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The Top 25 People Crippling Scientology

Discussion in 'Tony Ortega' started by Type4_PTS, Aug 12, 2011.

  1. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    So David Miscavige is taking the sins of the Church of Scientology upon himself, and deliberately going down in Scientology history as a villainous idiot, in order that the religion may renew itself under Marty Rathbun's upstart leadership?

    That would be a brilliant tactic and a noble sacrifice.

    Is David Miscavige really that brilliant and noble?
  2. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Having personally known and interacted with DM I can assure you…no F’n way!:yes:

    Face :)
  3. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud


    But.... I still see no reason to trust that what Marty is saying will even come close to matching what he is trying to do.

    Marty, IMHO,is a slime ball at best. ( And I'm being real brief LOL ! )
  4. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh, I quite agree, Toady.:yes::thumbsup:

    To someone that personally interacted with Marty, I read his words and actions with a “Jaundiced Eye”. One thing I’m certain of is that Marty has “Goals, Plans, Programs, Targets and Valuable Final Products” that are--in true El Ron/SO/Scn Fashion--“Confidential”.

    Marty seeks to find shelter under the plea for “Rights and Tolerance” that he spent most of his life working day and night to deny others. Now, I know that there are some folks that will think that I am doing DM’s and Osa’s “bidding” by speaking my Heart and Mind about Marty, “The Black Knight Turned White Knight”.

    So be it.

    One of the most cathartic things in my life when I walked away from the SO and, eventually, Scn was that my thought process and “Take” on Life and my fellow Human Beings was no longer dominated by a self imposed filter of “Intrigue” and the self aggrandizing “thrill” of “knowing” things that "others don’t 'know'”. :melodramatic:

    Face :)
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  5. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Face, OSA INT screams I'm an SP & some posters here swear I'm an OSA Troll.

    I just shrug my shoulders and realize I can't please 'em all :)
  6. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    I just see you as kinda an SP Troll and dammit, Toady...I like you, I really do like you! :lol::hattip::dancer::dance3::buzzin::hifive::cheerleader::hyper::sing::party::woohoo::blowkiss::cheers2::cheers::bow:

    Face :coolwink:
  7. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Agree! :giggle:


    Hé Face,
    did you ever write anything like your ''hisself story'' but about DM ????

  8. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Thank you ! And, likewise, I really like you !
  9. Miscavige may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he can't possibly be stupid enough to think Scientology has something worth saving, if it wasn't for the money he uses to maintain his lifestyle and power he yields of the cult members, he would have left that freak show long ago. I can't image him wasting his time personally indulging in Hubbard's silly ass 'tech' like the morons he rules over.
  10. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    No.. He's not brilliant or noble at all.. But he's a scientologist..

    I think he's had a nervous breakdown.. Over his obvious and total failure to 'lead' the cult.. He's not doing this out of nobility. Rather he's like all the other scientologists, thinking about himslef that he's criminal scum and have untold 'overts' and sins on his 'whole track' that has caused his failure as a cult leader.

    In scientologeeze they'd say he 'caved in'.. So, blaming himself and feeling like useless shit and guilty of everything, he 'accepts' the handling.. Which is scientology ethics conditions.. Miscavige would be in VERY lower conditions. It's not himself deciding to 'sacrifice' his reputation. It's would be his 'ethics officer', or more likely, those who has moved in to salvage the cult.

    So who figured out that they need a 'Revolution'? - Not Miscavige I think.. But the idea is not all that brilliant.. I think Hubbard even 'explained' the 'caper' somewhere.

    Obviously, the 'caper' needs Miscavige to be thrown out on his ass and named the violently Supressive Person who nearly killed Scientology.. (Which is actually true!), so that heroes of the Revolution can resurrect Scientology with a clean slate.

  11. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    I think that it's plausible for it to pan out sorta that way, but not by design, accidental like. It won't be Marty either that ends up in charge.

