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Thomas Jefferson Quotes

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by TheSpectator, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. DoneDeal

    DoneDeal Patron Meritorious

    Get a fucking mirror. Weren't you one of those piece of shit scn'ists? If not what the fuck were you? Ever asked yourself that? I've had too.

    I believe that we might all add up to a whole and the final outcome might measure things. Note the word might.
  2. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader



    Freethinker, the rest about everyone being hypocrites, etc was just sarcasm on my part. Hyperbole. Showing how ridiculous it is to say everything a person did was worthless just because not everything he did was perfectly right, or to compare people's views on human rights then to now. Doesn't make sense.

    We've come a long way, baby. :yes:
  3. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    While I read the whole thread andit's progress the last days,
    without posting, I got fascinated and start reading about Jefferson. The more the debate was passionate the more I got interested.

    I am very weak in rhetoric and don't like to practice the sport - a decade of meditation kills any ability and tweaking of the mind in doing so. My intellect can't be that wise and fast. What I like is to read such debates and argumentation to get the extreme viewpoints and try to balance.

    But what I retained of my reading with many readings here and on the net is the following,
    as TAJ had put as a wonderfull essay - like the old sage would have done:


    He was a brilliant man who had the luxury of time to study the subjects he wished.

    But it was the fact that he owned, bought, and sold slaves that gave him that luxury and life-style.

    There is ample evidence that the moral crisis troubled him deeply. Some believe that the reason he stayed in Paris so long was because he couldn't face the moral dilemma.

    What I retain is that one have to know thougoughly the personnality, his life, accomplishments, flaws and dilemmas he faced , what environement, to make the best accurate judgement.

    Last year I read a biography about the man with the miraculous hands - the therapist of Himmler! It's a true story that shocked me. It has been confirmed to me by an old nun whom father had known SS and Nazis who help to save many jews.

    Anyway, I was amazed at how really was Himler and and his actions, many bad, few good.

    After Nuremberg, his secretary was sanctionned to a death penalty for crime against mankind and this man became a shame.
    The key person to allow thousands of concentration camps prisonners to be saved had been this guy.
    What had been retained in Nuremberg was that as Himler's secretary,
    he participated in coordination of deportation in concentration camps. The facts reported by kessler is that he only kept holding this position to save people. History had retained only one view. not the whole situation.

    I recommand to read this book. You will be fascinated by the ops that were run behind the doors , in the nazis closets. Fascinating!

    Anyway, thanks for this thread, I'll am sold to get some Jefferson biographies at the librairy.

    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  4. Well put.

    Don't worry, your rational thinking and reserving judgment trumps anyone's rhetoric every time.

    And thanks for the reference, I will check it out.


    The Anabaptist Jacques
  5. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Nice! :wink2:
    (rational ? may be- sometimes -
    but my song is
    [STRIKE]Ebony - Ivory -[/STRIKE] Irony - parody live in a perfect harmony ) :biggrin:

    You shall come back more often for me to talk with you again! :yes:
    So we will keep our brain in the best shape as possible. :)
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  6. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    I detect discrimination against rational rhetoric!
  7. But not any against alliterations!

    The Anabaptist Jacques
  8. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Slavery in the United States

    Skip down to "Colonial America" section




    Sorry to digress to answer.
    Yes, a Thomas Jefferson topic should not be all about slavery issues.
  9. Just remember though, that one has to be careful when using Wikipedia for history.

    It is sometimes inaccurate.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
  10. lotus

    lotus stubborn rebel sheep!

    Re: Wikipedia

    If one has a contributor account, it worth to read the debates about the contributions - what had been added - retained - require more accuracy or facts.
    It is sometimes more enlighting than the article itself!

  11. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Yeah, I know.
    It's like using snopes to debunk everything... snopes is not always 100% correct.
  12. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Very interesting. How does it relate to my question? Are you saying that Jefferson's "Slaves" were actually indentured workers?
  13. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    No. I am asking where is the difference in real "day-to-day" life.
  14. I'm not following you guys.

    I missed seeing the original slaves in quotation marks.

    So these two posts have lost me.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
  15. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    I guess life as an indentured servant would be shitty, but it was for a specified period. After that they could have more choices about work, pay etc.

    "...Most laborers came from Britain as indentured servants, who signed contracts of indenture to pay with work for their passage, their upkeep and training, usually on a farm, as the colonies were highly agricultural. These indentured servants were young people who intended to become permanent residents... "

    Some got a "get out of imprisonment card"
    "..Some masters treated them as well or as poorly as family members. In some cases, convicted criminals were transported to the colonies as indentured servants, rather than being imprisoned..."
    Whereas slaves were imprisoned for life.

    "...The planters found that the major problem with indentured servants was that many left after several years, just when they had become skilled and the most valuable workers...."

    So they were presumably able to use their experience to better their conditions, since workers were in short supply.

    Etc......There is much less need to treat the labourers well, if they can never leave.
  16. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Programmer Guy seems to think that a slave's day to day life was really not very different from that of an indentured worker, if I read him correctly.
  17. OK, thanks.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
  18. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    These religion-infested Europeans came onto this continent loaded with criminal intent. Intent to kill, wipe out, commit genocide upon the native people who they saw did not have weapons which could kill as effectively as their own. Yeah, yeah, there were a few honest folks here and there. Thank gawhde there are always a few honest folks around regardless of the riff raff criminals which surround them. Jefferson was a land-grabber, a goddamn thief. At least he was inching out of the slavery mode, but not very rapidly. The purpose of life is to live it in such a manner that when one graduates from incarnation, one enters a higher level of spiritual consciousness than before one incarnated. If Thom accomplished this, his life was a success. Anything else he did was temporal. If his work in that incarnation helped others to successfully graduate from incarnate life, good on 'im, and he has my gratitude and thanks. But if not, then fuck 'im. He'll have to come around again...probably as a clerk at Goldman-Sachs.
  19. But we should all have some concern for the temporal, otherwise the criminals will rule the earth.

    I know you'll going to say "They already do."

    But I see it this way: The meek have inherited the earth, it's just that they've hired a lot of tough guys to run it for them.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
  20. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    As far as the Native Americans were concerned, the ones who did well were the ones who became just plain Americans. The ones who got an education, got a regular job off the "reservation", and integrated themselves into the mainstream culture.

    The ones who just sat around on the reservation collecting welfare did not do well.