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The Tech Error of ’62-’63—How it Went Negative: RogerB’s FZ Presentation in Pasadena

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by RogerB, Nov 9, 2009.

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  1. Cat Daddy

    Cat Daddy Silver Meritorious Patron

    Re: The Tech Error of ’62-’63—How it Went Negative: RogerB’s FZ Presentation in Pasa

    Well "pasive state" may be beter than "victim" and than you have "active state" an active state victim could be a "surviver"

  2. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Re: The Tech Error of ’62-’63—How it Went Negative: RogerB’s FZ Presentation in Pasa

    Cat Daddy . . . :biggrin:

    I wrote the items I found in a particular matrix of my own . . . in the live presentation as shown in the video, the question you raised was answered that those were the items I found in my particular first matrix, and tho the person I was answering, I said: "If you have that kind of subject matrix on your case . . . . you'll have whatever items/identities you have."

    So, Cat D . . . yep. Your items are right for you.

  3. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I've read where he'd said that he kept his own bank so that he would know what would run on a pre-clear and what would not.
    Sounds to me like a bizarre excuse to cover up the real reason's for one's aberrations.
    But nevertheless, if this is true in conjunction with what you're saying that he was attacking things from a position low on the tone scale, would that not be the ultimate proof the he was hisself very low on the tone scale?
    They say the proof is in the pudding and with the great lengths he went to in attacking others with hard edged "ethics" and assigning horribly invalidating conditions of existence, suppressive declares, PTS's, jokers and degrader's on and on, wasn't he really describing how he really was secretly inside his own head while projecting it all upon others?
    So then that sells me on that we really were just running Ron's case as he projected it upon us and tricked us into agreement with it all.
  4. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Well, we do know that the Hubbs was a con-man and a liar . . . so I am inclined to think that his "hanging onto to his bank so he could be sure of what would run for/on others is obviously false . . . let's look at this: if he was legitimate and had handled, or been able to have risen above the bank, it would have been blown and vanished and that per force would have been effective proof and certainty he had gotten the formula for its handling right.

    I personally am dealing with this on my advanced Games Matrix tech for the guys on my forum . . . when the Games matrix fully blows . . . I'll know I've gotten it right! . . . and believe me, at this level of case/bank handling, when you are doing something right or wrong you know it!

    So, Hubbard's hanging onto his bank shit is shit, a fraud and effort at deceitful self aggrandizement.

    In simple terms, Hubbard's approach to the case we have was, certainly after April '63, all based on dealing with what you "are" effect of . . . nothing deals with empowering your powers and/or positive virtues, attributes, capacities.

    What he gave his followers is a bottomless pit of finding negatives to get rid of . . . nothing is dealing with the restoration or enhancement and empowerment of your positives . . . and, for the record, these are awesome! But Hubbs never delineated them.

    Leland and Boojuum like this.
  5. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation


    Would you be so kind as to delineate here, for the readers of ESMB, the powers and/or positive virtues, attributes, capacities (and anything else that you consider relevant) which you/Alan Walter gained from your own efforts in this area?

    Also, please advise regarding enhancement and empowerment that you are confident of being able to produce in others via the use of your tech?
  6. F.Bullbait

    F.Bullbait Oh, a wise guy,eh?

    Sounds like the old man was working on his Buddha creds.
    DagwoodGum likes this.
  7. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I just ordered a used copy in good condition of The Secrets to Increasing Your Power, Wealth and Happiness by Allen C. Walters off of
    I wanted to see what was the early essence of Scientology that drew us all in, as that's my last remnant of interest in the subject, before Ronald shit all over it with his wide ass and this was the only book their vendors had in stock. The early years before Blubard fled in his Bluebird.
    Shocks me that Dianna still remains involved in Scientology with all that her mother, Quentin & Nibs went through too, not to mention the church absconding with the family fortune under the shadiest of circumstance.
  8. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    This as posted on ESMB in 2014 . . .

    Actually, Dianetics Axiom 1 is more accurate than Scn Axiom 1.

    If one looks at the actual definitions of “life” and of what life is, one can see that “life” is far, far from being static or a static.


    That the “source of life is a static” is far more accurate than to say “life is a static.”

    And the further trap LRH got folks into was to then set to describing “the Static” is terms of what it is not as in comparison to physical universe phenomena and characteristics.

    These outnesses have led many down the rabbit hole.

    Alan Walter and I worked on a “New Axiom One” which I’ll slot in below.

    In 1963, I experienced being a static when I vanished (as in erased) the physical universe both for myself and another accidentally.

    See: Blowing the physical Universe with Max

    Here is the dialogue between Alan Walter and me on “New Axiom One” . . .

    This is an exchange of emails Alan and I had in November, 2006.

    We often exchanged research "notes."

    The word "Spirita" is the word Alan coined in order to get away from using the word "Theta" J

    Tuesday, November 28, 2006 2:25 PM
    To: rb .com.
    Subject: NEW AXIOM 1

    Dear Rog,

    Thanks for the research material.

    This maybe of some help.


    My suggestion is to print this off and put copies near you and read it several times a day.

    If your mood level drops or you are having difficulties with honoring your presence, power or purpose - read this.




    Definition: A Lifeforce Presence is pure Spirita it has no mass, no motion, no wavelength, no form, no limitation, no location in space or in time.

    A Lifeforce Presence is infinite in depth, breadth, size and scope.

    A Lifeforce Presence in its purest state is capable of infinite aliveness, infinite powers, infinite duplication, infinite permeation, infinite intelligence, infinite abilities, infinite cleverness, infinite strengths, infinite skills, infinite creation, infinite love, infinite truth, infinite harmony, infinite knowledge, infinite know-how, infinite responsibility, infinite control, infinite experience, infinite exchange and infinite integrity it should be noted that each one of these infinite capabilities also has no mass, no motion, no wavelength, no form, no limitation, no location in space or in time.

    A Lifeforce Presence is in a state of oneness with all these capabilities.

    A Lifeforce Presence is senior to all gradient scales and the mechanics of life.

    A Lifeforce Presence has the ability to create and to perceive.

    A Lifeforce Presence is the infinity of Spirita (8) that creates the containers of the becomingness of the Infinity to Zero of Spirit (8 to 0+) - to the Zero to Infinity of Space, Time, Energy and Matter. (-0 to 8) = 8 – 8008.


    27 November 2006

    Copyright © 2006
    Alan C. Walter


    Definition: a Life Static has no mass, no motion, no wavelength, no location in space or in time. It has the ability to postulate and to perceive.

    I replied next day:

    New Axiom 1---Something Omitted

    Dear Alan,

    I’ve been chewing on the New Axiom 1, and I do believe we have a very important item omitted. It is:

    A Lifeforce Presence has infinite potential.

    One could use the less familiar noun form, “potentiality.” Good big dictionaries give wonderful expressions of what these concepts are in the context of an attribute of the state of existence of pure Spirita.

    This is a big concept. The stem word, of course is potent. And the original definition of it as an adjective is: that has power; potent. A modern adjective definition is: that can, but has not yet, come into being; possible; latent; unrealized; undeveloped; opposed to actual. The noun definition is: something potential; a potentiality. (These definitions from Webster’s New Twentieth Century Dictionary, Unabridged Second Edition (Simon & Schuster.) A simple noun definition of it from The American Heritage Dictionary, Second College Edition, is: The inherent ability or capacity for growth, development, or coming into being.

    I have for the last several months been processing in the area of this state of “ultimate, infinite potential/potentiality” and the what stemmed from it when, as a “Life-Force Presence of infinite potential,” (and interestingly I did use those words to articulate the scenario in session) I and/or we acted to convert the potential to express actual states of Being or conditions of existence, and produced “things”.

    Hence my view that we need to add this concept to complete the full statement of New Axiom 1.


    Alan did embrace my bright little contribution. In his lecture dated October 16, 2007, titled "Life" his opening dissertation about "Life" was all to do with this concept of its innate potential.

  9. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    @Roger ... I'm not being deliberately difficult but your response above doesn't come close to answering what was a very simple question ... are you willing and able to answer it so that it is understandable and ideally without scientology jargon or concepts?

    I'll re-post it below:

