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The Tone Scale: How Valid Is It?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Dulloldfart, May 7, 2017.

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  1. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Thanks very much for that, Veda.

    Here's the Project Gutenberg copy of that Darwin book, complete with illustrations.

    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1227/1227-h/1227-h.htm

    It looks interesting. :)

    Paul
     
  2. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I'll take the liberty of posting the detailed contents from that Darwin book. It's out of copyright.

    -----

    DETAILED CONTENTS.

    INTRODUCTION......................................................Pages 1-26

    CHAP. I—GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF EXPRESSION.The three chief principles stated—The first principle—Serviceable actions become habitual in association with certain states of the mind, and are performed whether or not of service in each particular case—The force of habit—Inheritance—Associated habitual movements in man—Reflex actions—Passage of habits into reflex actions—Associated habitual movements in the lower animals—Concluding remarks............27-49

    CHAP. II—GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF EXPRESSION—continued. The Principle of Antithesis—Instances in the dog and cat—Origin of the principle—Conventional signs—The principle of antithesis has not arisen from opposite actions being consciously performed under opposite impulses..........50-65

    CHAP. III—GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF EXPRESSION—concluded. The principle of the direct action of the excited nervous system on the body, independently of the will and in part of habit—Change of colour in the hair—Trembling of the muscles—Modified secretions—Perspiration—Expression of extreme pain—Of rage, great joy, and terror—Contrast between the emotions which cause and do not cause expressive movements—Exciting and depressing states of the mind—Summary............................................ 66-82

    CHAP. IV—MEANS OF EXPRESSION. IN ANIMALS. The emission of sounds—Vocal sounds—Sounds otherwise produced—Erection of the dermal appendages, hairs, feathers, &c., under the emotions of anger and terror—The drawing back of the ears as a preparation for fighting, and as an expression of anger—Erection of the ears and raising the head, a sign of attention 88-114

    CHAP. V.—SPECIAL EXPRESSIONS OF ANIMALS. The Dog, various expressive movements of—Cats—Horses—Ruminants—Monkeys, their expression of joy and affection—Of pain—Anger Astonishment and Terror Pages 115-145

    CHAP. VI.—SPECIAL EXPRESSIONS OF MAN: SUFFERING AND WEEPING. The screaming and weeping of infants—Form of features—Age at which weeping commences—The effects of habitual restraint on weeping—Sobbing—Cause of the contraction of the muscles round the eyes during screaming—Cause of the secretion of tears 146-175

    CHAP. VII.—LOW SPIRITS, ANXIETY, GRIEF, DEJECTION, DESPAIR. General effect of grief on the system—Obliquity of the eyebrows under suffering—On the cause of the obliquity of the eyebrows—On the depression of the corners of the mouth 176-195

    CHAP. VIII.—JOY, HIGH SPIRITS, LOVE, TENDER FEELINGS, DEVOTION. Laughter primarily the expression of joy—Ludicrous ideas—Movements of the features during laughter—Nature of the sound produced—The secretion of tears during loud laughter—Gradation from loud laughter to gentle smiling—High spirits—The expression of love—Tender feelings—Devotion 196-219

    CHAP. IX.—REFLECTION—MEDITATION—ILL—TEMPER—SULKINESS DETERMINATION. The act of frowning—Reflection with an effort or with the perception of something difficult or disagreeable—Abstracted meditation—Ill-temper—Moroseness—Obstinacy—Sulkiness and pouting—Decision or determination—The firm closure of the mouth 220-236

    CHAP. X.-HATRED AND ANGER. Hatred—Rage, effects of on the system—Uncovering of the teeth—Rage in the insane—Anger and indignation—As expressed by the various races of man—Sneering and defiance—The uncovering of the canine teeth on one side of the face 237-252

    CHAP. XI.—DISDAIN—CONTEMPT—DISGUST—GUILT—PRIDE, ETC.—HELPLESSNESS—PATIENCE—AFFIRMATION AND NEGATION. Contempt, scorn and disdain, variously expressed—Derisive Smile—Gestures expressive of contempt—Disgust—Guilt, deceit, pride, etc.—Helplessness or impotence—Patience—Obstinacy—Shrugging the shoulders common to most of the races of man—Signs of affirmation and negation 253-277

    CHAP. XII.—SURPRISE—ASTONISHMENT—FEAR—HORROR. Surprise, astonishment—Elevation of the eyebrows—Opening the mouth—Protrusion of the lips—Gestures accompanying surprise—Admiration Fear—Terror—Erection of the hair—Contraction of the platysma muscle—Dilatation of the pupils—horror—Conclusion. Pages 278-308

    CHAP. XIII.—SELF-ATTENTION—SHAME—SHYNESS—MODESTY: BLUSHING. Nature of a blush—Inheritance—The parts of the body most affected—Blushing in the various races of man—Accompanying gestures—Confusion of mind—Causes of blushing—Self-attention, the fundamental element—Shyness—Shame, from broken moral laws and conventional rules—Modesty—Theory of blushing—Recapitulation 309-346

    CHAP. XIV.—CONCLUDING REMARKS AND SUMMARY. The three leading principles which have determined the chief movements of expression—Their inheritance—On the part which the will and intention have played in the acquirement of various expressions—The instinctive recognition of expression—The bearing of our subject on the specific unity of the races of man—On the successive acquirement of various expressions by the progenitors of man—The importance of expression—Conclusion 347-366

    -----

    Looks like there is much food for thought there.

    Paul
     
  3. Freeminds

    Freeminds Bitter defrocked apostate

  4. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yes, she did, but it's not a scale, not just emotional responses, and not necessarily in order and not all of them are experienced by everyone, either. The Five Stages of Grief and Death.

    https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/

    There is a difference in approach, too. Kubler-Ross started with the cause (loss/grief) and from there, the effects and stages of recovery. Starting with emotions like the Tone Scale starts with the effects, and that's backwards. Like BigBlue pointed out so well, Scientology punishes people for emotional responses. The Tone Scale gives Scientologists the glib idea that they are actually addressing a situation by falsely bonding with a person by reflecting a person's emotions back to them and pretending to feel similarly. It's a con.
     
  5. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation



    The book "How to Choose Your People" (written by Ruth Minshull) was based on the tone scale and was probably the most readable cult book of the lot but it seemed to suddenly be out of favour sometime around the early 1980's and was no longer available (along with "Miracles for Breakfast" ... her other cult book).

    I found hubbards books were either hard work and virtually unreadable, pretentious, pseudo scientific crap or (like "The Problems of Work") so childish that they were embarrassing but HTCYP though simplistic was at least readable and (at the time) I felt it was useful. She did however go into predicted "personality traits" that were supposedly as a result of chronic tone level (she wrote a chapter on each tone from memory) but I realised after I left that they were truly off the wall and completely unreliable ... all criminals were "below a certain tone level and gays were automatically in the 1.1 band ... such rubbish and possibly the reason the book suddenly became "unacceptable" ... someone must have finally woken up to the reality of a potential PR nightmare if the book ended up in the wrong hands.

    :whistling:

    One of the best things I ever did for myself (as soon as I left scientology) was to cease automatically spotting the tone levels of others and making silly assessments and just allow myself to relax with people (not as easy as I'm making it sound but wonderful when I realised I'd stopped doing it) ... I cannot think of a more destructive and condescending way to go through life, it was almost guaranteed to create social anxiety issues.

     
  6. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes. Kübler-Ross's scale demonstrated:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g8KeqjSyqg
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  7. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    IIRC the decision was to no longer sell non LRH books
    in the orgs.
     
  8. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    I do recall that announcement at the time but I also seem to recall Minshull's books being labeled squirrel or more politically correctly - non-standard. However, Big League Sales Closing Techniques remained in good standing with recruiters and regges ...behind the scenes.
    :winner:
     
  9. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    Denise Brennan (RIP) wrote about what happened here:

     
  10. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Thanks,
    I was wondering how to write a decent post to address Kubler-Ross work (of a dedicated lifetime).


