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Thomas Jefferson Quotes

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by TheSpectator, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. TheSpectator

    TheSpectator Patron with Honors

    This being Independence Day in the U.S. I was reflecting on our Founding Fathers and some of their wisdom. How apt these quotes from Thomas Jefferson are today!


    Quotations on the Jefferson Memorial

    "...I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." - Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush, September 23, 1800

    "Almighty God hath created the mind free. All attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens...are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion...No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship or ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion. I know but one code of morality for men whether acting singly or collectively."
  2. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Except slavery.
  3. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    Thom seems to have been a pretty good guy, but he is not a "founder" I recognize. I much prefer Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse.
  4. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader


    Purple, not cool. :no:

    Cynicism on America's big day of celebrating freedom? How rude. Would you cast the same shadows on Australia Day or the Queen's Birthday?

    And as long as you're playing negative cynic you might become aware of the fact that Jefferson was known for treating his slaves extremely well and was against slavery but did not feel it was in his power to change that.

    To all the Americans out there celebrating: Happy Independence Day! :happydance:
  5. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    It's cool, Sheila. How better to remind oneself that people often fail to live up to their own values - especially on a site dedicated to those who were snookered into doing things against their own values, often by being snared with their better impulses.

    I have no issues pointing out Jefferson's failure to live up to his own values that he expressed so eloquently and so well. He did himself realize he'd left a ticking time bomb in the Constitution, and it blew up in 1861, killing an incredible number of Americans.

    As long as it's also acknowledged that there were few in the European world at the time (and damn near none in the Orient) who even came close to living up to as many of his ideals as he himself did manage to do.
  6. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    Seriously? I deplore what was done to the Native Americans, and they should have been treated better, but some cultures are objectively better at advancing humankind than others. If their culture was still the predominant one world wide, we'd still be wiping our asses with leaves and blaming infectious disease on forest spirits and bad humors.

    Those two founded nothing. They built nothing. They invented nothing. They discovered no natural laws.

    They fought. They were great warriors. I respect that.

    But they have no legacy in the modern world.
  7. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Thanks Udarnik. Wise point.

    Thomas Jefferson did manage to stop international slave trading to/from America and blamed the existence of the trade itself on England's influence over the colonies.

    He wasn't a perfect man - but certainly one of America's better leaders.

  8. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    They are human beings and live here on this continent. Their freedom and beliefs were taken away by our forefathers to be replaced with the beliefs of another people's. "They built nothing, they invented nothing, they discovered no natural laws," tell me, was there a time frame they had to produce the validation of their humanity to others and they failed to produce? Are you in any position to judge what they contributed to their society and the growth thereof? Prove what your take on them is valid.
  9. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    He raped and impregnated a fourteen year old girl while he was married and he never freed a single one of his children. He talks about freedom of the mind when it was illegal for people he kept captive to read.

    So sorry. Not impressed. And I don't care if that is one of somebody's holy cows.

    There is a reason why a lot of people are against Australia Day, by the way. The Aboriginal people don't celebrate it at all.

    Edit: And treating his slaves extremely well?? How patronising! I'm sure he treated his dogs well, too. Did he ever sell their children to somebody else?
  10. TheSpectator

    TheSpectator Patron with Honors

    You know, ad hominem attacks on Thomas Jefferson don't detract from the quality of what he wrote - that everyone has their own free mind and choice. Is that what you critics are criticizing? Of course not. Just pathetic efforts to slight a great man.

    Today we in U.S. celebrate the signing of The Declaration of Independence which was drafted by Jefferson. A brilliant document which paved the way for the founding of this country.

    So for all you naysayers and and United States haters: You suck!

    Oops, that was an ad hominem attack, wasn't it? Sorry… :coolwink:
  11. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Links? Refs? Dox? Bullshit on most of it.

    Did you even read the link? Study history? Learn about the time period? READ about him from more than one source? or were you just spoonfed this info and didn't bother to look further for any value or comprehensive understanding?
    Facts: Jefferson was in a ten year LOVING relationship with Hemings, as evidenced by their letters. 14 was legal marital age in the south, still is in parts. Hemings was only 1/4 black. He freed the son, but not the others. Jefferson's earlier wife and children had all died and he apparently found it impossible to let go of his second family.

    He had flaws. So do you, so does everyone, but he ended the international slave trade in America which began the end of slavery.

    Find something positive to entertain yourself now, please.
  12. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Wow! You just justified slavery. Flaws? Rofl!! Maybe you should educate your conscience.
  13. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Sometimes you just don't think straight. :duh:

    Your response was just stupid.
  14. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    I do not find him credible. That is not ad hom.
  15. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    "He just COULDN'T let them go!!" If you love something, set it free, and all that.
  16. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    True. For me, for you, for anyone.

    So can you stop being the negative wet blanket already?
  17. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Inconvenient of me to bring up the fact that he sold other people's children never to be seen again I know. For personal profit. As abominable as slavery was... for everyone else.
  18. shanic89

    shanic89 Patron Meritorious

    I find statements of this kind in bold to be pathetic and bizarre. What this statement is attempting to do, is say either you love america or you hate it, in regard to a difference of opinion. There is no room for having your own free mind in such statements when used to defend a topic because supposedly if you disagree with the topic under discussion you hate America.
  19. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    I was there, big boy. And in this incarnation I have spirit-world exchanges with them. And, yes, you are quite abjectly uninformed and disinformed.
  20. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Purple, I really do not understand what you're on about.

    How can you focus on one man owning slaves when the entire society and most of the world considered this normal then? How can you judge him by today's standards?

    To have thought and wrote with such radical views as he did shook the foundations of slavery. That alone was a huge and brave act. Had he not done what he had, could Lincoln have done so?

    Did you really think it was completely within Jefferson's ability to abolish slavery altogether? Isn't that a bit simplistic for politics?

    Do you really not understand that society and people were very different then?

    You don't have to like Jefferson, but it would be nice if you'd let the Americans celebrate their day.