    The only other thing I'd dispute is DM's reaction to his failure when he caves in, I think he's too threatened by those around him to let any one actually *see* a weak moment.
  12. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    I'm an outsider with a limited perspective, but for what it's worth, I just don't see that scenario, mainly because I think that Scientology is hollow at the core. There is no Clear, there is no OT, except in make-believe. So at the center of the CofS there is nothing but racketeering. The inner circle are in on the scam, though I think it most likely that they acknowledge the fraud in a doublethink way, in terms of them being 'big beings' who can be 'source' and postulate reality, while offering everyone an acceptable 'shore story'.

    I doubt that Miscavige has any sense of failure. He personally is flourishing and prospering like the big being he no doubt believes himself to be. I don't see that he has any peers before whom he could confess failure, let alone any superiors from whom he would accept discipline. Who is left in the CofS that could possibly displace him? He has run the racket well, and ensured his power.
  13. Freeminds

    Freeminds Bitter defrocked apostate

  14. Infinite

    Infinite Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller

    No, David Miscavige is neither brilliant nor noble. The caper you suggest, however, could be a replay, with a wider scope, of the transformation that took place in the early 80s when the Guardians Office was transformed into the Office of Special Affairs. L Ron Hubbard, DM, and several of the Indie Dependents' leading lights were involved with that PR charade and the template already exists. DM just has to do what he's always done - obey the tech. In 1983, the message was: "Look, Society, it was just a few bad eggs who we've got rid of now. We've made the necessary changes, everything is hunky-dory, you can trust us now". Of course, it was just a mock up for us silly wogs and, if anything, Scientology became more draconian and more able in the construction of transparent yet, legally speaking, sufficient Chinese Walls.
  15. afaceinthecrowd

    afaceinthecrowd Gold Meritorious Patron

    No...I still have a few more installments to write to finish "Shooting Stars"...I've been taking a break from it as I felt my writing was getting stale.

    My interaction and time around DM was much,much less than that with El Ron. Besides, AFAIC, El Ron is the focus of all that is wrong about Scn…El Ron is the “Source” of Scns DM’s, M&M’s, etc.

    Folks like Hawkins, Scobee, Headley, etc were around DM much more than I was and have written some great, great stuff.

    I don't see myself as qualified to write in detail about DM and really don't have anything of value to offer.

    El Ron is another story and that's why I'm writing about Hisself as much as I am.

    Face :)
  16. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    And it's very much appreciated. :clap:

    With regard to the CULT of scientology, hubbard was clearly and incontrovertibly SOURCE. :yes:

    The more first hand reports regarding hubbard's actual activities & character there are, as opposed to the imaginative fictions which are often dreamed up by others at second or further remove, or who may see themselves as having some sort of vested interest in promoting a case in re hubbard, then the the clearer becomes the history of the organization & its leadership.

    Your public remarks on this board have been a great addition to the historical record of matters relating to l.ron hubbard.

    Mark A. Baker
  17. Auditor's Toad

    Auditor's Toad Clear as Mud

    Yes, Face, you have dome much to show hisself as hisself.

    The purge of the GO to get rid of a 'few bad apples'.

    And so on down the line of getting rid of a 'few bad apples'.

    Sooner or later most people get where the bad apples came from.

    Poor Marty, almost as dim witted as his buddy the dwarf, has not been able to figure it out yet.....probably never will.

    What hisself put out there was some pretty nasty stuff.

    And Face I so thank you for filling in so many pieces of the puzzle !
  18. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    We love what you write. :)
  19. Lovinglife625

    Lovinglife625 Patron with Honors

    Of all the things I have spoken about or written about the religious cloaking, corporate veils, David Miscavige and Hubbard, sometimes one single memory stands out to me when I think of Hubbard's writings being behind it all.

    And that memory was of reading a one page document from Hubbard about the "GO octopus".

    In later 1981 we got to the point where we were going into our actual briefing for the mission known as "Corporate Sortout". This was after I did an evaluation on corporate that Hubbard apparently approved and thus this mission was being fired to replace the original MCCS mission.

    This new Corporate Sortout was the one that worked out and launched the basics for the new corporate reorganization starting with CSI launching in December 1981 and going from there with the new contracts, many new corporations, trusts, you name it.

