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The Vital Importance of Showing Kindness and Compassion for All Living Things

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
So, if you are a spirit animating a body, where are the spirits who did not pick up a body when they dropped the last one?
Surely you are not so simple as to believe that when you die, you go to heaven and twiddle your thumbs for eternity.

It seems to me that Hubbard only ever considered one dimension (for want of a better word). He would talk about going exterior and floating around the MEST universe or picking up another body etc.

However, other spiritual people talk about multiple dimensions - like a radio station has different channels all of which exist simultaneously but you can only hear the one you are tuned in to.

So in answer to your question about where spirits go if they don't pick up a body, I think there are many people with answers to that and they usually involve going to another dimension rather than being stuck in this limited "one-dimensional" view that you and Hubbard seem to have.

My point being that there are many viewpoints on this question and you seem to me to be limiting yourself to the Hubbardarian view.
 

Billy Blinder

Patron with Honors
How far this forum has fallen from its early and more hopeful beginnings.
I placed my post in this section because it is titled, "Human Potential, self discovery outside and beyond Scientology".

I should have realized that most of the commenters are old culties, probably SO members, who never got their OT levels and never could understand that bts were all too real, especially for those who did not handle them carefully.

It also appears that most of the commenters have not discovered Google yet and therefore think in their infinite culty wisdom that spiritual beings are pure hogwash.

Spirit Guides, demons, ghosts, etc. have been around long before Ron's efforts at describing them and there are millions of people who deal with these beings everyday as opposed to the few thousands of culties who still smart at their treatment by the people they used to obey and think spirits are hogwash.

People like LRH and others who fear spiritual beings do everything possible to banish them from consideration.

Using terms like "delusions, snake oil, typical crap, fear and scare tactics, paranoia, and schizophrenia may lessen your fear through ridicule, but at the end of the day you still have no clue why the mention of entities sets you off.

I realize that insulting you culties who never got case gain may be viewed as poor form, but your continual whining speaks poorly of your ability to learn from your experience in the cult.

After spending 30+ years in the cult of which 20 were spend auditing as a volunteer staff member in major orgs, I know for certain that some of the so-called tech works, at least 15% at most. I also spent 10 years as a mission holder so I have seen the best and the worst of what $cientology can do.

The fact that I continue to help people and run an international practice says only that I care about people who are willing to change. I get results and that is what counts for my clients.

I appreciate where you scoffers are coming from and bear you no ill will. Your strawman arguments only show your inability to read what is written and to look.
Instead you let your entities (bts for the culties) get the best of you and send you chattering nonsense about subjects you cannot confront.

Those of you who wish to chat intelligently about issues you want to handle know where to find me.

David St Lawrence and his entities :):):)

Hard Sell is defined as caring about the person, getting them thru the stops and barriers to achieve the service that will rehabilitate them.

Nice try David.

Your 15% is the same snake oil as anything else, placebo. Hubbard claimed 100%.

Entities, never heard of them nor educated in them. NO, I don't need word clearing. LOL

I suppose RJ67 comes to mind, the carrot on a stick. I'd rather say law of diminishing returns in the scientology and off shoot games.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Are you trying to kill me? I can't inhale/exhale/breath properly here. :hysterical:

I can't chose, um, um, is there, um, some sort of "try before you [STRIKE]get totally sucked in[/STRIKE] buy" thing - or perhaps, a free six months with each one (like that other cult I was in with the free 6 month membership thing) before I [STRIKE]ruin my life[/STRIKE] commit?

[STRIKE]p.s. with the beatnik guru do you the think the free-substances-if-virgin thing might be negotiable? [/STRIKE]

Hum....!

The way you figure it out Glenda makes me thing that you are now ready to move a step further , to graduate to a higher level :yes:

How about moving up to total cause and power over beatnik followers ????
You'll get plenty of substances donations , avoiding any seck checking of your eligibility :confused2:


crazy-new-age-woman-yellow-robe-12284521.jpg


* This outfit will naturally protect you against any malignant entity...of course!
 

Helena Handbasket

Gold Meritorious Patron
Dear Lotus,

My entities are a lot funnier and crueler than than I normally am.
They do not tolerate fools for very long.
We are still working to come to a compromise that works best.

In the creative area, friendly entities (also known as spiritual teammates) help with research and writing.
If you are familiar with computer jargon, they act like parallel processors and can work on projects
while I am working on other tasks.
I wouldn't know about Spiritual Teammateism, but in RONS Orgs entities are specifically given a choice between leaving and "helping me". I don't consider this slavery. Some I'm sure want to find a body of their own, but if the choice comes down to contributing to your body's survival and not being associated with any body, some will choose to stay. There's nothing really worse than having nothing to do.

