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The Tech Error of ’62-’63—How it Went Negative: RogerB’s FZ Presentation in Pasadena

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by RogerB, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Wot? You still getting gains? :happydance:

    Tell all :)

    Actually, I do have some more info to add to my initial write-up. I'll have to make the time to slot it in as an edit.

  2. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    It's not often that one hears the word 'love' in relation to Scientology. It's good to hear you say it.
  3. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Truth bears repeating.

    Curiously enough, I knew this all along but never really took a good look. It is a fact.


  4. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Thanks for the reply.


  5. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes, and Very Well Said

    Having experienced exactly what you said above on the Positive side

    in the last week, I can vouch for that Truth in spades.

    I always enjoy your philosophy.

    Thank you. :thumbsup::thumbsup::yes::D
  6. mysterysandwich

    mysterysandwich Patron with Honors

    Now that's profound.

    And so right.

    Brings to mind so many instances in sessions-both good and bad….and the positively miraculous…...

    I believe the absenting of love in the equation mechanized and parodied the process of auditing and reduced concepts like ”100% Standard Tech” and “in ARC”, etc, to the mindless, annoying jingoisms they became.

    Compassion was not deemed a virtue. Rather, it was frowned upon, as a weakness (never sympathize with a preclear and all that).

    And yet the old man said somewhere (a paraphrase here) that you could tell those who would make the best auditors. They were simply those people to whom, for as long as they could remember, others came to to cry on their shoulders.

    The good auditors then, instinctively know how to audit. And why not? They have been doing it all their lives. They are safe, they understand, and they care. They love.

    Metaphysical or not, as you say, others know this.

    So thank you for pointing this out so clearly and succinctly. It needs to be said.

  7. Love is all you need....

    Sadly, in my experience, it used to be heard much more than it is nowadays.

    Maybe that is the biggest out-point there is on the current scene. :confused2:

    Carmelo, what you said was very true, and I'm going to quote you! :)

    I LOVE all you guys and your words of wisdom which resonate with the truth for me! Big Hugs to all! :happydance:

    Love, SweetnessandLight
  8. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    I've been nonplussed and tongue tied by the responses to my post. I thought what I wrote was common knowledge.

    For my friends and family, it has been common knowledge for four or five decades.
    I must have been living in a bubble.

    In groups, centers, and missions we talked tech. Just like football or baseball players, we talked the game. --- looking for what works better, just constantly refining our play.

    Just because something was in writing (no blink TRs, quickie grades, etc) didn't mean everyone bought the party line.

    Good auditors care about their PCs. Good auditors love their PCs. Good auditors end the session on a win.

    A real win is not an F/N at the examiner, it is the PC doing (ACTUALLY DOING) better in life --- Better communication, better income, better dress, etc.

    This criteria is why I never had any faith in the new Co$ programs. Their stat is $$$$$. They don't give a flying fuck about anything or anyone else.

    It was true in 1979 at Flag, for me. They wanted the money, nothing else was on their radar. I fixed any number of people , who had the same experience there.

    Auditing works, as promised, if it is delivered by a group, who give a damn.
  9. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hundred percent perfectly correct right exactly. Was always common knowledge. I mean, just common ordinary obviously the way things work, the way things are.

    When you mix money with love you get prostitution, and that's what the CofS is today - a spiritual brothel, taking money and giving no love at all.
  10. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    In other words, you reckon he spoke the truth. :D Exactly, correctly and right on, eh? :itstrue:

  11. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron

    Well, That's the Truth

    I never quite thought of it that way, but you are really SPOT ON ! :thumbsup::bigcry:
  12. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    I really find the derogatory comparison above to be offensive.

    What have prostitutes ever done to you that you would belittle them by comparing them to the Co$?
  13. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I've recently had some thoughts in this area. After some time doing solo
    I recently had some audited sessions by an auditor via skype with him
    doing the metering by holding the cans himself.

    Note.... my middle name is Squirrel. :)

    One of the reasons I did this was it was experimental auditing, with a new tech for handling own GPMs.

    Well many years ago I did an admin scale for the FZ and included on it was
    that research into extensions of the bridge should be part of this.

    I've interacted for a decade or more with some of those who have had experience with the tech from almost the beginning, many as highly trained as it gets, and I've met lots of them. Such wonderful people.

    I wouldn't normally touch phone and remote metering with a barge pole,
    may never do so again.

    The auditor is class VIII " Rolf Dane" his posting nom de jour, and he
    uses a mix of the most powerful techniques from the subject. Repeater tech,
    creative processing and effort processing.

    I actually had no attention on what was going on with the metering, just
    went with the flow, and the odd comments on reads and F/Ns seemed totally appropriate. However the auditor cared, had very good TRs and it just seemed like a conversation really. As Ted commented somewhere its about the " Magic of communication".

    He may still be giving free sessions on this, if anyone's interested I can pass it along. Anyone near Denmark he does the standard stuff of course.
  14. Blue Spirit

    Blue Spirit Silver Meritorious Patron


    "Prostitution" is being used in a generic sense here, NOT a sexual one.
  15. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    It's a joke. :D
  16. I agree prostitutes actually perform a service for their money, Scientology would be more along the lines of the prostitutes in the video game Grand Thief Auto.
  17. Yoo-Hoo!