    The one page note from Hubbard himself that was part of the actual mission briefing talked about the "GO Octopus". He talked about how the GO had woven itself into the control of all of organized scientology's legal entities and considered that the GO had done this as somehow being "proof" that this "outside group" was usurping control of scientology.

    What shocked me at the time, although I let it go, was that it was Hubbard himself who had ordered us in the GO over those years to take control of the main organizations of scientology and hold the undated resignations of all corporate officials while Hubbard secretly controlled it through "advices" and the like. Meanwhile he secretly controlled us in the GO though his wife MarySue.

    It was true that we in the GO were doing all that for Hubbard for years and years. I even wrote and supervised the very legal rudiments programs that were followed to do this.

    But Hubbard knew all about it and wanted it that way. So why now suddenly attack the GO for doing what he ordered them to do??

    After all, who else in his mind should control it on paper? He knew enough that he could not be seen to be controlling it as then he would have to stand up, admit he was in control and be liable for his own writings and actions. That, I believe, Hubbard was too much of a coward to do.

    But Hubbard felt that he did need to control things secretly and to do this he needed a group he could trust and secretly control it for him. When the heat got too much on the GO, he accused the GO of doing the very thing he had ordered them to do (control organized scientology for him).

    IMO there were only really three choices to be taken at the time as regards the controls of organized scientology:

    1) let the control remain in the GO who could continue to secretly control it for Hubbard:

    That was not going to happen. The GO was bringing WAY too much heat especially after the 1977 FBI raids. Hubbard needed a "fall guy" to cover the trail to him and the GO was it. He let them, including his own wife, take the fall for him. (They deserved what they got but the point still remains they took the fall in part to cover the trail to Hubbard while Hubbard himself attacked the very "GO octopus" that he himself ordered created). OR

    2) let the real controls of organized scientology fall into the hands of the most dedicated, staff scientologists who are actually assigned to manage it. We in fact pretty much designed a corporate structure for doing that (CSI, RTC, CST and so much more):

    Not a chance. Hubbard learned his lesson IMO when he lost control of the original dianetics groups by the very fact that he did not control them (overtly or covertly). Never again was organized scientology (dianetics) actually going to be controlled by anyone but Hubbard or whoever secretly runs it for Hubbard. OR

    3) Make it look like #2 above was being done but ensure, as was done by the GO, that those corporations were secretly controlled, this time by Hubbard's messengers. And this included the very same types of secret controls of undated resignations and the like, not by the "GO octopus" but now by the "CMO/OSA octopus". This would have the "benefit" of Hubbard still having ultimate secret control for which he would not realize legal liability as a board member, officer or trustee. It would have two additional "benefits". One would be the "liability" trail to him via the GO could be cut off. The second is that even more naive followers of Hubbard (in this case in the CMO) could control things and he could manipulate them even more than he could manipulate the GO (have them blindly follow his orders more, believe everything he says more, send him even more money, you name it).

    As I have covered many times (for example: ), the real control of organized scientology did not change at all from the disbanding of the GO into a "new" OSA. Hubbard always was in control, before and then afterwards.

    I never knew Hubbard to be a fan of democracy. There is a nice part in Janet Reitman's book "Inside Scientology" that explains how he lost control of the original dianetics groups and changed his policies on controls when he came out with "scientology".

    IMO all this makes Hubbard a coward and a man of no real honor. A man of honor would stand up for what he believes, not let others take the fall for him or stab in the back those who had dedicated their lives to protect him.

    It is not an easy cross to bear when you come to realize that so many have been hurt and are still being hurt by what you helped create while you supported a person devoid of true honor (even if you were not abusive and had the best of intentions at the time). PTSD and other ailments truly suck.

    At the very least we can simply tell the truth now. And, if it is in our hearts and it is possible, we can do something about it if only by sharing what we know with writers, with government agencies and/or with others who may be helped out of the darkness of organized scientology or helped from falling prey to their lies and greed in the first place.

    I believe that every time a piece of truth is told (no matter what "side" you are on) it can only help.

    IMO and FWIW
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2011
  20. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    very :goodposting: