ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



There is legally no such thing as the Sea Org

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Free to shine, Feb 26, 2015.

View Users: View Users
  1. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Great article from Jeffrey Augustine.

    http://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/02/26/the-sea-org-fact-or-fiction/
     
  2. Leland

    Leland Crusader

    I'm not exactly following this...and not trying to derail your thread....but this area interests me...

    From what I have read.....the Sea Org is an "unincorporated fraternal organization." I believe it is stated as such in the "modern techology defined" dictionary,....or somewhere in the dreck....

    And as far as I know.....they could be sued....

    This issue has come up before Courts before....and many thought unincorporated "associations" could not be sued, because they are not a "legal group" (legal identity)

    But things have changed.....and as far as I know, is would be possible to sue the Sea Org....

    http://www.uakron.edu/dotAsset/99e8eccf-0164-41a6-a00b-411eb674ef5f.pdf

    I don't think any Lawyer has named them as a defendant....and I am not a lawyer....but, it seem to me, legally they could be sued, if you wanted to do so....

    There is Law and precedence to do so...
     
  3. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I don't follow it all either ... that was the purpose of the complex religious cloaking, so almost no-one could.

    However that legal argument is recent, in Mosey's case. I'm hoping others can jump in and discuss. :)
     
  4. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    http://www.scientology.org/faq/church-management/what-is-the-sea-organization.html

    WHAT IS THE SEA ORGANIZATION?

    The Sea Organization is a religious order for the Scientology religion and is composed of the singularly most dedicated Scientologists—individuals who have committed their lives to the volunteer service of their religion. The Sea Organization is a fraternal religious order and is not incorporated. Members of the Sea Organization are therefore wholly responsible to the Church of Scientology to which they are assigned and are responsible, as are all other staff, to officers and directors of that Church.

    The Sea Organization was established in 1967 and once operated from a number of ships. It was formed to assist L. Ron Hubbard with advanced research operations and supervise Church organizations around the world. The Sea Organization is entrusted to minister the advanced services of Scientology.

    The Sea Organization retains its traditional name, although today the majority of its members are based on land. In keeping with the tradition of the order’s inception, however, they still wear maritime-style uniforms and have ranks and ratings.

    The Sea Organization Motor Vessel Freewinds is entirely staffed by members of the Sea Organization. Utilizing the training materials developed by L. Ron Hubbard in the early days of the Sea Organization, the Freewinds has the best safety and service record of any ship in the Caribbean.

    As volunteers and members of a religious order, Sea Organization members work long hours and live communally with housing, meals, uniforms, medical and dental care, transport and all expenses associated with their duties provided by the Church. They also receive an allowance to purchase personal items, as all of their other expenses are fully covered by the Church.

    Sea Organization members participate in Scientology training and auditing during a portion of each day, but otherwise dedicate themselves to furthering the objectives of Scientology through their particular functions.

    Positions in the Sea Organization are analogous to that of members of religious orders in other religions. They are at the forefront of spearheading the Church’s massive social mission, including the world’s largest nongovernmental drug education campaign, the largest human rights education campaign and many another global program that touches the lives of millions. Sea Organization members are acutely aware of the world in which they live, as their service is dedicated to helping Mankind. They do not live cloistered lives, but are very much a part of society.

    Today, some five thousand members of the Sea Organization hold staff positions in upper-level Scientology Church organizations around the world, ensuring the religion is available to the millions of Scientology parishioners who live and work outside the Church.

    I'll just quote the whole damn thing, captured two minutes ago. Feel free to screengrab the original page in case it disappears! I'm not going to attempt to make any legal argument, for or against.

    Paul
     
  5. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    More from the article quoted above: I really hope the Australian authorities look further into this as well.

     
  6. West Grinsted

    West Grinsted Patron

    The Mafia is an unincorporated fraternal organisation and so is the Hezbollah. That doesn't mean they can't be brought before a court. The problem here is particularly the tax exempt status of the cult. In Texas in the Rathbun case the judge said they were a business. They couldn't play it both ways, on one side the religious cloaking and on the other start hitting Marty on trademarks and licences. The only existing problem is the willingness to break the status quo and to get into a fight with a cult that can pay the best lawyers on Earth. The US Justice Department was granted a budget of 200 M for its criminal division in 2015 for the whole of its activities. The cult spent 20 or 30 million on Lisa's case but could afford to spend ten times more if needed. The times are changing though,because unlike Paulette Cooper who could have been killed, or unlike Russel Miller who did an excellent investigation on the true nature of the Barefaced Messiah but was very heavily harassed; apparently Lawrence Wright, Janet Raitman and now Alex Gibney have come unscathed by the writhing of the cult. That means that the media is not afraid anymore, that the cult is not fashionable in the least and that law men may think it is time some pulls out the mask they are wearing as a religious and non profit organisation. There are some cracks in the hull of the ship. David Miscavige wanted to avoid being deposed in the Rathbun case and so they admitted responsibility for the harassment of the squirrel busters and called "religious free speech". The twenty or twenty six fancy lawyers do an enormous effort in Texas to keep Miscavige out of trouble and all of a sudden we have the three zombies at Lax ranting at Rathbun. These things are known, they go viral on the Internet and judges follow more or less the trend of general society. The fraud case in Paris, upheld in appeal, upheld in the French Supreme Court in which CC Paris and Paris Org and a few key people were sentenced, these things pile up and we are not in the same situation we were even in 2007. There was also the decision in DK, in which the cult lost its non profit status also and the situation in Oz where it will be scrutinised for what it is "a business acting as a cult and parading as a religion". The game of law is tricky but the cult has abused its system too much and has totally ruined its reputation. Before people were afraid, now Scientology has become a subject for laughter. With 27 cases against Narconon, the Rathbun case in Texas, the Laura De Crescenzo case, the Garcia case, etc. Scientology has taken many hits and even if there hasn't been any decisive loss, its image has been marred to a point no body would believe anymore that it is a bona fide religion. Sooner or later the IRS will have to be concerned with this and Miscavige has been too irresponsible creating gaps that will pierce the corporate veil of its criminal organisation. If they start peeling off all the accounts then Hubbard's scheme in which if they shoot on the right side of the horse you are on the left side of the horse, and his whole alphabet soup of the corporate veil will fall to pieces and they'll lose the 501 c (3) status. I think the time is coming when US officials will think it is time to do something about it. When I found out about the Pattinson case I told myself Good Lord Mike is an artist, he doesn't know what he is getting into, when I head of the Headlys I thought the same thing even though they had both been staff at the Int base, but they are good warm lovely people, she was a top auditor, Marc is a super nice guy and I am maybe underestimating him but I don't think he had an idea of the dirty tricks the the ecclesiastical money laundering syndicate would play. Well now things are different because David Miscavige must be more and more paranoid and he risks more and more to be deposed and anyway, the Organisation is going down, It has been going down for at least twenty years. There is no expansion, it's shrinking and as Luciano Lugli and his pals put it, it is the fastest shrinking cult on Earth. If there is no expansion there is no money and they won't be able to hit the same whales for ever. The whales are useful idiots as Cruise, Travolta and Alley but they are not mentally retarded, one day they'll say that's enough. Well I think judges are starting to take that attitude. Enough is enough! and now there is enough evidence on the record that ;

    "Having a “Sea Org” allows the Church of Scientology to avoid employee lawsuits; the payment of minimum wage; overtime restrictions; and freedom from compliance with secular workplace standards. The Sea Org is the Church’s freedom from employee lawsuits arising from physical abuse, verbal abuse, psychological cruelty, forced abortions, and human trafficking. The Sea Org is a self-serving fiction that benefits only the Church of Scientology.

    The cynical and cruel exploitation of Sea Org members by the Church is horrible. Adding insult to injury, David Miscavige has — in order to save himself from being deposed in a lawsuit — openly disavowed the Sea Org in court, and on the record, through his attorney,

    This is the starting point of the final act. We had the "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" now we have the Rise and Fall of the Cult of Greed" and we are at the tipping point.
    I bid ye good night merry SPs on the fringes of the Internet!
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  7. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Moar paragraphs please. Extremely long walls of texts with no separation is hard to read.
     
  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Someone mentioned that posting via a proxy caused this inability to make new paragraphs.

    Paul
     
  9. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

  10. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    That might have been someone else, but I certainly have mentioned it here. When I first signed-up I was using my Ubuntu system with TOR and that was how my first posts looked.
     
  11. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    It is easy to fix, just hit the edit button and break it into paragraphs and click save and voila!