It's easy to do. Take some mundane task, like showering, and do it the same way every time. Soon some entity will take over the task, and lead you through the steps until you do it without putting any attention on it yourself. You'll wonder how you got to the end of the task without seemingly having done it.

But there's a downside to letting entities take over. You become less able yourself to get things done. You could be running on automatic, doing things you don't want to, or not being able to do things you do want to.

Helena
 

Glenda

Crusader
Hum....!

The way you figure it out Glenda makes me thing that you are now ready to move a step further , to graduate to a higher level :yes:

How about moving up to total cause and power over beatnik followers ????
You'll get plenty of substances donations , avoiding any seck checking of your eligibility :confused2:


crazy-new-age-woman-yellow-robe-12284521.jpg


* This outfit will naturally protect you against any malignant entity...of course!

:) Yes I am ready. Have located suitable clothing/head-wear. All set for new improved total cause and power experiences with replacement guru (whatever that means, but it sounds good). :unsure:

The Defrocked Apostate Research Unit (DARU) have just released these few snap-shots from the filing cabinets.

Guru04%20250x176.jpg

Guru06%20250x188.jpg

Guru01%20250x166.jpg

Guru08%20250x195.jpg

As you can see, we here at DARU are taking this very very seriously. True commitment - on purpose baby! Gawd help us all. :wink2:

How are things working out for you with the sexy guru? Please do send regular reports to ESMB. We are genuinely [STRIKE]voyeuristic[/STRIKE] interested in your well-being Lotus. :)
 

OldAuditor

Patron with Honors
People have been investigating spirits long before Scientology appeared on the scene.
Scientology's big contribution seems to be screwing with people so they are afraid of mentioning spiritual beings or even believing they are spiritual beings.
In this thread alone, several people have stated that they do not believe they are spiritual beings.

If a discussion of spirits causes mental confusion or upset, something is seriously wrong here.
This section of ESMB is titled: Human Potential, self discovery outside and beyond Scientology.
If a discussion of spirits arouses hostility, just what is the concern?
Are people afraid of the mention of spirits in the 21st Century?

When someone says they are only a meat body, it feels like we are going backwards.

It seems even stranger when someone claims I am hurting their feelings by presenting data they do not agree with.
If these ideas hurt your mind, just ignore them. No one is making you believe in spirits, I am just reporting what has been found.

There are tens of thousands of people who have worked out ways to communicate effectively with the spiritual entities that surround them.
There are many books written on how to talk to your personal angels and how to recognize your spirit guides.
There are entire organizations working to raise awareness of the importance of working with our spiritual partners.

Google “spirit guides”, “angels”, “spiritual entities” and you will find more accurate information about these spiritual beings than most people could imagine.


The weak spot in much of this spirit guide literature is that the major attention is on the helpful spiritual entities who are willing to communicate
and help people and the handling of demonic entities is left to a priest or other professional.


Handlings for angry or demonic spirits are focused on driving them away. This is the approach used by the Catholic Church and the Church of Scientology.
Exorcists and Scientologists are both trying to drive “evil” entities away. The Vatican even has a department of Exorcism with a Head Exorcist.
 

OldAuditor

Patron with Honors
I wouldn't know about Spiritual Teammateism, but in RONS Orgs entities are specifically given a choice between leaving and "helping me". I don't consider this slavery. Some I'm sure want to find a body of their own, but if the choice comes down to contributing to your body's survival and not being associated with any body, some will choose to stay. There's nothing really worse than having nothing to do.

It's easy to do. Take some mundane task, like showering, and do it the same way every time. Soon some entity will take over the task, and lead you through the steps until you do it without putting any attention on it yourself. You'll wonder how you got to the end of the task without seemingly having done it.

But there's a downside to letting entities take over. You become less able yourself to get things done. You could be running on automatic, doing things you don't want to, or not being able to do things you do want to.

Helena

Helena, your last sentence contains a lot of truth. Running on automatic has its downsides.
How many commuters get in their cars and zone out until they arrive at work?

Staying in present time while commuting really takes concentration.

Having entities around you who contribute to your survival is a positive experience.
Managing them so they do not distract you or take over unexpectedly is a skill which can be learned.
 

OldAuditor

Patron with Honors
It seems to me that Hubbard only ever considered one dimension (for want of a better word). He would talk about going exterior and floating around the MEST universe or picking up another body etc.

However, other spiritual people talk about multiple dimensions - like a radio station has different channels all of which exist simultaneously but you can only hear the one you are tuned in to.

So in answer to your question about where spirits go if they don't pick up a body, I think there are many people with answers to that and they usually involve going to another dimension rather than being stuck in this limited "one-dimensional" view that you and Hubbard seem to have.

My point being that there are many viewpoints on this question and you seem to me to be limiting yourself to the Hubbardarian view.


I am not sure what the Hubbardian view is/was because he would change it frequently and then say he had not.

I feel that there are alternate timelines and alternate universes, because these have come up in sessions over my 40 odd years of auditing others.

I seem to be spending most of my time in this universe and have encountered many beings who used to have bodies and do not now.
Some have decided that they will never have a body again because of some past experience, while others are quite happy at the prospect of getting back in the game of life.
Playing the game of life seems to require a body in order to interact with the other players.

One of the more amusing things that keep coming up in session is the surprise and upset when beings realize that there is no Heaven as they have been told, only a long existence floating around in other peoples lives.

I would think that once free of a body, a being would explore the possibilities of other planets and other universes as you surmise.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
Emphasis mine.

People have been investigating spirits long before Scientology appeared on the scene.
Scientology's big contribution seems to be screwing with people so they are afraid of mentioning spiritual beings or even believing they are spiritual beings.
In this thread alone, several people have stated that they do not believe they are spiritual beings.

If a discussion of spirits causes mental confusion or upset, something is seriously wrong here.
This section of ESMB is titled: Human Potential, self discovery outside and beyond Scientology.
If a discussion of spirits arouses hostility, just what is the concern?
Are people afraid of the mention of spirits in the 21st Century?

When someone says they are only a meat body, it feels like we are going backwards.

It seems even stranger when someone claims I am hurting their feelings by presenting data they do not agree with.
If these ideas hurt your mind, just ignore them. No one is making you believe in spirits, I am just reporting what has been found.

There are tens of thousands of people who have worked out ways to communicate effectively with the spiritual entities that surround them.
There are many books written on how to talk to your personal angels and how to recognize your spirit guides.
There are entire organizations working to raise awareness of the importance of working with our spiritual partners.

Google “spirit guides”, “angels”, “spiritual entities” and you will find more accurate information about these spiritual beings than most people could imagine.


The weak spot in much of this spirit guide literature is that the major attention is on the helpful spiritual entities who are willing to communicate
and help people and the handling of demonic entities is left to a priest or other professional.


Handlings for angry or demonic spirits are focused on driving them away. This is the approach used by the Catholic Church and the Church of Scientology.
Exorcists and Scientologists are both trying to drive “evil” entities away. The Vatican even has a department of Exorcism with a Head Exorcist.


You don't come here for a "discussion" on anything ... you come here to instruct, lecture, foot stamp and insult.

I believe it's your attitude that is being rejected even more than the (only) subject on which you post.
 

OldAuditor

Patron with Honors
Entities, never heard of them nor educated in them. NO, I don't need word clearing. LOL

Stay safe Billy.
What you don't know won't hurt you, until it impinges on you and wreaks havoc.

People start considering entities as a factor when everything else fails to provide a solution.

If you have solutions for all of your difficulties, you do not need to know about entities.
 

OldAuditor

Patron with Honors
Emphasis mine.

You don't come here for a "discussion" on anything ... you come here to instruct, lecture, foot stamp and insult.

I believe it's your attitude that is being so rejected.

I believe it is you that is stamping your feet. :)

If you are being insulted by data you do not accept, you are of course not willing to discuss it.
Even more telling, you do not want anyone else discussing it.
If my data offends you, look elsewhere for something you can accept.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation
I believe it is you that is stamping your feet. :)

If you are being insulted by data you do not accept, you are of course not willing to discuss it.
Even more telling, you do not want anyone else discussing it.
If my data offends you, look elsewhere for something you can accept.


Data? What data? Do you mean your opinions and thoughts?
 

strativarius

Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
I believe it is you that is stamping your feet. :)

If you are being insulted by data you do not accept, you are of course not willing to discuss it.
Even more telling, you do not want anyone else discussing it.
If my data offends you, look elsewhere for something you can accept.

I didn't want to get dragged back into this pointless discourse as life's too short, but hearing you talking about 'discussing' anything has prompted me. It's obvious you're not here to discuss anything but simply to peddle your worthless snake oil. I tried to 'discuss' some points with you and you simply evaded doing so. You have no credibility with me and I'm not responding to any more of your posts.
 
