What's new

Too Much Cruelty

CO2

Patron Meritorious
Sorry if I've insulted anyone, made someone cry.

It really is a misunderstanding.

I am talking about specific posts with specific content that is only meant to personally insult or to put someone else down.

I'm not talking about the board, or any of the people here.

Alanzo

Mose Allison said it:

[video=youtube;YPplVl42Nzg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPplVl42Nzg[/video]
 

Purple Rain

Crusader
I am not characterizing the board as cruel.

I am very exact about what I am saying.

Please look:

So if I say that there is too much cruelty on this board, I am specifically referring to posts that are nothing but insults of other posters.

And I am saying nothing that has not been said before as above, even by you.

I am agreeing with you that anyone who posts a message to another member that is nothing but an insult should have that post deleted, and if it continues, warned or banned.


Alanzo

I just would never think of it in terms of "too much" cruelty here. I mean, you could say technically that any cruelty is too much. But then, I've been mean here at times, and I do not consider myself at all a cruel person.

It's a message board, and actually quite tame by the standards of others I've known.

There is a mechanism for reporting violations of the ad hom rule, and I can only encourage you to use it where you perceive this to be occurring. Human nature is human nature and especially pronounced in conditions where an individual feels insulated from others, such as road rage from people driving in their little car "bubble" or the perceived anonymity of the internet, it should probably be expected that people will feel less societal inhibition to hold back when they're upset.

Nevertheless, I've been looking for a post Emma made recently about how busy her life is at the moment and unless a post is reported she really doesn't have time to oversee every post on every thread or even most of them. I'm sure the same applies to other moderators.

Also, you have to bear in mind that coming back after a ban, people are going to be unsure of any agendas you might have. People are wary, and much more likely to take something as a criticism than otherwise. Why not focus instead on some of the more fun, constructive threads for a while? Have fun! Play! Life is for living.
 

clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
@ Alanzo, for some reason the board is tweaking, and I can't seem to PM you. I'd like to chat if you are willing... just would like to trade a couple thoughts, if not interested, no biggie..
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
You gotta be real careful when you say stuff like that. The distinction- no matter how many times you explain, no matter how well you explain- is often lost on people.

....
That might be because it's a distinction without a difference, IMO.

"Maybe I'm trying to be one less cruel person on a message board with too much cruelty so that the effectiveness of ESMB can be even better." - Alanzo.
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
That doesn't compute, Panda Bear. If I say that the majority of people do not beat their unicorns but that some may, I do not expect to have it alleged that I claimed that the group of people with whom I've conversing habitually beat their unicorns. (it's a bad idea anyway. Have you seen the big sharp horns on those things?)

And I do not expect people who send me friendly PMs for years and people who asked me for help AND GOT IT and with whom I'd not said anything in the weeks intervening to jump on the dogpile.

But, since I did see that people were genuinely hurt and upset by my words, I apologized because that was never my intention and I tried to explain. I did that because people wanted me to explain and they wanted the apology. Or, rather, they said they did. And I truly felt they should have it, so I provided it. And the subsequent commentary was quite illuminating.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
2. I think on the whole ESMB is actually a much nicer place than it was 2 years ago when this "thing" happened. Insults are not as common as they once were.

:yes: I agree, Emma. It's WAY nicer than it was two years ago when :stir: and :shithitfan: and :hissyfit: was going on - and when there WERE people on here intentionally or unintentionally stirring things up.

But even then, it was a great place for exes.

It's just a totally super awesome place now. People seem to be more patient, and accepting of others' differences overall.

There are a few who just don't get Aussie and English humour, that don't understand a certain type of loving teasing and take it the wrong way.
 

Xenu's Boyfriend

Silver Meritorious Patron
Here are some informative talks and tools for anyone that's interested. Namaste

Cross posted from http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?32033-Recovering-From-Scientology/page2

Self-Compassion- A Healthier Way of Relating to Yourself
http://www.self-compassion.org/

New to Mindfulness? How to Get Started
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/06/03/new-to-mindfulness-how-to-get-started/

Finding Time for Truly Nurturing Yourself
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/10/14/finding-time-for-truly-nurturing-yourself/

The Path To Unconditional Self Acceptance
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/200809/the-path-unconditional-self-acceptance

Brené Brown - Listening To Shame (TED Talk)
[video=youtube;L0ifUM1DYKg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0ifUM1DYKg[/video]

Brené Brown: The Power Of Vulnerability (TED Talk)
[video=youtube;iEPbkvhPuRk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEPbkvhPuRk[/video]