    • Scientology: not at all the same intent, same goal, neither same work, thus not same purpose. (mind manipulatioin and behavioral control)


    • No real research neither body of work done through years of observations therapies, testimonies, (of a large scale of patients) compiled in a very comprehensive way and useful. Can be called for what it is: Charlatan work pretendly done by a false Dr who never done any research in mental\emotional\psychology field ...


    • Work of other people, used to transform it as a tool intended to make cult followers in being judgemental toward other human beings. It is used to train them to categorize people in regard to their emotions and feelings (they either express or are attributed because of their clothes, belonging, sexual oriantation ...) for the purpose of screening pseudo clients in 2 hords...the one below 2 and the one over 2...One category being the bad people,(to dispose of since being degraded an unworthy -self dammaging) the other are those whom are the desired people the cult is looking for (ego reinforcing those people are the powerful elite and valuabel ones ($$$$) = ego inflating)


    • The goal is for screening potential prospects from potential trouble aligned in the docket to be mind processed in fitting cult\Source guru expectations.
      A TOTALITARIAN process.
      Such tool is , thus, taught and given to people for them to spot which people the cult want them to mix with and those to avoid and the reasons for it. The become vey competent in auto-regulating their behavior and associations.


    • Elizabeth Kubler-Ross ..A body of work dedicated to help people facing death while addressing main emotions and challenges they may go through


    • Work mainly consist of observatiosn and people's testimonies that she put in a comprehensive way to reflect the path of emotions people may experience when facing death
      Not at all a pseudo-tool used to diagnose or categorize people in a sort of predictable beingness\behavior\personnality in regard of the emotions they experience. Not for judgmental purpose..but to be used as a tool to help gain understanding of how going through the most cahlleneing time of our life may goes.


    • Body of work made of her observations, as a professional practiotionner in this field, for decades and that she made available to help people. Highly recognized (in the field of palliative cares) and used by fellow people working with people in their last stage of life.


    • Her work have been shared in books and workshop that anybody can read or attend, and was made widely available.
      The goal was: To help carers and patienst to go through this challenging time the best way as possible with the best knowledge and understanding.

      There is no judgemental purpose, neither to categorize people in order to declare them worthy or not worthy according to their emotions...That is the main obvious difference..One is to help withouth being judgemental but to grow kindness and empathy; the other one is to use people to become judgemental toward their fellow depending if they score on the side of either the worthy or not worthy.

    We never ever had seen any pseudo-work or research done in $cientology by LRH?? re: tone scale
    I guess nobody dares to do a search re:this pseudo-work, since everybody know LRH never done any research.

    In short: One is a scrap dammaging tool to categorize GOOD\BAD people - the other one is a fantastic body of work made available to bring understanding and help human beings facing tough times. NOT THE SAME AT ALL. :no:

    A Scale of categories a charlatan used to manipulate, and dammage the Self
    VS
    A body of work of a Specialist observations shared to help the true self
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  11. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    Isn't Kubler-Ross recognised as the "mother" of the grief process? Her work is still recognised in hospice work though I believe there has been a lot more research.

    Kubler-Ross was coming from a place of compassion, to reduce suffering at times of intense pain. That other bloke was up to no good. He was trying to codify things for power and control issues.

    How many times did Hubbard use the word "compassion" in his writings/speeches? I do not remember seeing the word "compassion".
     
  12. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Just looked up "How to Choose Your People" and "Science of Survival" on Amazon.
    _____

    Hardcover – July 14, 2007
    by L. Ron Hubbard (Author)
    3.9 out of 5 stars 68 customer reviews

    See all 13 formats and editions
    • Hardcover 
$19.95
 74 Used from $2.50 41 New from $4.48 2 Collectible from $9.00

    How to Choose Your People Hardcover – 1972
    by Ruth Minshull (Author)
    4.0 out of 5 stars 17 customer reviews

    See all 3 formats and editions
    • Hardcover 
from $61.63 
5 Used from $61.63 1 New from $181.32 1 Collectible from $115.00
     
  13. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Yes Glenda. Known for stages of grief.

