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"To become OT you need to BE OT"

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
There is this line from LRH that "To become OT you need to BE OT."

Also, it's his definition of a Sea Org Member ("Sea Org Member is the cause over Matter, Energy, Space, Time and Life") no matter where on "the Bridge" he is.

Thinking over these statements now, i get the idea that following Scientology's Bridge one just goes full circle and ends up with the same himself he started with.

Compare:
"to become a cook you need to BE a cook"
"to become Buddha you need to BE Buddha"

Opinions?
 

Arthur Dent

Silver Meritorious Patron
Or it was a big clue that you don't "need" the bridge to begin with as you can just "be" OT. Geez, that would have saved a lot of people a lot of money!

I always felt sorry for sea org members, years in, who never made it up the bridge. Wasn't that the point of it all? Then I would see financially independent sea org members buying their own auditing. They had a very generous, gracious and noble idea of exchange. Hopefully, if they really made it to OT, they are already on this board!
 

Good twin

Floater
The things I was able to pull off as a staff member always seemed more OT than any of the Bridge OTs I came in contact with. Very rarely I would meet one who slightly impressed me.

I felt like I was experiencing miracles regularly by acheive impossible targets and constantly making it go right in the face of nearly overwhelming opposition. It was quite addicting and it almost ruined my endocrine system. There was a weird constant euphoria that I wasn't willing to give up.

BUT my faith in the "Bridge" began to falter pretty early on as I saw OTs who really didn't seem to have a clue or any ability to speak of. Through the years I created my own truth about Scientology without realizing it. Because of my own "wins" I knew Scientology worked, but obviously not the same for everyone.

This goes back to the theta endowment theory that has been tossed around on this board from time to time. I've come to realize this is just crap also. I now believe that if you stay in the Scientology bubble long enough you will become an egotistical idiot. That's what the bridge and all the other ethics tech and admin is designed to do. The highest state of OT in Scientology is the state of knowing that you are superior to all other identities on earth and loving all those other identities anyway.

We ALL have amazing abilities that may not ever be explained completely. You don't have to read a book or practice some mental gymnastics to discover your spiritual gifts. You just have to accept yourself and allow yourself to be who you already are.

Or not. Every individual on earth is amazing and miraculous. I learn so much from you all here and everyone I meet. I've grown more since leaving the Scientology hamster wheel two and a half years ago than the entire thirty two years I was in. But the time I spent in Scientology was part of my journey.

It's totally okay to burn that bridge behind us now.
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
Brings me to this point: It's all in the state of mind. It's always been and will always be.

"The Bridge to total OT" is dangerous to own state of mind. PCs and Pre-OTs tend to give responsibility over to "the specialists" assuming "*I* don't know what's wrong with me and *they* know."
*They* control your state of mind. Not *you* any longer.

Sensible alternative to "the Bridge" is to stop thinking of oneself in a negative direction (questioning oneself and others as to "What's wrong with me? How I can be always right and all-powerfull?" and instead of it develop within oneself positive attitude towards oneself (as you ARE), people (as they ARE) and life (as it IS). And not let anyone mess with them further.

Life is as good as one can muster up his "attention units" towards positive things around at present and on one's mind in the future.

Interesting note: Hubbard said that (paraphrased) "psychotic thinks about the past, neurotic about present, and only sane person about the future". The fact is that he was messing with his own case (past) and other people's cases all his life. Along the way he created "the Bridge" - which, I see it now, endless path of making people to look into their past and seek "answers to current and future life" there.
Reports are that some upper level Scn-ists eventually went psychotic (suicidal or insane) like Rex Fowler, or others.
It tells something about Hubbard's own level of sanity (as per reports of witnesses from his days), doesn't it?
IMHO
 

Minuet #1 in G

Patron with Honors
The things I was able to pull off as a staff member always seemed more OT than any of the Bridge OTs I came in contact with. Very rarely I would meet one who slightly impressed me.

I felt like I was experiencing miracles regularly by acheive impossible targets and constantly making it go right in the face of nearly overwhelming opposition. It was quite addicting and it almost ruined my endocrine system. There was a weird constant euphoria that I wasn't willing to give up.

BUT my faith in the "Bridge" began to falter pretty early on as I saw OTs who really didn't seem to have a clue or any ability to speak of. Through the years I created my own truth about Scientology without realizing it. Because of my own "wins" I knew Scientology worked, but obviously not the same for everyone.

This goes back to the theta endowment theory that has been tossed around on this board from time to time. I've come to realize this is just crap also. I now believe that if you stay in the Scientology bubble long enough you will become an egotistical idiot. That's what the bridge and all the other ethics tech and admin is designed to do. The highest state of OT in Scientology is the state of knowing that you are superior to all other identities on earth and loving all those other identities anyway.

We ALL have amazing abilities that may not ever be explained completely. You don't have to read a book or practice some mental gymnastics to discover your spiritual gifts. You just have to accept yourself and allow yourself to be who you already are.