Jack Kornfield - Compassion
[video=youtube;I0V3gNf6Ccc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0V3gNf6Ccc[/video]

Jack Kornfield - The Ancient Art Of Forgiveness
[video=youtube;yiRP-Q4mMtk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiRP-Q4mMtk[/video]

Eckhart Tolle - Conversations On Compassion
[video=youtube;M00VLswZdyc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M00VLswZdyc[/video]


FB, I think you'd be an AMAZING person to have lunch with. :yes:
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
That doesn't compute, Panda Bear. If I say that the majority of people do not beat their unicorns but that some may, I do not expect to have it alleged that I claimed that the group of people with whom I've conversing habitually beat their unicorns. (it's a bad idea anyway. Have you seen the big sharp horns on those things?)

And I do not expect people who send me friendly PMs for years and people who asked me for help AND GOT IT and with whom I'd not said anything in the weeks intervening to jump on the dogpile.

But, since I did see that people were genuinely hurt and upset by my words, I apologized because that was never my intention and I tried to explain. I did that because people wanted me to explain and they wanted the apology. Or, rather, they said they did. And I truly felt they should have it, so I provided it. And the subsequent commentary was quite illuminating.
I'm referring to Al's distinction between Cruel Posters and Cruel Message Board.

Al's "a message board with too much cruelty" is just another veiled criticism of how things are here on ESMB. He's possibly hoping to change things on ESMB, he seems to be doing a lot of that since he returned.

Still, on the bright side, one less Unicorn Beater is always a blessing. :)
 

Claire Swazey

Spokeshole, fence sitter
I'm referring to Al's distinction between Cruel Posters and Cruel Message Board.

Still, one less Unicorn Beater is always a blessing.

Oh dear. I was havin' another blonde moment. Sorry 'bout that.

But yeah, seriously, ESMB regulars- DO NOT MESS WITH UNICORNS. The results can be deeply painful.

Now, as to Alanzo, I hope he's had the catharsis I think he may've been seeking. While I do not agree with Sheila that this board is nicer, I certainly don't think the opposite- that it got worse or meaner or anything. It sure gets some great conversations and topics now, and it did years ago.

Now that the Armadillo is back, I think he can maybe make some new friends here and some of his old friends are happy, too.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
Oh dear. I was havin' another blonde moment. Sorry 'bout that.

But yeah, seriously, ESMB regulars- DO NOT MESS WITH UNICORNS. The results can be deeply painful.

Now, as to Alanzo, I hope he's had the catharsis I think he may've been seeking. While I do not agree with Sheila that this board is nicer, I certainly don't think the opposite- that it got worse or meaner or anything. It sure gets some great conversations and topics now, and it did years ago.

Now that the Armadillo is back, I think he can maybe make some new friends here and some of his old friends are happy, too.
Lol, I sincerely hope so. :)
 

JustSheila

Crusader
Oh dear. I was havin' another blonde moment. Sorry 'bout that.

But yeah, seriously, ESMB regulars- DO NOT MESS WITH UNICORNS. The results can be deeply painful.

I like this very much. It's cute, and it gets the concept across well.


Now, as to Alanzo, I hope he's had the catharsis I think he may've been seeking. While I do not agree with Sheila that this board is nicer, I certainly don't think the opposite- that it got worse or meaner or anything. It sure gets some great conversations and topics now, and it did years ago.

Now that the Armadillo is back, I think he can maybe make some new friends here and some of his old friends are happy, too.

Viva le difference! Well, you and I are getting along better. So maybe you're getting nicer, or I'm getting nicer, or maybe the Board is getting nicer, IDK. I don't think about that much, to be honest. I think Alanzo will be just fine. God knows some of his posts just knock it out of the ballpark. I'd like to see more of those.
 

I told you I was trouble

Suspended animation


I can't believe this thread ... if someone feels another poster has been 'cruel' ... they can report it. I've never done that but if it's that much of an issue I guess that would be the handling.

:confused2:

I haven't seen any specifics so maybe I'm missing something but ESMB (to me) is a fun place where most of us are happy with things as they are and would say so (at the time) if not.
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One


I can't believe this thread ... if someone feels another poster has been 'cruel' ... they can report it. I've never done that but if it's that much of an issue I guess that would be the handling.

:confused2:

I haven't seen any specifics so maybe I'm missing something but ESMB (to me) is a fun place where most of us are happy with things as they are and would say so (at the time) if not.