    I guess the bloke didn't know what it was...IMO, such type of malignant narcissist ( he was) , unfortunately have no clue (or concept ) of suffering and pain...since they never had the courage to touch their deep suffering of ''emptyness'' (that would actually be their departure gate to healing) :confused2: Pthers are only a mirror tool to reflect what they wanna be ..a false self that doesn't exist. :unsure:

    The only word he ''knew'' was : Sympathy..and he made it a flaw..a wrong thing low on the tone scale. :confused2:
     
  14. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    WoW!

    Just did an obnose exercice of the tone scale to spot mine.

    1) Got my favorite pro tone scale , (electrophychometric accurate and efficient professional tool)
    2) look at myself in the mirror, obnosed
    3) as-ised

    and there it is..
    Just spotted it in a sec...
    Wow..it's like just WoW! :happydance:

    There I am..True high tone sexy chicks acknowledged..
    at tone 3




    [​IMG]


    WTF...guys are doing there ???...
    either nervous freaks or comatose lazy things ???? :duh:
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  15. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Since we ''used'' to be educated with childish stuff intented to be easily grabbed..


    [​IMG]


    for a real useful tool to help in identifying emotions and feelings

    Although you kids must clarified: Enamored infatuated
    and make a sentence like:
    (lotus being confused\puzzled by such word)


    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    Some people get enamoured with their flatulence.

    I was determined and resolute to eat ALL of the delicious soup I had for lunch.

    Sentences people. Sentences. :)
     
  17. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    I too was determined, resolute , defiant and dauntless to see the end of my last Pineaud des Charentes bottle... :yes:
    fantastic to handle a glum sulky mood

    :blah::blah:
    :batseyelashes:
     
  18. Glenda

    Glenda Crusader

    A woman that is emotionally healthy. :p :coolwink:
     
  19. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    "How To Choose Your People" is also online (along with other of Ruth's books).

    http://www.whale.to/m/minshull.html
     
  20. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    :clap: :clap: :clap:

    Terrific post, Lotus! Spot on. :yes:

    I wish I could respond more, but at home I've been challenged by a dead tree in my yard that threatened next door's house and electrical lines on one side and my electrical lines on the other. The smaller woodpeckers have left after making holes in the upper branches last year, then a big, gorgeous Pileated Woodpecker (the largest of all woodpeckers) came by and bashed a bunch of big holes in the base, showing me how it's far more rotten than the upper branches. (Thanks for letting me know, woodpecker!)

    The tree can't be felled without destroying the electrical lines and my ladder didn't quite reach high enough to use the chainsaw, since I need both hands. So I hand-sawed the upper branches off at a high angle. Had to wrap my sore hand and arm afterwards and now need to give fingers and wrist a break.

    The woodpecker was uptone, in action, so he couldn't possibly be destructive to the base, right?:coolwink: Or the ants and other insect critters who were so busy eating it from the bottom up. Anyway, wrist needs a break so no more typing today after this. Does that mean I'm downtone or PTS to big, gorgeous, stunning woodpeckers? :laugh:

    Actually, it was a remarkable challenge and experience. When I finally found a way to get high enough with the equipment I have and no longer as flexible, lightweight or young as years past, it felt great. The frustration of physical and equipment limitations dissipated and I looked out from the treetop to sunny, panoramic hillside views and no longer felt afraid I'd fall or intimidated. I saw and accepted the entire scenario, including my human limitations.

    There is no emotion to describe how I feel, I never felt like this before. It's an integrated love, acceptance and understanding of self, flaws and all, exactly as I am - the overcoming of some sort of life crisis. Just wanted to share that before taking a little break from typing.

    Thanks, woodpecker! :biggrin:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    I'll chat again with y'all in a few days. Bye for now. :fly2: