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Thomas Jefferson Quotes

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by TheSpectator, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    If voting could actually change anything, it would be illegal.

    Anything that people vote in favor of, can be overturned by some judge who decides it's improper.
  2. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    In much of the world, men don't have such an idyllic time of it either.

    There are studies that indicate that more men are violently raped than women. Since the vast majority of those rapes occur inside prisons, not many people care.

    As far as salaries, saying the average pay for women is less than the average pay for men may be true, but it's deceptive. Women earn the same as men, perhaps a little more, when you compare people working the EXACT same job, for the same hours, in the exact same number of uninterrupted years of experience.

    Where do the discrepancies come from? Women tend to prefer working at the safer and more comfortable jobs. Women are more likely to work fewer hours per week, and less likely to be willing to work overtime. Men are more willing to work dangerous, uncomfortable, and inconvenient jobs (which pay more). The jobs with the highest rates of job-related fatalities (construction, mining, truck driving, night shift at gas stations/store in high-crime areas, etc) are held predominantly by men. Men account for 92% of all workplace fatalities.

    Men are three times more likely to be murdered than women.

    And lets not forget that, in war, it's the men who do almost all of the fighting and dying.
  3. How men and women are treated depends on the culture.

    In Asia, women walk three feet behind the men.

    In Europe, women walk next to the men.

    In America, women walk all over the men!

    The Anabaptist Jacques
  4. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    The bit about "the meek shall inherit the earth" seems to suffer from a bit of mis-translation. Today, "meek" is a synonym for "weak and unassertive". In the Bible, Moses was described as "very meek, more than all people who were on the face of the earth". Yet Moses, when he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew slave, killed the Egyptian on the spot. Jesus was also described as meek, yet Jesus whipped the money changers out of the Temple.

    A better way of looking at the word translated as "meek", is a person who has his temper under control, who is not gratuitously violent, aggressive, and blustering. Sort of like the characters John Wayne would play in the movies.
  5. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    Some that are not close to graduation might never come to realize that they're entire lifetime. They may see the way to success as land grabbing and taking advantage of others for personal gain. There will always be those obstacles because those are the teaching tools of the here and now. Sifting through all the chaos can be a real pain in the ass.
  6. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Well, Mystic, there is some truth to that, but it didn't start out that way with the early pilgrims. Those guys were mostly persecuted in England for religious beliefs and were hard workers who never wanted a fight with the natives. They mostly kept to themselves, wanting nothing more than a bit of land to grow things and enough food to live. They weren't greedy or violent. They worked together with native tribes whenever possible, and truly loved and respected the land and nature, trading with the friendlier tribes just as the French had done for hundreds of years. They had severe hardships and survived. They were okay.

    Christopher Columbus made a pact with the devil when he got his loan from England and then it was just a matter of time before the fun and games began.

    Did England run ads about America? Something like that. Next came greedy fur traders, prospectors, England's militia, and America's own to match England. Ahhh Manifest Destiny. As if! Everyone made a grab, all worried they'd miss out on the wealth - Mexico, France and England all fighting over territorial rights, with the new Americans getting organized to fight them off themselves. And they did.

    Suddenly there was competition and a mad rush for power and land. War and fighting everywhere.

    How was England's record with natives? Same as everywhere else. Kill 'em if needed, but we're taking over. Get them out of the way, whatever it takes. The new Americans were English. Most never shook that view of natives.

    When greed entered the picture, some tribes got greedy as well, selling more and more furs and gems for guns, spices, whatever, and also grabbing territory from other tribes that had previously cohabitated fairly peacefully.

    Not all. Some tribes had a long legacy of violence, like the Aztecs, and they didn't miss out on trying to expand their territory, either.

    STILL -

    There were, as ever, the unsung heroes. They didn't make it in the history books.

    They never do.

    When I see all the Anonymous protestors worldwide against human rights abuses, when I hear the thousands of stories of people who secretly saved Jews and others, I get a much better idea of their numbers.

    Thousands of people were there, unnoticed and unmentioned, hiding others that should have been their enemies, binding their wounds, stitching them up, sheltering them, feeding them and saving their lives.

    Greed may be human nature, but so is compassion. We can't necessarily stop a war...

    ..or can we?
  7. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    One way of looking at the tradition of the man walking three feet ahead is to emphasize the woman's subservience.

    Another way of looking at it, is the man is walking on point, prepared to deal with any hostile characters he may meet, and the woman walks three feet behind so she won't get in the way of his sword if he needs to defend her, and to allow her more opportunity to run.

    Adopt whichever viewpoint which most pleases you.
  8. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Enthetan. Do I detect a tiny element of cynicism in your post? Just the minutest fraction of an inkling that you are in some way dissatisfied with the status-quo?

    Edit: They are purely hypothetical Q's, you don't have to go on a major rant unless you really want to. :)
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  9. strativarius

    strativarius Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband

    Here's a little tune I think ya might like...
  10. not quite...

    women's suffrage passed in, if i recall, 1920

    indigenous men and women weren't given citizenship until 1924...
  11. AngeloV

    AngeloV Gold Meritorious Patron

    False. I don't know where you got that information from but here is data from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics that contradicts your statement: BLS Data

    Further, here is an report that shows that women make less than men in their first year after graduating, even when factors such as schools, grades, majors, and others are taken into account: Graduates pay gap.

