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To FZ'ers/Indies/ProScientologists

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Sindy, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. Mystic

    Mystic Crusader

    If you're going to be that way, then kisses all over you and all in the right places.
  2. Life Repair

    Life Repair was the MOST rewarding level to audit and C/S in the early 70's in London. As a Cl.IV C/S I was free to use any process I thought appropriate for the PC at that beginning level, including all the processes in Creation of Human Ability (CoHA), PABs and 8-80!

    Years later I found out that CoHA was the core of the original OT levels above III. Oops. Especially old OT VII which is fully laid out in CoHA.

    We had incredible wins on this stuff with acolyte PCs fresh off the street, it was exhilarating all around. Exteriorization? Oh yeah. We were having a ball.

    Then the hammer dropped.

  3. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I have gotten rid of most of my Scn books, but I kept Creation of Human Ability. "Route 1" is the the bomb! Be three feet in back of your head and then do the "Grand Tour". Yep, it was common knowledge many years ago that the old "heavy duty" OT levels (sadly, which nobody apparently could ever really do) were based on Route 1 from COHA. That stuff in COHA is what hooked me. I wanted THAT! THAT was my "carrot". :yes:

    I did know a few people who did that stuff back in the 70s, and they were VERY disappointed. I suppose that IMAGINING that you are doing the Grand Tour, is quite different that actually BEING FULLY EXTERIOR with FULL PERCEPTION and MOBILITY, and following all of those commands. :confused2:

    I still have some slight hope that such things might be possible, but probably not from Scientology. And also, things like "advanced abilities (no matter how gained or from what set of practices) have lost importance for me as being "spiritually valuable", especially when compared to other things one can "practice" such as "compassion", "love", "being in the present", "non-resistance", etc. All of this "make me a SUPER THETAN" stuff gets so - well, just lame. It is mostly a case of some flawed ego wanting to be a "super" (flawed) ego.

    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  4. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Things such as creation of human ability, OT levels, whatever other levels,
    are re auditing specifically for the first dynamic. If receiving them.

    In theory such matters increase awareness and activity on other dynamics.

    Thus awareness and activity re compassion and love may often be enhanced.
  5. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Was this the inspiration for Route 1?:
  6. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I sort of doubt it. Yes, there is a similarity, but when it comes to advanced abilities, the term "yoga" is far too general. I suspect that the "tech" of Tibetan Buddhism may be very detailed, and specific, about all sorts of interesting abilities, but like with so many "secret societies", this stuff is generally only given out to a neophyte who proves to have a "pure heart".

    There are MANY types and practices of Yoga. It is a very large subject, of which the west still knows very little.

    Having read way too much eastern philosophy and stories about yogis and such over far too many years, there are many stories about "leaving the body" and consciously moving around and visiting other places. I have no idea how much non-fiction might reside in all of the fiction.

    Rampa books talk about how he, as a child, had his "third eye" opened through a group ritual with some "advanced yogis", and they took him on a trip (entirely out of body) all throughout the galaxy, with extensive details of other far away places. Of course, it could have been all fiction. And I have read the debunking about Rampa.

    There are many versions of "astral travel", and some "how to do it" books provide various "exercises" to develop the ability to "leave at will", and gain control over where you "view from" out of the body. I never did any, so again, just more stories.

    I think Hubbard may have been partially entertaining "possibilities". If it were true that a person was basically a spirit, who could be separated from the body (and mind), well then how might a person develop these abilities? I think Hubbard often crossed the boundaries between fiction anf non-fiction, and confused far out ideas/ideals with attainable ideas/ideals.

    Scientology operates from the IDEAL that THIS is so - that we are each fundamentally a spirit, an INDIVIDUAL spirit, which can be separated from the mind and body. This separation seems to be not anywhere as easy as Hubbard may have originally imagined. And, in the end he may have incorrectly identified the basic IDEAL in this area entirely.

    That would mean that almost the enitre subject was founded on an ideal, that receives far too much of an exagerrated amount of importance.

    Instead of conceiving yourself as an entity that can EXPAND and GROW OUT into the environment, taking on more power, control and responsibility, conceive of yourself as something that surrenders "self" to the glorious beauty and awe of this IMMENSE creation, that you will forever and always only be a TINY part of. The idea is wrong. It isn't for you to "get large" and take over it, but for you to "become small", and reconnect up with THAT which you always were - an integral part of the mind and soul of the Universe.

    Scientology will never succeed as a religion or spiritual path because it is based on flawed basic concepts about what Man is and Man's relationship to the Creator of all-that-is.