Or not. Every individual on earth is amazing and miraculous. I learn so much from you all here and everyone I meet. I've grown more since leaving the Scientology hamster wheel two and a half years ago than the entire thirty two years I was in. But the time I spent in Scientology was part of my journey.

It's totally okay to burn that bridge behind us now.

This is consistent with my experience too. Having a high necessity level created by demand and what we thought was at stake prompted extraordinary efforts. But at a cost. The constant stimulation of this fear response made it a conditioned and habitual reaction. Takes a long long time and a quiet and sane environment to break out of this if this can happen at all. This is not OT, it is just the response you have when your survival is threatened.
 

juicycef

Patron
I always thought that this was a strange concept. To make something go right means to be OT, apparently. So, you must make things go right to get to the org - disagree with the wog "trap" if you will in order to then be able to make things go right. Its like needing to drive the car to the driving school.

I've made a lot of a things go right so far in life - so I guess I'm OT already.

Its actually a bit sad because my father doesn't have a pot to piss in financially. He makes decent money, but what comes in goes out right away. He is pushing 60 now and claims with a smile that he'll never retire, while working his fingers to the bone day in and day out. Meanwhile, a couple of his younger siblings are vacationing around the country and enjoying life and are basically retired. Not saying there isn't something admirable in the desire to keep working, but I believe his decision is a justified approach to a necessity.

The former takes life very seriously while the latter folks seem to have more fun. So who is really more free? But, I guess I'm just stuck in the R6 trap and can't see out. My bad.

My father won't even come stay at my house overnight because of his OT materials he must lug with him. Apparently you cannot leave them overnight, regardless of how locked down and alarmed up they are. I can say without ANY reservation that if he brought his materials to my house, I wouldn't touch them. He knows that and I know that. Yet, it is a HIGH CRIME to trust anyone who is not on the level or past it. These rules do nothing but to artificially inflate the perceived value of those materials in the eyes of the user. All that stuff is available with a well aimed Google search. Furthermore, History of Man somehow made it out as a public book - can't imagine you can get more left field than that - speaking of "out-R".
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Wow

The things I was able to pull off as a staff member always seemed more OT than any of the Bridge OTs I came in contact with. Very rarely I would meet one who slightly impressed me.

I felt like I was experiencing miracles regularly by acheive impossible targets and constantly making it go right in the face of nearly overwhelming opposition. It was quite addicting and it almost ruined my endocrine system. There was a weird constant euphoria that I wasn't willing to give up.

BUT my faith in the "Bridge" began to falter pretty early on as I saw OTs who really didn't seem to have a clue or any ability to speak of. Through the years I created my own truth about Scientology without realizing it. Because of my own "wins" I knew Scientology worked, but obviously not the same for everyone.

This goes back to the theta endowment theory that has been tossed around on this board from time to time. I've come to realize this is just crap also. I now believe that if you stay in the Scientology bubble long enough you will become an egotistical idiot. That's what the bridge and all the other ethics tech and admin is designed to do. The highest state of OT in Scientology is the state of knowing that you are superior to all other identities on earth and loving all those other identities anyway.

We ALL have amazing abilities that may not ever be explained completely. You don't have to read a book or practice some mental gymnastics to discover your spiritual gifts. You just have to accept yourself and allow yourself to be who you already are.

Or not. Every individual on earth is amazing and miraculous. I learn so much from you all here and everyone I meet. I've grown more since leaving the Scientology hamster wheel two and a half years ago than the entire thirty two years I was in. But the time I spent in Scientology was part of my journey.

It's totally okay to burn that bridge behind us now.

You could be an exit counselor - this is deep understanding of the process.
Ever consider doing counseling for those exiting cults? You'd be great at it. :thumbsup:
 

Rene Descartes

Gold Meritorious Patron
While inside the Church has anyone else ever had the idea somewhere along the way that they "made it go right *DESPITE* Scientology".

Seriously there were times when I felt that being part of the Church was more of a hinderance than a help and the Church was acting as the "counter-intention" to me getting things done.

And speaking of OT one the first big betrayals I ever felt was when that LRHED RJ35 From Clear to Eternity came out in May 1982 and Ron called the OT levels up to NOTs "pre-OT" levels and that actual OT level begin with New OT 8. I thought this was a real kick in the face too all those who had attained such a "lofty" state of existence.

I am amazed that I was able to continue on for another 6 years within the Church after that ED came out.

And then after I was out and I heard about the retraining being required for all of the highly trained auditors that to me was more invalidation towards individuals who did not deserve such as that.

I guess the idea becomes something like "if you can't find new suckers apply more suckage to those who you preyed upon before".

Rd00
 

GoNuclear

Gold Meritorious Patron
being oatee

Being oatee?

public oatee = getting the exorbitant sums of cash together via begging from relatives, selling your house, going into debt up to your eyeballs and turning it over to Cof$

staff oatee = finding anyway possible to get your stats up by Thursday afternoon at 2 pm, and, then after doing all of the long term destructive things for that short term stat push, have someone else to toss under the bus to take the heat/get sent to the RPF gulag

Pete
 

Good twin

Floater
You could be an exit counselor - this is deep understanding of the process.
Ever consider doing counseling for those exiting cults? You'd be great at it. :thumbsup:

Kind of you to say Lurker5. I've considered many opportunities since leaving the cult. I'm still a work in progress. For now, I'm available to you guys. :)
 

GreyWolf

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yup. I even sometimes think of us that way:

To become an ex-scientologist you have to be an ex-scientologist.
 

