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Unofficial Official statement of Anon's stance on Tory.

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by FacelessVoice, Jul 26, 2008.

  1. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    One effective technique in getting through to the "slaves" is being safe to converse with.

    Playing OT III outside the window to Scientologists, and shouting "Xenu" at Scientologist from across the street to watch them scurry might be funny, and fun for the militants, but it is extremely ineffective at "bringing down the cult".

    Kristie Wachter's site www.truthaboutscientology.org, has a line on the home page that tells Scientologists that no confidential or OT data will be presented to them. That allows them to surf her site without fear of all that comes with that.

    It's a thought.
     
  2. byte301

    byte301 Crusader

    I've read a few exes stories saying that the Xenu incident was what they went online to read about and is what made them get out. It's what made me decide after several years of being out that I was no longer a $cilon.

    Elron was right when he said that people love a mystery. They love the solution to the mystery even more. Xenu is a big mystery to the innies and if they can hear what a croak it is I think it places a HUGE doubt in that brainwashed mind of theirs.
     
  3. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    True.

    But they usually did it on their own. After some kind of incident which got them questioning.

    If critics and anon want to create incidents which get them questioning, scaring them, in my opinion, is not the way to do it. Nor is it the way that cult exit counselors like Steven Hassan suggest.

    I first heard about Xenu online in 1990, on a pre-internet bulletin board called GEnie.

    It did not make me start questioning. It only convinced me that the people I was talking to were real live SPs.
     
  4. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    Of course you are partly right, although I don't know how you know it is "extremely ineffective at "bringing down the cult" - I think that is an assumption on your part rather than an obvious truth.

    But the masks serve another purpose as you well know (protection from fair game). To see the terror a mask produces is very sad and quite shocking when you actually see it happen, as I wrote at the time.

    The point I was making is the mask produced terror in the CofSer and curiousity/amusement in the public. This is because the CofSer has had reverse-scientology processes run on them.

    The OTIII/Zenu business is another point. And you have a point in what you say, but still the fear is still a result of LRH's use of black-scientology on his slaves. That fear does not exist in non members, even if they have been told how dangerous OTIII is - this is because they haven't had black-scientology processes run on them like the slaves have.

    I suppose the declaration by anonymous of the OTIII story is their way of saying that CofS members are brainwashed into being fearful. However, given that Ron and his minions have run the reverse-scientology processes on the members, I do agree more gentleness could be used by anonymous.

    I doubt that will happen, just as I doubt the CofS will stop using reverse processes on its members to keep them controllable. Either wish is likely to fail. It is just part of the situation. The best outcome is for the CofS cult to crumble under the spotlight of truth as soon as possible, so that the hurting experienced by its slaves can be ended as soon as possible.
     
  5. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    I was already out for years and well on my way to being completely apart from any lingering effects or thoughts or ties to the cult when the OT3 stuff first broke online and - really by total chance - I saw there were links to it. I remembered at that moment the old mantra about how if you reveal it to yourself before you're "ready" all sorts of terrible things happen to you and - by God - there was half a second when I said "gee maybe I shouldn't look" (proof it hadn't all worn off i guess eh?) - but that was over-ridden by the fact that my blowing staff resulted in better health and life (the opposite of what I was threatened with) so I went ahead and clicked and read.

    And you know what - it was like a million pounds popped off the top of my head! I felt good and clean and just smiley all over! It was a MAJOR thing, because I had never read anything quite so full of stupid bullshit in my life and if there was any lingering doubt anywhere in my BEINGNESS about the validity of scientology it was GONE right then and there.

    So I have to say reading OT3 was one of the most life-changing events of my entire existence.

    :tease:
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2008
  6. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    Me too! After I was declared, I made a point of reading OTIII and realised it was a complete code break and not even Scientology auditing as previously defined by Ron. It was what helped me decide to never try to get back in! :thumbsup:
     
  7. feline

    feline Patron Meritorious

    I disagree with you here. I think that Alanzo has the right of it.

    We are dealing with a group of people who aren't afraid to leave their current theatan. Perhaps the "lightly" indoctrinated will be curious about the whole Xenu thing but the seriously indoctrinated are completely unafraid of shedding their current theatan (body) because they believe that they have nothing to lose. We are dealing with people who are happy to drink the Kool-Aid.

    You were out long before you read the Xenu story. We are talking about reaching people who don't have that buffer of time.

    I don't have a problem with making hamburger out of sacred cows. I have a problem with feeding adult food to babies. Don't shove truth down the throat of the person incapable of digesting it. Feed them in digestible bites. Believe me- you will reach more faster.
     
  8. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Me three! :happydance:
     
  9. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Thank you. Your needle's floating.

    Would you like others to have similar gains to yours?
     
  10. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    Ummmmmmmmm.... no. Just me! :coolwink:
     
  11. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Red tag!!!
     
  12. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    Selfish bastard. :p
     
  13. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    Well I already left on a Red Tag once before & it worked out pretty good so.... you know, do what works / make it go right / upstat protection... etc. etc.
     
  14. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    What point are you making or are you just being sarcastic?

    We are trying to have a decent debate about the validity or not of declaring OTIII data. Some good points were made on both sides.

    What point were you trying to make with the above?
     
  15. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    I think humor, personally.
     
  16. feline

    feline Patron Meritorious

    Esc- I totally get that you were "freed" in a sense after years of being out. But that was YEARS after being out. Can you say definitively that the same pertains to someone heavily indoctrinated and still IN?

    Feed adult food to adults. Feed pablum to infants- even if they wear adult bodies.
     
  17. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Not ever having been in, a lot of the experience here doesn't have much to do with me, but, the first information I had on Scientology was mostly about the subversion, Fair Gaming and, yes, the most offensive bit of 'Tech', Disconnection.

    This was following on any number of high profile 'cult' cases, such as Bhagwan, Jonestown, Children of God, Krishnas and part of a general shift in position for me, since, until the early '80s, I'd had a kind of amused yet distanced appreciation.

    I didn't run into Xenu until the mid-90s, when I actually began to get involved in direct opposition to the 'Church' of scientology.

    All that struck me about the Xenu story was the incredible banality of it all. It wasn't even ridiculous enough to be amazing. What was amazing was how importantly Scientology took it and how deeply disturbing it was to Scientologists.

    Zinj
     
  18. Escalus

    Escalus Patron Meritorious

    Yeah I actually was just relating my experience. I wasn't in on the other conversation really - I just sort of jumped in like a silly jester. Sorry.

    I think the best way to reach people still in - especially staffers - is to ask them why they're starving their asses off and are stuck on one dynamic. It won't cause mass evacuations but it plants a seed.
     
  19. asagai

    asagai Patron Meritorious

    Just a reminder here. At demos one doesn't meet ordinary staffers. They are nowhere to be seen. What Scns you meet tend to be people especially placed there to confront the evil SP protestors. It is those people I was talking about as regards coming up against the black reverse scientology processes that they have been run on.

    On a non-demo day I went past an org and met three ordinary staff. I assure you I said nothing that you would expect to cause them distress. I was very gentle with them.

    All I said was I'd seen Scientology on the Internet and the masks. This was enough to prevent them from speaking to me for about 15 minutes while I stood and read their promo.

    Ordinary staff as so caved in with reverse-processes that they can't even speak to someone who says they've looked on the internet. No body routing, no stress test, nothing. In my day I would have been routed onto the Comm Course in that time! :roflmao:
     
  20. feline

    feline Patron Meritorious

    Escalus- I agree with you.

    I am appalled that there are people out there who think that all we have to say is "Xenu" and they (Scientologists) are freed.

    We are dealing with people who are not afraid to "shed the theatan". That scares the shit out of me. We are talking about serious Kool-aid.

    I have been in the place of choosing life or death. I chose to fight to live because there were things I still wanted to do. And I believed this was my best chance to do those things. Do Scientologists get that view? Or do they get taught that life is more disposable than Kleenex?

    My ex used to tell me that he could shed his current body and get a better one- and it wouldn't take long. Scared the hell out of me.