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The Tone Scale: How Valid Is It?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Dulloldfart, May 7, 2017.

  1. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Funny you should say that, when I was a child we were brought up on American offerings like Laurel & Hardy, Bugs Bunny, Popeye the Sailor, The 'Cisco Kid etc. etc. Then there were feature films like Casablanca and The Big Sleep with Robert Mitchum. We heard American accents from wall to wall, and to my mind the dialogue in our English offerings wasn't half as snappy as in the American ones. Furthermore, English gangsters like Richard Attenborough as Pinky in Brighton Rock for example weren't anywhere near as convincing as James Cagney or Edward G Robinson.

    As I've grown older I've learned to love a bit of received pronunciation, but as a young kid it sounded, well, lame.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
    tesseract and TheOriginalBigBlue like this.
  2. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Great stuff. I think we tend to discount our own accents. Like to me I don't have an accent but to someone else it's probably very distinctive. When I've been in Europe they seem to recognize me as American by sight. I guess we have a different body language or gregariousness or something. I'm part just about everything European and when I'm there I tend to notice aspects of the people in each country that I can relate to in some way. There are stereotypes for instance for British, French and German that are supposed to make them difficult but after recognizing those qualities in myself I found them to all be rather familial and endearing. I know foreigners wanting to learn English need to decide if they want to learn from British or American speaking teachers because whatever you start with you will be stuck with. At Saint Hill I rather enjoyed feeding into their expectation that Americans don't know history or geography. Hey, I ain't ignant!
    tesseract and strativarius like this.
  3. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    What a relief. So all this stuff about pipe organs in my head isn't just a past life alien implant!

    Boy, that doesn't surprise me one bit. With all the non-english speaking people on course and staff those tapes must be a nightmare, especially if you're trying to get them off the Staff Status courses and on post ASAP.
  4. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I like a soft southern accent, but a noo yoik accent can be a bit jarring.

    I love our regional accents here in the UK, with the exception of the scouse accent, which is horrible.

    If they recognised you as an American by sight it was probably because you spoke in a very loud voice, were smoking a cigar, had a camera around your neck and were wearing a colourful Hawaiian shirt and Bermuda shorts - and if that's not a typical Brit caricature of an American tourist I don't know what is.

    We Brits all have rotten teeth, drink warm beer and call soccer football, and as for the French, well, they all walk around wearing berets with strings of onions around their necks, the women have hairy armpits, they have sex in the street in full view of anybody and everybody, and enjoy eating frogs and snails.
  5. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yeah, that's all pretty much how I remember it - still, I thought I was being rather discrete...

    Screen Shot 2019-01-09 at 1.51.04 PM.jpg
  6. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    What's there not to like about any of that?????
  7. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Ah knew I would pick it up! :D

    You would be surprised how french are very concervatives about role models anx sexuality. They may ''appear'' tobe very liveralsbut are not.
    Often people thinks french women are ''easy going'' but not true. The hairy armpits is a myth. The beret is a cultural icone belonging to certain area, generations and eras.

    If you'd know what we have heard about British and sex...the saying of some is that under a very rigid and moral anblo-sazon anglican behavior..Humph.... unusual rock and roll sexual behavior..(you recall me talking about some of them, that I had knw of because of my friends, wearing momen practice their sexual intimacy...OMG..) :eek: The rotten teeth of English might have been true, as for any other society when they had discovered candies, sugar, prior to leatning the regular usage of toothbrush and dental floss..also more true in lower class than middle or higher..(access to dental care) But I think it's not cultural to British.

    But what is true is the eating of frogs legs..(not the entire frog) and the delicious.. :D

    I learned British English at school, but now I seems to speak a mix of english, 'mericans, and Aussi..Guess why ???​
    (it's especially obvious in my
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  8. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Screen Shot 2019-01-09 at 7.24.33 PM.jpg
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Wow! That sounds like Bonobos.
    Have you been reading about Bonobos?

  10. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    May I speak about the bonobos ???

    Actually, they have been pretty much extensively studied for their social interactions and sexual activities.

    1) they don't have social rules about WHO: it migt be sister, ma, solo, even bro...or whomever is available
    2) they don't have appropriate time, place to conduct such activities
    3) their sex production stats are very's done almost on a constant basis
    4) they also masturbate often

    They were found to be interesting subjects because of how their societies are build on good relationships and such free and sexual behaviors which seems to lessen any social tension so they are going easy and cool with each other. No quarrels, high rate of tolerance, no stress.


    I plan to infiltrate one of their clan and give it a try to lower my stress ;)
    (I didn't read any comment about old chicks monkeys left aside of the fun time......)
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  11. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Say, didn't Hubbard order a special security check for past life bonobos?

    Where were we? Oh yeah, ...tone scale.
  12. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    You know Blue...if uncle Ronnie would have known about such "pervert" monkeys, he would certainly got more money out of us with...

    [format=h1]The obscene monkey implant[/format]
  13. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Yes lotus, it's true, French girls are not as easy as is commonly believed. There was one, a certain Eliane, well, you wouldn't believe the amount of drugs and alcohol it took to get her in the mood (render her unconscious). :biggrin:
  14. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    Nah, he was too busy making monkeys out of us all
  15. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Actually Eliane is my name...
    and it's 40 years I am looking for a bloke english that is not a Brit sue him.