    That is how I see it today, at this moment. I will probably see it differently tomorrow.

    Oh, Veda, on this:

    "It ('Batra', etc.) deals with the magical practice of expanding consciousness to the stars and the planets. The word 'Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia' is made up of the Greek words for Frog Mind Ox World Battle, and is a play on the title of the Homeric mock epic, the 'Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia' or 'Battle of the Frogs and Mice'. The idea behind the use of this barbarous name, 'Batra', etc. - that is, in pronunciation or vibration - is that it is supposed to create a sense of vertigo in which the mind is freed from its ordinary bounds. Consciousness - so the theory goes - is exalted to infinity by this method."

    The problem with so much of this sort of writing, and it is strewn all throughout occult literature, is that it often functions as some sort of METAPHOR. Or, it involves IMAGINATIVE actions, as opposed to "real actions". Of course, exercises in the imagination now may lead to "real" experiences later.

  7. Jquepublic

    Jquepublic Silver Meritorious Patron

    Shamanically speaking, the concept of exteriorization is universal.
  8. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Disciplines and practices that enhance love and compassion generally, as is common in these other subjects, actually discuss, talk about, write about, and promote heavily the ideas of LOVE & COMPASSION. If you want to find subjects that can actually result in expansion of these "abilities", then look for subjects that discuss these things OFTEN and IN DEPTH.

    In Scientology, the biggest red flag for me is how obviously ABSENT these ideas are from the vast amount of subject materials. With regard to these lofty spiritual attitudes or "states of consciousness", in Scientology, the silence is deafening.

  9. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    That comes a little too close to unmocking yourself. I spent enough lifetimes in Catholic Jesuit monasteries and got very close to unmocking myself completely. "Not my will, but thine, dear Lord". Took a lot of dedicated auditing to scrape myself together again.

    I know this is not what you were intending when you wrote the above but it is something that needs to be taken into considerations by anyone venturing into tis type of action.

    I prefer to look at things in terms of the Dynamics. We got aberrated by descending down from 8 to 1, getting smaller and smaller all the way. The road out is up through the dynamics too. So it is fine to be the world and all the beauty thereof, but when doing such exercises accept the hugely expanded beingness that goes along with it. A beingness which is often so totally different to the one you have now as an individual human that to come as quite a surprise at times.
  10. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Ere, how come your hugely expanded beingness doesn't knock that budgie straight off your head?

  11. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Auditor to PC:

    "I did NOT say "Be two feet on top of your head!"
  12. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I know exactly what you mean! :coolwink:

    One cannot be all of that "out there" without also taking on or coincidentallt adopting a very "large", cross that out, or shall I say "expansive" sort of "beingness", which most certainly hugely diminishes all sense of "personal" and even "individual".

  13. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Don't encourage me DB (Oh, go on then).

    Apparently it's good luck when a bird shites on your head (but I dunno if it expands your beingness or not ... probably does though).

  14. Atalantan

    Atalantan Patron with Honors

    I'm sorry, HH, it was a mistake on my part to write "HH". I had "degraded being" in mind because of his little exchange with Veda, not you.

    A lot of your jokes are very funny in a Don Rickles kind of way, and I enjoy reading your lampoons

    I will go back and edit that now.
  15. Atalantan

    Atalantan Patron with Honors

    Above are my last two lines. I did write them late at night, but I am not trying to be 'icky'. I feel do not really fit in here, nor do I fit in on Marty's blog except to the extent that I see a lot of potential good in the auditing tech side of scientology.

    For example, to me it looks like nothing more than the consistent delivery of Life Repair to a majority of the population would boost it to new heights; another application that might be just as good and maybe better, would be the wholesale delivery of a Comm Course and teaching people to do simple Self-Analysis co-audits. I could care less about the application of the other 99% of the "tech", building huge organizations, having uniforms, blahblahblah.

    Organizations, if they occur, need to occur and grow organically and persist as long as they are actually constructive and serving a public and civic purpose. Beyond that, they tend to become self-perpetuating bureaucracies IMO.

    I don't fit in either place really, because I did not have the deep involvement most of the posters on both boards had.

    I rejected involvement with 'institutional' or 'organized' scientology whereas most of the participants on both boards accepted it and dedicated themselves the best you could to making it work. On Marty's board are the pro-scientology tech exes, on this board are exes who have rejected some or all of whatever it is they consider scientology. You may object to my calling the posters on Marty's blog "exes", but to me they are. They were abused by the institutional system no less than many ESMBers were.