I agree!
confused24.gif


This thread: unbelievable! :biggrin:
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
I just want to say I hear you Alanzo & I have to say that yes, on occasion, some things are posted that could be considered insulting. I posted a "butthurt" jpeg a couple of times in response to something you wrote. If you consider that insulting then I'm sorry.

I think we've all toughened up a bit over the years with exposure to Anon culture, and these quippy pictures are all over the place. But let me ask you, how is someone supposed to respond to someone who is having a big whinge at a situation that appears to be overblown or even manufactured?

I'm going to be really straight with you Alanzo.

You were like God around here from 2007 - 2011. People loved you & loved your wit & cleverness. I loved you too. Banning you broke my heart but not as badly as the reason I had to ban you. You hurt & upset a lot of people on your last crusade. Not just me.

Your absence from the board left a big hole. But over time we filled that hole & the board got its mojo back. You said in a post in your last crusade that "ESMB was 'done'". I think Zinj said something similar. To me it seemed you guys thought ESMB couldn't survive without you. However ESMB survived and became stronger over time as collectively we became more inclusive & less judgemental of people. It's not perfect but it improves all the time.

ESMB has been through a couple of wars & I don't think I'm alone in saying I don't want another one. Things are pretty good now but it wouldn't take much to ruin the delicate balance. From my perspective at least, you've appeared to return looking for things to complain about & things to bitch about. That's going to upset people.

Your concerns & warnings might be completely valid but you failed to take the temperature of the room before you started up. It just came across as "I'm back and I'm pissed & I'm gunna create some trouble" and off you went. It didn't go down well. And yes, you copped some "cruelty". The irony for me is that nothing you have been on the receiving end of recently even approaches the cruelty I've seen you dish out in the past.

So my advice to you (if you want to stay here & enjoy the board as you used to) is to be leave the crusades back in 2011 where they belong. You aren't the God of ESMB anymore. No one is.

I miss the funny, sweet, wonderfully insightful poster who I fell in love with on Beliefnet & who I was incredibly glad to welcome to ESMB. It that dude still around? I hope so. I miss him like crazy.
 

He-man

Hero extraordinary
I miss the funny, sweet, wonderfully insightful poster who I fell in love with on Beliefnet & who I was incredibly glad to welcome to ESMB. It that dude still around? I hope so. I miss him like crazy.

That guy?

Never coming back, he was accidentally killed off in the big hoolabalooba back in 2011.

People change, you've changed too, Emma.

Looking at that old thread makes me sad. So many good posters who don't come back here, just because of opposing views on what is intolerant.
 

ThetanExterior

Gold Meritorious Patron
<snip>
So my advice to you (if you want to stay here & enjoy the board as you used to) is to be leave the crusades back in 2011 where they belong. You aren't the God of ESMB anymore.<snip>

I agree. I've only been here just over a month and I think I've learned more about "Alanzo" than any other topic.
 

Emma

Con te partirò
Administrator
That guy?

Never coming back, he was accidentally killed off in the big hoolabalooba back in 2011.

I think he's still out there.

People change, you've changed too, Emma.

Yeah I know. And probably not for the better. That was a pretty horrible time in my life.

Looking at that old thread makes me sad. So many good posters who don't come back here, just because of opposing views on what is intolerant.

Yep...It's hard to read it. Makes me sad too.
 
Sorry if I've insulted anyone, made someone cry.

It really is a misunderstanding.

I am talking about specific posts with specific content that is only meant to personally insult or to put someone else down.

I'm not talking about the board, or any of the people here.

Alanzo

Alanzo, why don't you......
Abolish cruelty with kindness I think that's what you said.
Abolish impatience with patience.
Abolish insults with not insulting people.
Abolish pissing everyone off by not pissing everyone off. ('Everyone' in this context can mean me.)
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Interesting thread, kinda.

I never actually understood what the big (old) meltdown was all about. I even clicked the link that Emma provided and looked over the Threadus Horribillis --the first 500 posts or so until the dreaded "feels like OSA" post.

Then, on this incarnation of Alanzo, it was obvious there was a lot of unfinished, unsaid things. But I didn't know what he was talking about with the "ESMB is cruel" stuff.

I ignored it, figuring it would go away. But it continued.

I have no idea WHO exactly is supposed to be cruel.

Weird mystery.

And if someone posted something cruel, I have no idea why Alanzo doesn't just report it. Who is he defending that cannot report it themselves?

Then (more recently) posts recommending to others that they cure their cruelty. But WHO is supposed to need a cure for cruelty in the first place?

Seems kind of silly that whole threads get burnt through and I still have no clue who the cruel ones are.

Is anyone allowed to ask? LOLOLOLOLOL
 
Top