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F.Bullbait

Oh, a wise guy,eh?
I didn't want to get dragged back into this pointless discourse as life's too short, but hearing you talking about 'discussing' anything has prompted me. It's obvious you're not here to discuss anything but simply to peddle your worthless snake oil. I tried to 'discuss' some points with you and you simply evaded doing so. You have no credibility with me and I'm not responding to any more of your posts.


Talking about thetans and entities. 'Pointless' kinda defines those, no?

A pointless discourse, ha,ha.



:)
 
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Student of Trinity

Silver Meritorious Patron
Take some mundane task, like showering, and do it the same way every time. Soon some entity will take over the task, and lead you through the steps until you do it without putting any attention on it yourself. You'll wonder how you got to the end of the task without seemingly having done it.

But there's a downside to letting entities take over. You become less able yourself to get things done. You could be running on automatic, doing things you don't want to, or not being able to do things you do want to.

Identifying unconscious routines as 'entities taking over' seems like a very long jump to an extreme conclusion. I mean, sure, if I think about what it was like to finish washing my hair while thinking about something else, and I also try to imagine what it would be like to have some other entity take over my body to wash my hair, then I guess the two experiences might feel the same. But if you're using nothing more than this evidence to conclude that disembodied beings from outside me have really invaded my mind, then you're really not doing due diligence in considering other explanations that would also fit the observed facts. Buying the first explanation you encounter, without nearly enough shopping around, is a core component of gullibility.

In this case, I think it's also pointless. Automatic routines are really interesting, in their own right, whatever they are. Learning how to use them well, instead of being hurt by them, is a really great spiritual goal. Exactly what their ultimate mechanisms are — biochemical or theta — is not going to make any practical difference, unless you're at a level of OCD where you need medication. The mechanism of psychological fragmentation is a matter of physics, whether orthodox or unorthodox, not spirituality. It's a field for which not everyone is equipped. But do you even really want to go there at all? Who cares exactly what automatic routines are? How they work is surely more practical, and probably even more interesting.

One could even continue to use the term 'entities', as a metaphorical label, without any actual commitment to any particular theory about what exactly these things are. They may very well consist solely in complex self-stabilizing patterns of robust synaptic links among brain cells. Meat, if you want to insist; but if you insist on calling neuropsychology 'meat', then to be consistent you'll have to refer to every computer game or smartphone app as 'sand', because all those zillions of pixels per second are generated in stuff made of silicon. And you'll have to make a point of saying that all the written art and knowledge of human history is 'paper and ink'.

Nobody knows just how the pattern I identify as myself is related to my brain. If there is such a biological mechanism for consciousness, however, it seems unlikely that it only happens once per brain, and happens all-or-nothing every time. It seems entirely plausible that there may be many sub-patterns, probably less fully conscious than the main one, but which can react to outside stimuli, and influence the body, in parallel with the rest of my brain. Visual processing, for example, is an enormously complex module within brain operation. All kinds of instincts likely have their own subsystems within the brain. In fact it seems to be the default expectation of neuroscience that human minds really are bundles of many 'entities', with varying degrees of specialization and autonomy.

Habits and roles can become so strong that one might well use the metaphor not just of 'entities', but of outright possession. Are there ways of controlling such things, to break out of roles that one doesn't want, or strengthen habits one does? Can one inhibit damaging instincts, or develop useful new ones? Could there be disciplines of introspection or meditation, or anything else, that would help with those challenges?

To me those are excellent questions. And I can well believe that somebody who has spent many years studying them might have learned a few things about them. It's only the naive jumping to physiological conclusions, taking 'entities' literally upon very weak evidence, that deserves to be dismissed as gullibility. Staying agnostic and pragmatic about exactly what entities are, and admitting that you really don't know enough about neurobiology to discuss it one way or the other, is all it takes to make this whole 'entity' business highly respectable. If you stop pretending to know about things you don't know, intelligent people will listen gratefully to the things you really do know.
 

F.Bullbait

Oh, a wise guy,eh?
In general, the concept of suppression of sensation and of automaticities makes for a rich meditation.


It seems to me that assigning the function of automaticities to actual separate entities turns Scientology or at least early Scientology on its head.


The theory was that the individual created automaticities by walling off 'part' of their own theta. Separate entities were considered to be an illusion. There was nothing but one's own creations in this regard. There was just the appearance of separation in order for the automaticity to work without bothering the individual.







:)
 
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