    Thanks, Terrill, I just LOVE squirrels! (And think squirrel tech can be very creative and useful- different strokes for different folks!) :D
  18. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    On the Subject of Love & Other Positives.

    Nice comments begun by Carmelo and contributed to by ohers on the subject of love.

    It is one of the positive attributes of "Theta" or we spiritual Beings I mentioned several times in my presentation.

    When a Being is fully, truly present; there with you in session, you experience their presence; the quality of their love, awareness, truth, honor, knowledge, co-creation, and many other of the virtues and qualities that naturally belong is a relationship of correctly aligned Beings.

    We each, of course, have our own particular perception of importance as to which of the qualities or attributes is most vital, worthwhile, worthy or otherwise wanted! And it is worthwhile for each to determine for themselves which of the basic qualities or attributes of spirit (Theta or the Being) is the most valuable to or wanted by you. It will afford some nice alignment of your pursuits in life and also of your case and how it has stacked up for you.

    Of course, such a vital item of pursuit in your games of life is likely to be the thing upon which you might build up "the most" charge; so it is also wise to be alert to the dichotomous, negative side of things that really piss you off and upset you . . . . they are likely to be the reverse or inverse of your most valued and most wanted :)

    Hubbard missed on this one. In 8-8008, he wrote of the "dichotomies" but really missed the real deal.

    We are really talking qualities of spirit here, and these are the elements of existence which, when we began our games so, so long ago we sought to exchange with others for they are so valuable. :yes:

    Ponder on it. :)

    It is why I mentioned in my presentation that these "positives" . . . the attributes that belong at the highest level of spiritual existence . . . need be addressed and processed directly!

    This is the stuff of you that is so valuable. They are the key to your powers, indeed they are your powers, and when used correctly and honorably they empower others as well as the game of existence you are in.

  19. archetypes

    archetypes Patron with Honors

    Did you find in your unstacking (I called it uncollapsing) that you took turns? For example, in one incident you were the big bully and in another incident you were the victim being bullied and it seemed to go back and forth?

    Honestly, so far I have not seen myself in a victim incident and not gone further back and seen myself in how I did it to myself or set myself up for it in a prior interaction with the being who I am now being effect of. I'm not particularly looking for overts, but more broadly for my Prior Cause because that seems to bring me the most relief. Also I scan the incident from the viewpoints of other terminals involved and from a Pan-Determined viewpoint, etc.

    Is not Flow 0 the only true flow and all other flows are apparencies? Isn't there gain to be had from whittling our way back to "Primal Cause" or "Single Deity"? When we locate and process a GPM isn't it the PC owning the GPM?

    However, I'm intrigued by Pennell's questions to the PC -- just never tried it on for size. I have yet to see myself create anything but mockups/archetypes, although I did fragment a being early on the wholetrack and I'm still finding fragments of that being here and there biting at me like angry fleas.

    For example, yeah, I fragmented the being because the being was trying to mind-control me by putting me into a black cube, and then I saw how I had been similarly mind-controlling priorly, and then I saw someone had "recruited" me before that, and then I saw how I had put everyone into a black universe, and then I saw a being program me to be their dark lord priest, and then I saw how I had programmed someone before that, ad nauseum!! And I suspect, but have not seen it yet, but I sort of suspect it all has something to do at least in part with the need to resolve "to be" and "to not be". Perhaps some other primal GPMs too.

    It's sort of a stripping away process and I can't predict what is going to be the next layer. However in a couple of chains I ran I did get back as far as original separation from static, but then another PC tells me he went through at least 360 universe cycles -- when and where does it end?!? According to what I know now it "ends" with me seeing me as "Single Deity" or "Unpotentiated Potential" Isn't that the big prize? :confused2:

    But as long as charge is coming off and I'm seeing gains in myself here and now (although "here and now" are taking on a different scope) I'm not going to strain my mind too much. As long as I'm attaining to higher and higher truths, well, as a good scientologist I am accustomed to the concept of going over material more than once and getting more TA the second or third time around. And the "truth" does get weirder and weirder it seems.

  20. CarmeloOrchards

    CarmeloOrchards Crusader

    Here is where I'm at, having digested your talk in October, and taken it to wherever I've gone.

    When I look outside and see my yard:
    the sun is shining
    the leaves need raking
    frost killed some plants
    flowers are blooming
    spring flowers are sprouting up

    My yard, like myself, is an eco system

    If I see out points in a friend or relative, I may choose to duplicate those out points (too much drinking, too much eating, crankiness, you fill in the blank)

    if I see plus points in a friend or relative, I may chose to rise to their level(sports, health consciousness, etc)

    If I see my house and yard as a dump, I may decide to emulate "dump"- call it ARC, call it hypnotism, whatever. It occurs.

    If I see my car or house as beautiful, and tricked out, i may fit my demeanor into those brackets.

    This is the start of my thoughts. At the moment there are so many thoughts, I'd give Dostoyevsky a run for his money - in words written. Instead I prefer to keep it simple.