    Historic Footnote: Up until at least the 1980's Australia had separate minimum wages for men and women. Guess whose was less.
  12. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Under the Equal Pay Act of 1963, employers can be sued if they pay women

    less than the rate at which he pays wages to employees of the opposite sex in such establishment for equal work on jobs[,] the performance of which requires equal skill, effort, and responsibility, and which are performed under similar working conditions, except where such payment is made pursuant to (i) a seniority system; (ii) a merit system; (iii) a system which measures earnings by quantity or quality of production; or (iv) a differential based on any other factor other than sex [ . . . . ]

    It's ALREADY the law, and has been for over 50 years. Thus, employers who want to avoid costly lawsuits have to be meticulous in ensuring that no woman employee makes less than a man working the same job under the same conditions, and that no woman employee can even make a plausible case that she is making less than a man doing a closely similar job.

    Where there are differences in pay, it most likely has to do with relative preferences in shift (night versus day), hours (part-time, full-time, overtime), location (safe versus hazardous), etc.

    ADDING: Any business which could get the exact same work out of a woman for 23% less than what they would have to pay a man, would have an incentive to only hire women. A company whose labor costs were 23% lower than competitors would drive those competitors out of business.
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2014
  13. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    A Shakespearean comment on manlaw:

    The evil that men do lives after them.
  14. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    A lot of industries are fair now, but many aren't. It's not hard to tweak the system for the good ol' boy network, which is still thriving, relatively uncracked, operating nearly the same as it did 100 years ago for some of the most lucrative and powerful industries. Not just prejudice against women and minorities, but against men not associated with the "right" families, the "correct" schools or otherwise not part of the inner circle. This isn't conspiracy theory, it's a fact.

    Banking management and the stock exchange are two such industries. BIG corporate accounting is another. Those industries have a system where the most valuable information or lucrative clients can be tossed to favoured employees, while the less favoured are sent chasing their tails after bogus leads. Oh, there's a few odd women here and there, but very few.

    Hospitals and the higher echelons of the medical field can and do also discriminate, esp in the south. Who are the highest paid surgeons and anaesthesiologists? Why? Women that go into surgery have a physical advantage - smaller, more precise hands. Their pay doesn't reflect their equal skills (look at the most highly paid, rather than the industry mandated scales), and they're not going to risk being blackballed from practicing anywhere else by suing the hospital, so this often goes unreported.

    I know an anonymous woman surgeon who was given mandatory night rotations 4x beyond what was required of other staff for 3 months (Getting up in the middle of the night several times for emergencies under her base salary while also working a gruelling day shift) as punishment for verbally reporting discrimination at an Alabama hospital. She was silenced. She didn't want to risk her patients or reputation and driving a surgeon to that level of exhaustion was dangerous.

    In the 90s I worked for three senior partners at a top 20 accounting firm in Chicago. One of my duties was to run messages to and from The Chicago Stock Exchange. I saw a lot. It was not only 95% white men on the floor, the few women there were openly verbally abused, even screamed at, and the sexual comments to and about women would make a truck driver blush.

    The accounting firm itself only promoted men to senior partner and had only one female junior partner. She had to completely fend for herself, the men kept all the good leads in their circle - sharing with a male junior partner, though, who was one of the boys so ear-tagged for promotion to their circle.

    Still, as the old misogynist dinosaurs literally die out, even these industries are slowly improving. They've just got a long way to go.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  15. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    I had to research that just now.

    You're right about 1920 for women's suffrage and 1924 for the granting of citizenship for native Americans, but the 15th Amendment was passed in 1870, which gave all races equal voting rights (though black Americans were still facing opposition at the polling booths). Also, voting was a state by state right, so many native Americans were still denied voting rights in certain states.

    The 19th amendment, which gave women the right to vote, was ratified in 1920 - a full 50 years later.'s_suffrage#United_States
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  16. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Thanks but my question was to Sheila about women acquiring the right to vote. She said it did change things for the better.

  17. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I can see some circles of men not wanting women around. Back in my early 20's (more decades ago than I care to admit to), I was working for a small outfit. We were mostly young guys, other than the president (who was in his 30's). As young guys often are, we were lewd, crude, and rude with each other. We were also working long hours, and we mostly hung out with each other. There was a lot of comradery. The environment would have been upsetting to modern HR people. I had a large poster of Heather Locklear hung up on the inside of my office door (where it would be out of view when the door was open). We had one woman, the secretary/receptionist, but she had a lot of tolerance for our antics, and we weren't around her much anyway.

    Then the company hired a middle-aged woman to be part of our team. Suddenly we had to avoid offending her, tone down our behavior, and generally watch ourselves. We had to conduct ourselves in a "more professional" manner, because she would complain if we used bad language around her. The girlie posters had to go. I'm sure she thought she was doing us good, getting us to clean up our act.

    But personally, at the time I would have preferred it if she hadn't been hired.

    I'm older and mellower now, though.
  18. freethinker

    freethinker Sponsor

    Judges are not allowed to involve themselves in Political Questions . Google Political Questions in the law. That would be legislating from the bench. They do do that but it isn't lawful.

  19. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

  20. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    Yeh, you're pretty cool these days. :thumbsup:

    Lots of women have been over-the-top on sexual harassment, too, which really hurt the women's rights cause.

    Yeh! Did you read the whole thing? Skip down to Biography. Susan B. Anthony's entire family was amazing, including her parents and six siblings. They really rocked society and changed the status quo.

    What made them so special, so different, so resolute, effective and motivated is the best part. Their father:

    Enforced disconnection over religious beliefs was what sparked them off to cause incredible social change.

    Hmmm....disconnection...where have I heard that before? :coolwink:

    The parallels... ya just gotta laugh. You can't make this shit up. Scns don't study real history, so of course they'd make the same mistake with us. :devil:

    Check it out - the Anthonys even had their own exQuaker activist group!! :happydance: Just like us here now at exscn! :dance2:Their humble activist beginnings were as... QUAKER SQUIRRELS! :squirrel:

    Thanks for bringing her up, Cat's Squirrel - now I'm REALLY motivated! :buzzin:
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014