  10. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Yes, I too would like to know in what way is it all worthwhile in the aftermath?
    What will be gained and what will be lost?
    You seem to be in excellent shape both mentally and physically but is that more the result of years of physically demanding activities such as swimming or is it as much to do with the pursuit of what we're discussing here?
    Off to the side I've meant to ask you what experiences you've had with the large great white sharks that congregate just offshore from the busy public beaches in Australia?
    I once saw a video shot from a helicopter above such a beach and there was a literal buffalo herd of great whites just within a stones throw from the swarm of oblivious frolicking swimmers.
    Scared the ba-jeezus out of me just to see it having had an experience where I was followed by a Mako shark while kayaking off shore out of St, Petersburg, FL.
    A group of porpoises happened by and drove off the shark while I dug for a sand bar where I found a dead baby porpoise washed up and later cut across the open harbor to get back rather than retrace where I'd been tracked by the shark.
    Then the next day it was shown on the St. Pete front page where a group of angry birthing porpoises drove 2 - 11' Mako's onto the beach, right where I'd landed my INFLATEABLE kayak the day before - earlier the same day as the photo!
    Once a porpoise fliped me 360 head over heels into the air while swimming at a Naples, FL beach and I got out of the water immediately even though I could tell by the soft smooth feel of the creatures skin that it was a porpoise being I had paid to swim with them while in Cabo and remembered the feel.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  11. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    I remember when I volunteered on staff the summer of 1970 and was allowed free unsupervised access to the academy tapes, I always sought out the most "upper level" of subject matter.
    I don't remember what series of lectures, nor from what time period they were from, but the hot ticket to handle then was ridges with the idea that GPM's, intention/counter intention, circuits etc. were most easily resolved by blowing apart the ridges that they tended to become stuck upon.
    That's when some version of a repetitive process occurred to me that went something like "what would you ridge on?" alternately with "what would you not ridge on?".
    I had more case gain from that singular simple process than anything the grade chart later threw my way, so I know that some of the more workable processes were probably left beside the road as things moved forward as LRH proved to be much more about control and domination than case gain.
    Which is why I ask in all seriousness "what gains are to be found on some of what got left out and why?"
  12. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Oh really, “not being difficult”? I am not buying it, having watched your history of dealing with technical info.

    Above contains explicit examples of the “ be so kind as to delineate here, for the readers of ESMB, the powers and/or positive virtues, attributes, capacities (and anything else that you consider relevant) which you/Alan Walter gained from your own efforts in this area?” that you asked for which are in the material you are attempting to debunk.

    Example: “infinite aliveness, infinite powers, infinite duplication, infinite permeation, infinite intelligence, infinite abilities, infinite cleverness, infinite strengths, infinite skills, infinite creation, infinite love, infinite truth, infinite harmony, infinite knowledge, infinite know-how, infinite responsibility, infinite control, infinite experience, infinite exchange and infinite integrity” Also this line: “the ability to create and to perceive.”

    Of course, all these abilities, powers and faculties can be either negated or practiced negatively.

    And that is what I observe of you, you practice Anti-knowing along with many of the other negations of spiritual virtues and practices.

    In actuality, there is no possibility of “proving” anything to folks like you who a) negate what is presented to them and who, b) refuse to carry out the testing and analysis needed to actually learn what is available to be discovered. You see, nothing can be “proved” to negators, one can only prove things for oneself by honest investigation of the matter presented.

    Hence, I am not biting any further . . . I only posted to your earlier faux-request to take the opportunity to put some good info on the board.

    Dagwoodgum got it right.

    He asks:
    “(I) would like to know in what way is it all worthwhile in the aftermath?
    What will be gained and what will be lost?”

    In simple terms, Daggie, what has been lost is, in my case, nearly all of my own self-negation, self doubt, and many, many resultant inabilities and incapacities. Equally important has been the vanishment of unwanted and involuntary emotions, in particular the fears that are common to folks.

    I have attained the experiential certainty that I am an immortal spiritual presence that will continue to exist, no matter what; and am having a ball dealing with life as it is in the physical universe.

    I have over the years posted some verifiable examples of recovered natural faculties, abilities and powers here on ESMB. Examples:

    Beginning in 1959, I attained a state of being free from being overwhelmed by old mental imagery:

    Blowing the physical Universe with Max
    Since then, I have experienced a marked upgrade of my ability to interface with and deal with the physical universe.

    Being at cause over “death, the in-between-life and the choice of my next body”—1963. As I am now wont to say, “Death itself is no problem, it is actually a rather calming and pleasant experience: it is the dying that is the bitch.”

    I have achieved a state of knowing and empowered presence as a spiritual Being and intense awareness. And this has led to various telepathic perceptions and capacities. Examples:
    My ’68 story with the old lady:

    In around 1974 I was due to fly to Glasgow from London on the Shuttle, but on the prior Sunday, I telepathically saw the future event of the plane down in the wrong place, in the rain, with folks all pissed off making their way away from the plane (it was not at a terminal). I asked my OT buddy in East Grinstead what he could pick up, explaining the plane was coming down at 9:30 in some sort of emergency landing. But he could see nothing. Thus, on the Monday I went to my office in London instead of taking the flight to Glasgow. Around 10:00am on the Monday, my buddy from E.G. phoned me with the news that the plane came down at an emergency airport at 9:30am (just as I had predicted, my buddy pointed out) due to a lightening strike by staff at the airport in Glasgow resulting in the plane being diverted. Marcus Allen, is the guy who rang me in London. He is still alive and can verify these facts if you need.