    Frankly it still takes some alcohol to get me in the mood but nobody's there to sing: Baby it's cold outside....
  16. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    I'm not making the bit about her name up (she really existed, she was a scientology student from Paris and was on the SHSBC when I met her) but of course I am joking about the drugs and alcohol, it was my devastating charm that got her into bed. :coolwink:

    If you were in the mood lotus (sorry - Eliane) my singing would soon change your mind.
  17. TomKat

    TomKat Patron Meritorious

    LRH did adopt a few Brit expressions such as "rather" and "to hand."
    lotus likes this.
  18. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    One American expression that seems to have been universally adopted by the news and print media here in the UK is 'met with', as in "The prime minister met with her cabinet colleagues ..."

    When I was a child that would have been simply "The prime minister met her cabinet colleagues ..."

    I hate it!
  19. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Having sup'd quite a few foreign-language students through the Student Hat, most of them got through the tapes OK (but understanding little). I didn't mind because I found little of value on the study tapes that wasn't well-covered on the HCOBs. [One highly useful bit of info not in HCOBs was that you can skip through stuff you don't understand without a problem (mostly) as long as you *know* you don't understand it and aren't trying to.]

    It was interesting, because one of the tapes has an incomprehensible section near the beginning, and I think one student out of dozens asked me about it. These were the edited tapes, with almost all the GPM stuff removed, and the incomprehensible section referred to a GPM paragraph just before that had been edited out. I had a copy of a fuller transcript on hand, and could quickly resolve the confusion (without spending hours on GPMs) if needed, but it only once came up.

    I had long realised that almost everyone went by 20+ words a page they misunderstood, so what was important was that at the end of the course they could do what they were supposed to, not the silly rule that they had "no mu's".

  20. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    I think that's a realisation that everyone had to have at some point. There was an element of fanaticism, I felt, around the subject of MUs. The idea that it was impossible to have understood the bulletins, simply because you didn't know what LRH:AB:cd:ef meant seemed a bit ridiculous. I remember spending over an hour trying to deal with an MU on a taped lecture caused by not being able to clearly hear what Hubbard was saying. The word in question SOUNDED (to me at least) like "over-larded", and I remember having a LONG discussion with the course sup about what the word might actually be.

    But I found myself that, when trying to study a scientific subject to gain an understanding of a particular point, but without being an expert in that area, it was INEVITABLE that you would come across words that you COULDN'T actually clear up, because they relied on concepts that, to understand them, would require a long and thorough study of a huge amount of material. It never made sense to me to have to spent six months studying mathematical physics (say), because the word 'tensor' (say) had been mentioned somewhere. So I quickly learned that you had to be sensible when it came to looking up words. As a result, I never rigorously followed the rule that you needed to look up EVERY definition of a word. Sometimes that was useful; most of the time, it wasn't, and could actually make you understand the word LESS than if you'd just focused on the core meanings that related to what you were reading.

    That's why I think that the Primary Rundown (look up EVERY word mentioned in the Student Hat, in alphabetical order) would be a recipe for utter confusion on the part of a student.

    My attitude when it came to word chains ended up being that I would look up words to the extent that I found it useful. If I found myself in word chains involving subjects in which I had no interest, I skipped it.

    So I think that Hubbard's choice to add reams and reams of photography and pipe organ terms to the Student Hat materials was ill advised. I had no interest in either subject, and resented having to wade through the word clearing on those subjects just to get through the tapes. Not to mention that it conflicted with another precept of the study tech, which was "study for application", and that you needed to have INTEREST in a subject before you could study it successfully. I also spent a lot of time trying to figure out terms like "SEC ED" and how it differed from "Sec'l ED". "Secretarial to the Executive Director". But secretarial, in that sense, didn't exist in the dictionary. I had no idea what it was supposed to mean, and spent about a day with the Word Clearer at St. Hill going around in circles. If I was confronted with that now, I would just sort of guess the meaning (presumably it means that a secretary wrote it on behalf of the ED, or something like that). And anyway, all this stuff related to the historical pattern of the orgs, and didn't exist in present time anyway.

    For someone who had "discovered" study tech, Hubbard at times didn't seem aware of its implications. The tech dictionary told me that the Class VII course was the internship for the Class VI course. But it WASN'T. The SHSBC had its own internship, and the Class VII course was something else. And I remember having to basically GUESS what the difference between a Dianetic Clear and a Scientology Clear was (presumably a Scientology Clear was someone who went Clear via the Clearing Course, but, if I recall correctly, the Tech Dictionary didn't say that). Also, when studying at St. Hill, if you didn't get in early and grab your favourite dictionary, you ended up having to use a dictionary that was over your head. I could study a course using the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary NOW, but when I was 18, it was way over my head. I quickly bought my own dictionaries - you couldn't survive otherwise.

    When I first arrived at ITO for KTL auditor training, the first thing that happened was that we were all given an RTC-type issue to read that went on for pages and pages, and no access to dictionaries. It was full of rules and regulations, and penalties for divulging the secrets, etc. I think we had to sign it once we had read it. With hindsight, I think we must have been expected not to actually read it. I, still being a fanatic, read every page of it, and asked for a dictionary. At the time I thought, "Isn't it appalling that we start the KTL by reading this, without a dictionary, and probably getting MUs on it as we go". But it's those little points that, with hindsight, are tell-tale signs that the RTC doesn't really believe their own teachings.

    Anyone who has ever learned a foreign language knows that it's IMPOSSIBLE to study a foreign language without going past MUs, even if you WANT to understand it all. The differences in grammar alone will ensure that it's not possible to understand everything at the start of your studies. You HAVE to be willing to strategically go past MUs, and focus on the things that you CAN learn about the language at the level at which you find yourself.