    Both groups consider the CoS a "bad barrel", y'all just don't agree on why it is a bad barrel. They find things to love and admire about Hubbard, y'all find things to hate about him. C'est la vie.

    So if I perceive that my posting here is not constructive to this board, I would just as soon not post here except perhaps occasionally. That has been my practice anyway; this thread has likely been my longest attempt to dialogue. Most of my posts in the past have been drive-bys. I do in fact spend more time than I ought to on the Internet reading, much less posting.

    There really are not enough hours in the day....

    But of course having been drawn into scientology's orbit, it is natural I would read and post on scientology related sites. ESMB is a good site and serves a (probably more than one)very useful purpose. Emma has done a great job putting and keeping it there, and I have learned a lot from it. I do not know scientology "from the inside" the way many of the members do. But I do have my own observations of it, and my own opinions about it, both pro and con.

    I've been thinking of doing my own blog, where I can 'bloviate', as one of Marty's posters has it, to my heart's content.
  16. Atalantan

    Atalantan Patron with Honors

    That was my parting shot at Veda. It was waaaaay past my bedtime.

    Maybe I'm not done with you yet.
  17. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Did you read all the links? This has very little to do with Yoga. It mostly has to do with an exercise (with no hocus pocus) for expanding consciousness outside the body (not with an astral body, but simply as a center of consciousness, or spirit.)

    I'm not an advocate of Crowley, but this is the stuff that Hubbard was reading, and the stuff that he sat up nights talking about with Jack Parsons.

    This has been covered before and I really don't want to go over it again. I know a text such as 'Magick in Theory and Practice' (called 'The Master Therion' in the PDC lectures) can seem dense, but having, years ago, read everything from Crowley that I could find, when I started noticing the correspondences between Magick and Scientology, and having spoken with L. Ron Hubbard Junior (who had his own take on this), and having spoken with another Hubbard family member (who I cannot disclose), it does appear that Hubbard's burst of creativity and inspiration from 1952 through 1954 was due largely to the Crowley/Parsons connection. (And, for what it's worth, Parsons' last meeting with Hubbard - over days or weeks - was after Hubbard returned from Cuba in 1951, according to letters from Parsons to his ex-girlfriend Sara Northrup.)

    Just as the earlier Dianetic period was based on Hubbard's mix of (the tamer parts of) his 1938 'Excalibur', his preoccupation with hypnosis and self hypnosis, and post war abreaction therapy, with a touch of Korzybski, the 1952 - 1954 period was fueled by a mixture of Crowley, Parsons, and various drugs.

    The wall I run into when presenting this stuff - especially Crowley's Magick - is that hardly anyone has read it at length and in detail. Nonetheless, the topic has been covered in various places, including in posts scattered around ESMB, so if anyone is curious, they can do the searching for it.
  18. Atalantan

    Atalantan Patron with Honors

    I believe Bob Musack, the guy who audited me on my Life Repair had really done the original pre-OT levels - OT I, II, III, then OT VII, then OTIIIX, OTIV, OTV, OTVI if I remember the line-up correctly.

    That Grade Chart is at the link below. It has columns for "Ability Gained" and "Inability Lost" for each level:
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  19. Atalantan

    Atalantan Patron with Honors

    Know this jingle? "Sometimes I feel like a troll, sometimes I don't".

    Read my posts.

    I usually try to set down my thoughts and reactions honestly, or I try to make a positive contribution to the topic under discussion, leaving myself out of it.

    Was Alanzo a troll?
  20. Atalantan

    Atalantan Patron with Honors

    That is a reference to the "Foo Bird joke". You can Google for different versions of it. One good one was published as a "Feghoot" in the Magazine of Fantasy and Science-Fiction back in the 1950s, as part of a series titled "The Adventures of Ferdinand Feghoot through Space and Time".

    Here's a real "Reader's Digest" version of the Foo Bird joke:

    The Foo Bird
    A man went to Africa to do some game hunting.
    While there, he hired a young native to accompany him as his guide.
    Soon, a large flock of birds flew overhead and the hunter took aim.

    The guide grabbed his arm and said "Oh,no! These are foo birds and to shoot one means terrible things will happen to you!" The man figured that was only a superstition of the natives and shot one down. Then the rest of the flock returned and pooped all over him and his head.

    He hollered at the boy, "I must have some water right away to wash this mess off" The boy said "Oh no! To wash the crap of the foo bird off means sudden death immediately!" Again the hunter ignored his advice, found water and got cleaned off.

    Sure enough he dropped dead then and there.
    The moral of this story is "If the foo shits, wear it."
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2011