    I routinely now exchange telepathic communications with those spiritually close to me even though they may be thousands of miles away physically. Also our cat can be affected by my telepathically projected imagery. Prior to using the tech I have I was totally occluded in this repsect.

    On “Solidity” and counter-forces

    Post #15 on this thread speaks to the way I can now, and do, relate to others. It is a very different scenario compared to how I was before benefitting from various techs:
    On Virtues and their dichotomies:

    Here is a write up by Alan regarding the actual sequence of changes in aspect, relationship and ability one progresses through as one properly processes areas of one’s existence. The truth is, we are natively gifted with enormous capacities and powers . . . all it takes is to clean them up and to start properly using them

    Alan on part of Process basics

    On the second question you asked:
    I was involved the the research into optimizing athletic performance from about 1952 with Forbes Carlile (later he was the coach of the Aussie Olympic scene) We delved into anything that would help, nutrition, psychology, hypnosis (an embarrassing news article on that bit) and all the usual of the day, "positive think stuff," plus yoga, Emile Coué, etc. Even after getting into Scn in 1957, this in furtherance of my research of upgrading athletic performance, I also researched Rudolph Steiner's Anthroposphy.

    So, while I did, for a number of years, engage in extreme physical exercise, it was all based on and related to my spiritual empowerment and the raising of awareness. Thus, what began as a physical enterprise soon shifted to investigation into and the practicing of our true abilities and powers to perform which are all based in our spiritual existence as their source.

    Interestingly enough, one of the most important elements of any performance is the power to control your awareness. My definition (and Alan agreed it) of "attention" is that it is directed/focused awareness. When you have true and complete control of your awareness, amazing things are possible. This experienced by me many times during competition: I won championships because of it.

    Of course, as you know I have researched nutrition very thoroughly, and that has played an important role in my continued physical health. Hence I have no physical ailments or concerns interfering with or distracting me away from the spiritual endeavors I am pursuing.

    The fact is, with any research project, and mine has been going for close to 70 years, one strikes both gold and dry holes. The trick is to honestly test and investigate what is offered or claimed by others to be worthwhile . . . and then validate the results you get.

    This being already a bit long, I’ll reply to your sharkie thing next in another post.

  13. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Posted by RogerB.

    Oh dear ... it sounds as though I may be well and truly off your Christmas card list.

  14. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    What has caught my attention lately, mostly due to your posts with links that gave me the goods that I actually came to this board for initially. What I came for was in search of not only what made Scio bad, but what had made it borderline great at some points in its history.
    You have certainly filled in the blanks on what Dillard Eubank had let me in on which was the truth about who really came up with the tech of Scientology and how LRH assigned research projects and then robbed the pioneers and innovators of it by claiming hisself as source.
    I now know how you, Alan, Gordon Bell and others came up with the best of what was Scio, much of it left beside the road as trash.
    When I initially heard LRH's lectures on ridges holding one's case together and that one could just blow ridges rather than handling these tedious items one by one such as bt's.
    Well apparently he found it more profitable, because of its time consumption. the handling of things one at a time.
    I had found a simple repetitive process on my own that blew ridges and I made way more gains on it than any of the processes that made it to the actual grade chart and I now see that he did that by design.
    He didn't want to make any real OT's as he could never control them nor clears for he'd have nothing to sell them.
    F.Bullbait likes this.
  15. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Yes, Alan made that observation also that Hubbard did not want "OTs" and that he developed what would sabotage getting the result . . .

    Here below is a bit of tech I participated in developing that is a cornerstone of Knowledgism . . .

    It is on the subject of "CHARGE" . . . basically, it is jammed and encysted spiritual Life Force. And, to be noted the science definition of "charge" is: Accumulated energy.

    This ditty below gives you the mechanics of how and why it accumulates, and how to undo it.

    Of course, it is this thing "charge" that we Beings have backed off from all throughout our existence down the time trail . . . it is why and how we got to be in the condition we humans are in.

    Attached Files:

  16. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Daggie, on the shark thing.
    Oz, of course is famous for being lousy with nasty sharkies . . . But Sydney has been free from the menace since 1936:clap2:

    In those days, and all throughout my youth, the beaches of Sydney were the recreation of the masses . . . most did not have cars, they were a rarity. We had wonderful public transport, and at weekends the trams would hit our beaches PACKED with folks escaping the hot suburbs to the West (no air conditioning in those days either) to hit the cool of the ocean.

