to do the Student Hat because we both felt we benefitted greatly from doing it.

    I lived in Fullerton in Orange County but had an upset at the Orange County Org when our daughter studied when she was 12. It had to do with the fact that everytime we came to pick up our daughter from course, she was in a room talking to Sea Org recruiters. My wife and I were never consulted, just bypassed. When we objected to her recruitment, we were threatened with SP declares. The E.D. there, Ed Dearborn, sympathized with us but said there was nothing he could do to stop the recruiting because the Sea Org outranked his authority.

    As a result, we transfered her to CCLA. My daughter had been studying piano since she was 4 and was quite an accomplished pianist so we figured that she qualified to be there. Her course was in the Public Div 6 and the hours were something like 9:30 AM to 5.00 PM. Fullerton was about a 30 mile drive so I decided that we would take the course and I would work on my office paper work in their snack bar and coffee area. I would eat lunch with my daughter when she came down at noon and then drive her home after course. This worked fine for the first 3 weeks.

    By the way, Dave Petit was second in command to Woodruff when I got to OC Org in 1986 and programmed me for a course of study at O.C. upon my arrival there. He was extremely professional and did his job extremely well, so well, in fact, that not too long after that he was promoted to be C. O. of CCLA.

    Now back to the 4th week of taking my daughter to CC for study. At noon, she did not come down for lunch so I figured she must have made a new friend and was choosing to have lunch with her new friend. However, at 5:00 when course was over, she still did not come down so at 5:15 I went upstairs to the course room to get her. She was not in the course room and nobody knew where she was1 I got frantic and my heart started to palpitate like in one of those kidnap themed movies where a kid is taken. I raised my voice and yelled out, I DEMAND TO KNOW WHERE MY DAUGHTER IS! Someone said, "Oh yea, she went to the recruitment event put on by Dave Petit at noon and she must still be over at the "Shang-ra-La" complex several blocks from the Org, still talking to her recruiter.


    No one COULD remember for sure who her recruiter was and what building she had been taken to and I started yelling at them, something like, "What the fuck type of fucking organization is this where a 13 year girl is removed from a course which I had paid for To take her, without my fucking permission, several blocks away to recruit her with nobody fucking knowing where she is or how to get hold of her. I demanded that she be brought to me immediately or I was going to call the police and report my daughter as being kidnapped. Finally, someone said, go check with front reception in the lobby, I think they know where she is. I went down and checked, it was now nearly 7:00 PM and the day shift was over and the desk clerk said she did not know where my daughter was but the clerk on the previous shift probably would know. She was able to reach the other clerk by phone and that clerk knew she was at the Shang ra Lah and knew the name of her recruiter. Finally, the recruiter was contacted by the phone and the recruiter said it would tke 20 to minutes or so to complete a cycle and then she would bring my daughter back. I took the phone and yelled at the girl to have my daughter back in 5 minutes or I was calling the police.

    They arrived back in 5 or 10 minutes and the recruiter was a young girl of 18 or so and offered some sort of slough off type of apology. I refused to accept it since I had a cell phone with me and no attempt was made to contact me and let me know that my daughter would be late. I told her that she was irresponsible and needed to get her ass into cramming and be thoroughly crammed on responsibility. She giggled some meaningless response but I could see that she had the concept that she had done nothing wrong. Perhaps, her hat pack did not tell her to call the minor's parent when taking a child away, so it was not her hat to do so.

    I was told at the front desk that Dave Petit regularly held these recruitment events at noon and pulled all young minors off of course on a regular basis to recruit them. They were served a small lunch and viewed a Sea Org recruitment film during their lunch time and then the kids were each assigned a recruiter who attempted to recruit them. I DEMANDED TO TALK TO DAVE PETIT NOW OR TO HAVE AN APPOINTMENT MADE TO SEE HIM LATER IF HE COULD NOT SEE ME NOW.

    PETIT REFUSED TO SEE ME AND SUGGESTED I WRITE UP ANY GRIEVANCES ON THE STANDARD KNOWLEDGE REPORT LINE. I talked to my head registrar, Kathy Garcia, whom I had known in my old staff days and who had signed me up for this course for my daughter and she was sympathetic a little but said that what was done was on policy, only in such a case, the parent or guardian should definitely be notified by phone. She said that even if this was not covered in policy, any recruiter should have the common sense to call and notify the parent. She promised to write a "Things that Should not Be report herself."

    I wrote all my reports and sent Petit a personal letter and absolutely nothing happened. A couple of reports were answered merely stating that the responsible parties to this travesty had been corrected in cramming. No mention of correction in ethics was mentioned because the Sea Org did not believe anything unethical had taken place! This included Dave Petit who never even responded to my letter! The Sea Org point of view is that anything goes when recruiting or trying to expand Scientology in any way and the only out ethics is with someone who complains about. it. I even doubt that making a phone call to the parent or guardian was put in as a standard procedure though everyone paid lip service to me on that one point, saying I was right. Still, policy does not say to do that and my guess is that it is still never done, though I am just guessing.

    On my way home, as soon as I turned on the key to my car and contemplated the long 30 mile drive home, I realized that I would never be coming back here, at least for services. As I drove further, I decided that I was now out of Scientology. Some kind of protective circuit fired off in my mind, it said, "I myself could be lied to, be yelled at,degraded, have all my money taken from me by the use of lies and false promises and that because I had such big benefits in the beginning years, I would always come back for more but when the Org and their staff started to bypass me and take control of my children away from me, they had crossed the line and I would have nothing more to do with them. I WAS OUT!!!

    Well Mark, you asked a simple question and it took a lot of writing but I answered it. It wasn't so much Petit himself but the Organization he represented and the policies they were following with him in the lead.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2010
  12. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Yes, and I thank you for retelling what must have been a horrific event for you as a parent to experience at the time. The SO side of it doesn't surprise me. I never have had any respect for the SO as an organization precisely because it has a built in institutional sanctimonious imperviousness to ethics.

    When I heard Dave was in the SO, and even a senior exec, I was frankly a bit dumbstruck. Dave was not only always very genial, but very attentive to the effect his own actions had upon others. The idea of Dave going along with the usual sort of SO insanities is a hard one to grasp giving my prior knowledge of Dave, still more his refusal to take responsibility. It's a bit of "cognizant dissonance" for me. It's evidently a part of the "devil's bargain" he made in joining the SO. However, he did tend "to go along" when Woodruff was pulling stuff at the mission, so its not like there wasn't something of an established "pattern of behavior" prior.

    Thanks again.
    Mark A. Baker
  13. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Points well stated

    Mark, your points are well stated and well taken. As for taking the time to write that long answer, that will serve as my next installment or chapter on this thread. I don't have to take the time to write the next chapter because now, because of your question, it is already written!

  14. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron


    Heber resisted the Nazi personalities for so long he became one,

    so therefore it was easier to go South with DM

    than go North and maintain his Integrity.

    Do you recall the standing ovations he used

    to get whenever he appeared on stage ?
  15. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Yes I remember the ovations. The first time I saw him was at the L.A. Org, he was only about 35 years old and still had a little bit of a hippie valence with a red bandana tied around his forehead. He sang the emotional sung about Abraham, Bobby, Martin and John, you know where one sees them, just turns around and they are gone referring to Abraham Lincoln, John and Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King. That was his stand by song when I first saw him. He was so stable, so sane, such a kind and good hearted fellow. To me, he was right up there with Yvonne as the best two walking examples of what Scientology could do for people.

    Well, choosing to go South with DM is a sad thing for a guy such as Heber to do but he may be finally getting his "commupance" since he is reported to be in the SP Hall at Gold, sleeping on the floor under his desk every night. At 75 years of age, that is no picnic.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2009
  16. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I believe I met Diana a few years ago when she visited London. She is a serious follower of metapsychology, and has also had many thousands of hours as an scn auditor. She is very charming, still beautiful and has the best speaking voice I ever heard. A mix of brit, south african and american accent,
    and a georgeous voice. I knew her mostly as "Dee Marie", if this is the person I'm thinking of. Currently in the Bay area, or was when we met.
  17. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Wow, interesting story.

    I don't know if Dee Marie was a nickname for Diana Canova. I have run into Diana's name several times in sites which talk about Scientology celebrities, those that are still in the Church and those that left. One site has a quote from her of two or three sentences explaining what she did in Scientology and why she quit. As I recall, she received auditing but was never trained to be an auditor. She said that at first she thought it was good and sort of fun but she started to see too big an emphasis on soliciting money and spotted a couple of falsehoods which she was told or something like that, anyway after a relatively short period she got involved in something else and left Scientology and does not remember it fondly but with some skepticism.

    Diana's Mom Judy was really a major personality on radio and I think she also appeared in a few movies. She was about as popular as a male comedian named Red Skelton, whom some of you may have heard of from the past.

    Judy Canova had the personna of a Hillbilly raised in the Ozarks and she spoke real slowly and with a thick hillbilly drawl. I used to listen to the show from maybe ages 8 to 10. I had such a good comm line in with Diana, she was so easy and fun to talk to that, even though I considered her a little out of my league I actually thought I had a chance to get a date. I wouldn't have asked her otherwise because I did not like to get shot down but the way she was talking to me and touching me playfully when I told a joke, I decided I had to try. She was practically engaged at the time and of course could not accept the date but she said that if she was unattached, she would have accepted. I was not sure if she was telling the truth but it made me feel better when she said that. Little things like almost getting a date with a beautiful young actress sort of stick in one's mind and add color to one's life.
  18. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    The Appendix to my Story

    I have decided to add an appendix to my story where I can add any new thoughts which may pop up regarding my old days at CCLA or on the Apollo.

    I am going to start off with a list which I created on October 15th in answer a reply to my story made by a person with the Screen Name, Tookemeawhile.

    Item I - THE BEST OF THE BEST! This is the list of the best staff and public whom I met at CCLA (plus 3 from AOLA and 2 from ASHO). These are the best from the viewpoint of my personality, each person probably has his or her own favorites. There are some extremely fine people I did not mention but if I was doing a list on a meter, I am sure the ones I am going to list would give the biggest reads.

    These are some of the finest people you could ever hope to meet. Many are also very talented! I present to you:


    Best Auditors: Ty Dillard, Ken Lipton, Sue Ribis Forbes, Candy, Denise Mulkey (AOLA)
    Best Case Supervisors Class XII Ron Shaffran, Class VIII Robert Maxwell
    Best Executives: Irene Howey Derman, Yvonne Gilham Jentzsch (Yvonne hurt me badly twice but can't be left off)
    Best Staff Members Sam Loria, Julie Goetz, Bob Mithoff, Henry Baumgard, Bruce Rigney, Betty Murakami, Gary Hart, Danny Shea ASHO
    Best Junior: My loyal Purchasing Officer Adelle Vonnie
    Kindest People Dir of Ram Frances Pavlides, Course Sup Carole Ferguson, Actress Beverly Carter, Auditor, Ken Lipton, Val Garcia in Estates, Al Boughton (ASHO and the Apollo), Urban Roman, Hank Billings (deceased) Flag Crew
    Best Course Supervisors: Carole Ferguson - Staff Hatting College, Kenny Wasserman - HQS
    Best Registrar: Hector Carmona, Enid Byrne AOLA
    Best FSM Robin Filios (AOLA and FLAG)
    Best Down to Earth Celebs: Richard Sinatra Forbes, Chick Correa, Geoffry Lewis
    Most Unusual Celeb Richard Kiel - he was 7'2" tall and played "Jaws" in James Bond movies
    Best Looking Women - Kathy Moore, Nancy Locke (married Wings), Judy Pryzblski (married Mickey Luelll), Kathy
    Shippen (Dated Richard Forbes), Susan
    Best Looking Men - Who Cares - Wings Livinryte, Kenny Wasserman, Dan Linker (Public), Frank & Frank (of Gemini)
    Best Entertainer - Classical Susan voice, Mario Feninger piano
    Best entertainer - Popular Voice - Stephen Ambrose, Paul Shapiro, Dick Glass (Elephant), Amanda Ambrose
    Instrumental - Sam Loria and Pat Maroshek on drums, Jimmy Spheeris on Guitar, Bobby
    Shue on trumpet Instruments & Comedy - Back Pocket (Pat Maroshek and Pat Robinson)
    Best Comedy Team: Solari and Carr (Tom Solari and Clark Carr)
    Best Emcee and Stand Up Comic - Reuben Hart
    Best Dancer: Kathy Moore
    Best Friends to Hang With: Bev Carter, Susan, Richard Royce
    Most Intelligent:Chris Rutkowski, FBO, Irene Howey Derman, Exec, Hentry Baumgard, Gary Hart, Carole Ferguson, Bruce Rigney, Dale DeWolfe, Andrik Schappers, Chaplain, Sam Loria, Gordy Kunkle, Betty Murakami, Heber Jentzsch, Kenny Wasserman, Yvonne Jentzsch, Richard Royce, Richard Forbes Bob Georgius Denise Mulkey. This list is only staff, not public or Celebrities except for my friends Bev Carter, Susan, and Richard Royce.
    Hardest Workers: Tony Klock and Val Garcia in Estates
    Longest Service: Cathy Latane Garcia (1971 to 2009*), Pam Lancaster (1972 to 2009*) *still there
    Well, thats it for now, check here from time to time because I will add things to the Appendix as I think of them.
    Thanks for listening and I bid you a Good Night (for now)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2014
  19. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron

    Just A Note

    Hector Carmona was at Nancy Many's book signing.
  20. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Say Hi!

    If you see Hector, please tell him Gary says Hi! If he asks Gary who? Just tell him it is the Gary who sold him the big Sea Scape painiting he had behind his reg desk for many years. He'll know me. Besides the painting, he regged me for onver $20,000 which was big money in those days, probably equal to around $100 K nowadays which is a good bit of regging for 4 years in a Class V Org, with 2 of those years spent on staff.

    If he would like to talk or email, I would love to do that. If you see him again maybe you could get a contact number, email or phone?
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