Smilla

Ordinary Human
The things I was able to pull off as a staff member always seemed more OT than any of the Bridge OTs I came in contact with. Very rarely I would meet one who slightly impressed me.

I felt like I was experiencing miracles regularly by acheive impossible targets and constantly making it go right in the face of nearly overwhelming opposition. It was quite addicting and it almost ruined my endocrine system. There was a weird constant euphoria that I wasn't willing to give up.

BUT my faith in the "Bridge" began to falter pretty early on as I saw OTs who really didn't seem to have a clue or any ability to speak of. Through the years I created my own truth about Scientology without realizing it. Because of my own "wins" I knew Scientology worked, but obviously not the same for everyone.

This goes back to the theta endowment theory that has been tossed around on this board from time to time. I've come to realize this is just crap also. I now believe that if you stay in the Scientology bubble long enough you will become an egotistical idiot. That's what the bridge and all the other ethics tech and admin is designed to do. The highest state of OT in Scientology is the state of knowing that you are superior to all other identities on earth and loving all those other identities anyway.

We ALL have amazing abilities that may not ever be explained completely. You don't have to read a book or practice some mental gymnastics to discover your spiritual gifts. You just have to accept yourself and allow yourself to be who you already are.

Or not. Every individual on earth is amazing and miraculous. I learn so much from you all here and everyone I meet. I've grown more since leaving the Scientology hamster wheel two and a half years ago than the entire thirty two years I was in. But the time I spent in Scientology was part of my journey.

It's totally okay to burn that bridge behind us now.

Fantastic post. Many thanks :)
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks, folks, for your cool and enlightening responses.

Yet, I got wondering now - was is just me who took it as "the stable datum" (that "to become OT you need to BE one") or was it common?!

To me, while in SO, and ever after, - up until now, to me it's been a practical datum.
My "figure-figure" was that I would have continuously have what I had sporadically.

In fact, I wasn't thinking of "the Bridge" to the degree that it would make me better than I was during my best times.
I just didn't have a clue as to what could be better than my best moments in life. (the only thing that I had was that "the state of OT" would make me ME - perfect as I had been) :blush:

Was it different to you, folks?
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yup. I even sometimes think of us that way:

To become an ex-scientologist you have to be an ex-scientologist.

Cool!

I'd say that:
To become a "Wog" (according to $cn) you have to be a Human Being.
(Both in $cn are the same: Wog = non-scientologist=Human Being)
:yes:
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanslation: We have nothing to offer you, but for $300,000 or so, We can convince you that We gave you what you already had.

That's what Hubbard offered: pay the sum of ... to be yourself. And we WILL help you to be yourself again.

Sorry for cognitive dissonance. :eyeroll:
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
<snip> Yet, I got wondering now - was is just me who took it as "the stable datum" (that "to become OT you need to BE one") or was it common?! <snip>
Nope.. This was a 'datum' in my time in the Guardian's Office, 1979-'81 too.

It is an extention of 'no case on post' anyway..

Made me think: WTF do we need the tech for then?

:duh:
 

VaD

Gold Meritorious Patron
While inside the Church has anyone else ever had the idea somewhere along the way that they "made it go right *DESPITE* Scientology".

Seriously there were times when I felt that being part of the Church was more of a hinderance than a help and the Church was acting as the "counter-intention" to me getting things done.

And speaking of OT one the first big betrayals I ever felt was when that LRHED RJ35 From Clear to Eternity came out in May 1982 and Ron called the OT levels up to NOTs "pre-OT" levels and that actual OT level begin with New OT 8. I thought this was a real kick in the face too all those who had attained such a "lofty" state of existence.

I am amazed that I was able to continue on for another 6 years within the Church after that ED came out.

And then after I was out and I heard about the retraining being required for all of the highly trained auditors that to me was more invalidation towards individuals who did not deserve such as that.

I guess the idea becomes something like "if you can't find new suckers apply more suckage to those who you preyed upon before".

Rd00

The fact is that the only way to deal with life is being oneself.
$cientology has given me many "the Answers".
But to deal with people and life, i had to use me, and not some entity or identity that I was in $cn. (I'm talking here about my experience of being an S.O. member in LA driving around LA and meeting "wogs" who were dealing with Gold just because Gold paid them).

Cool part is to stay yourself with them! (be it a business partner, a boss, or a random passerby..). I learned from S.O. and from some good people there not to be a pawn in someone else's games).
I had a good environment in S.O. :yes::yes::yes:
 

Ulf K. Maier

Patron Meritorious
Wow

You mean... I was just mocking up NOT being OT?

PMSL :dieslaughing:

[Isn't this the end phenomenon to the heretofore unreleased OT XV?]
 
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