    Well, in 1936, Coogee Beach (no real surf there as is has an island unfortunately located a mile of so off shore interrupting the swells) suffered six deadly shark attacks . . . this in just as matter of weeks.

    The government had to do something . . . and the something turned out to be to begin "meshing" the 38 individual beaches of Sydney. Each beach has a baited net out off of the surfing area . . . this designed to trap any shark that ventured where we did not want them.

    To my knowledge, there has not been a shark attack on any Sydney beach since. When I was instructing and coaching the surf life saving gang in Oz, and keeping tabs on this stuff, the "Shark Boat" used to average a shark a beach a week during the peak surfing summer months (December to end of February).

    Lots of folks are eaten who swim in the open ocean or estuaries elsewhere in Oz . . . including the tourists who dive into the creeks and rivers up in tropical Oz where the saltwater crocodiles yum, yum up on the offerings!

    But interestingly enough, the most dangerous shark in the world is not the Great White, but the Bull Shark . . . this bastard lives everywhere including in freshwater. And the shark attack/encounter capital of the world is not Oz, but Florida, USA . . . and it is Bull Sharks doing the damage. The place is lousy with them. The most recent stat I remember was in the order of 36 (about five or six years ago) . . . reason I was checking was that I was going on vacation with Virginia's family to the Outer Banks in North Carolina . . . now that is right where the warm water Gulf Stream bangs on the protruding East Coast. I wanted to know what the prevalence of sharks was before I set foot there . . . . well, surprise, surprise, the Carolinas had their incidents . . . but Florida was way ahead in a league of their own.

    Ummmm, they do NOT tell the tourists this :nono::bignono: :no:
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  17. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    Yes, I live on a 130' wide by 17' deep at mean tide direct saltwater access canal. No one swims in it, believe me! We've all read horror stories of attacks from our raging bull shark population that have happened in its waters.
    When I had the shark following me while on an inflatable paddle board off the mangroves on the east side of Ft. Desoto Park, I couldn't see the profile of the dorsal fin out of the water, only the front leading edge. The dolphins attacked it from on right side and I got out to a sandbar ASAP and gave it about 45 minutes and then paddled this toy from Fort Desoto out to deep water and north to The Hurricane Lounge on St. Pete Beach. I hand carried my board & stuff after a few beers by foot over to where I was staying because I was afraid to go back in the water. The the next day the St. Pete Times showed 2 large Mako's driven ashore by the dolphins, just hours after I had gotten out at that exact spot. The local parks & rec revived the sharks and set them free among the swimmers!?!
    RogerB likes this.
  18. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Squirreling Dervish

    There! I'll take an "I experienced this" over a "you will experience this EP" that Scientology had tacked up on their cheesy grade chart.
    Let's face it, there are benefits to be gathered in the field of spirituality, para-psychology or whatever you'd care to call it.
    Just because Hubbard squatted his fat ass over the entirety of the subject doesn't diminish or forever link him to the subject he so shit upon.
    Bill likes this.
  19. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Ya, what you can personally know, experience and observe is where it is at. The other side of the coin is that my biggest, most monstrously wonderful gains were not had in Scientology . . . they were gained after I was out. It simply happened that Hubbard's gig is what introduced me to the idea that we could possibly actually do something about directly addressing our spiritual nature, capacities, powers, attributes, etc.

    Though many folks did abandon the whole notion of addressing their personal spiritual nature, capacities, powers, attributes, etc., as a result of the Hubbard screw-up of the subject, many who held true to the underlying truths of our spirituality regardless of Hubbard's betrayal, have gained great reward.

    It also happens, that on my Knowledgism Forum, I have many who were never in Scn, this including a PhD professor in a Carolinas university (Ms in psychology PhD in nutritional therapy); an MD, and another who is a research scientist and supervisor of PhD student's in molecular biology. I can assure you that these girls care only about what works and is demonstrably true.

    Also, as a side note, I am reading Rupert Sheldrake's latest book (published in the US this year) titled: Science and Spiritual Practices. In the last 20+ years there has been a marked shift in "scientific" thinking regarding the juxtaposition of materialistic "science" and the recognition of our true spiritual nature and capabilities.

    The "it's all only energy and atoms crowd" are now days being shown to have been hoodwinked in their materialistic doctrinal "religion."

    PirateAndBum likes this.