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Video: Gilman Hot Springs RPF Punishment, Running "Pole", Interviews Prince & Brooks

Discussion in 'Scientology-related Videos' started by CornPie, Apr 7, 2009.

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  1. CornPie

    CornPie Patron Meritorious

    Moderator Christian Bruckner, " Gilman Hot Springs is another attraction in the scientology program, a circular spot, in the middle is a palm tree, that's not meant for harmless games, that spot is for running, today clockwise, and tomorrow counter-clockwise..."

    Jesse Prince, "[David Miscavige] put a big main pole, and, and ah the Gilman Hotspring Location, and people had to run around it, all day, and it was a punshment for people who he thought had suddenly become [break] and you do it from the moment you wake up, until you go to sleep, you just run around the pole, day and night, for weeks on end."

    Stacy Brooks, "Twelve hours a day, [Bruckner, "around that pole?"] yah, until you realized you had been, ah faulty in your thinking, and, and ah were ready to think straight again, and be a proper scientologist."

    Bruckner, "Is that how it worked for Wiebke H? Did she also spend days on this spot? Wiebke H, the successful manager, what became of her?"
    These actions give a whole new meaning to scientology's question, "What are your crimes?"

    From the web page below; land, running punishments sometimes meant running around a pole for hours at a time, often in hot sun (see Kent Interview with Pignotti, 1997: 22; S. Young, 1994: 66)...
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  2. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    All true. I didn't see a single thing in that video I didn't experience myself.
  3. CornPie

    CornPie Patron Meritorious

    How can we get video of actual running punishments taking place? Past and present.
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2009
  4. AnonOrange

    AnonOrange Gold Meritorious Patron

    I wonder if there was any voting allowed at Happy Valley.

    Can someone provide me with the exact address and the years, which scientology was running the operation there. Also what was the address of the remote housing apartment in Hemet ?


    PS: I got a CD from the Registrar of Voters. Jucy tidbid: DM did not vote !
  5. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'd bet the tree isn't being used anymore. I'm sure DM has moved that whole idea to somewhere inside a building.
  6. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Oh I'm quite sure he has! :yes: He wouldn't want any helicopter pics anymore of someone actually doing the practice, now would he? :eyeroll:
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  7. CornPie

    CornPie Patron Meritorious

    I said> How can we get video of actual [pole] running punishments taking place? Past and present.

    Iknowtoomuch replied> ...I'm sure DM has moved that whole idea to somewhere inside a building...

    Then how can we find which building, and get a videocamera inside of it. Somebody, please help!

    Maybe there are already pole running videos on somebody's shelf. With dates, places, and names of the victims and the villains. On camera interviews would add so much credibility.

    This video haunts me every time I watch it. It's an atrocity that needs to be exposed.
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
  8. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    There is no way for 'us' to get a camera inside a Scientology building, because it would be *illegal*.

    Opposing Scientology often has elements of 'spy vs. spy' to it, but, only as *they* break the law, violate privacy, harass, intimidate, 'investigate' both noisily and otherwise and generally act like the scum they are.

    There's no giggles in invasion of privacy. The people who *should* be doing the investigation would have to get warrants for every camera, bug etc. that they put in, and, that's as it should be.

    We're not the cops, but also not the Cult, and, there is no percentage in thinking about violating the law, even for the 'giggles'.

  9. CornPie

    CornPie Patron Meritorious

    . The people in this video are describing felonies.
    . Punishing prisoners to run around a pole for hours, days, weeks; is a felony.
    . This is not civil justice, but a kangaroo court, administrators are clearly felons.
    . It ought to be worth violating privacy laws, to expose a felony.
    . When I speak of 'us', I do so from the perspective of all free citizens.
    . If someone has video, names, times; their duty is to expose it to the free world.
    . If I had such evidence, I'd expose it to the world first, then go to the cops.
    . My 1st concern would be to expose-stop the practice, 2nd let the cops do their job.
    . If law enforcement had the stomach to stop it, they'd have already done so.
    . Don't sell out future victims by signing a gag order on a settlement.
    . Even if you signed a gag order, I think you should renege and expose this practice.
    . If you've been a victim, or a perpetrator, expose it via on camera interview.
    . Video cameras are $150ish US, publishing on YouTube is free, cleanse your soul.
    . You can publish yourself in one day, the truth will set you free.
    . You joined scientology to make this a better world, now it's time to come clean.
    . In this case, it's better to ask forgiveness, than permission. Just do it.
    . Provide names, dates, times. Today videos are everything, text means nothing.
    . This is very very bad. As the saying goes, it's a "smoking gun".
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2009
  10. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    If you violate the law in getting 'evidence', you are likely going to be the person arrested. And, the Cult would love it. A police agency gets a warrant for any such 'evidence gathering', and, if they don't, they're likely to get arrested too. Worse, if they're *not* doing the investigations they should be doing, because of corruption etc., you are even *more* likely to be arrested for breaking the law; including jaywalking.

    Enthusiasm is no good replacement for sanity.

  11. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Here is a good aerial photo of the running tree (using a zoom lense).

  12. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    I think it's "cogito ergo consume" :D
  13. CornPie

    CornPie Patron Meritorious

    . Where was that photo taken, at Gold Base?
    . Is it close to the golf course, it looks well manicured, sort of like a sand trap.
    . The manicuring looks like it started on the inside, with a pull behind contraption, round-and-round to the outside.
    . Where is it in relation to SP hall?
    . Who took the photo?
    . How was it taken, helicopter, private airplane, jet, etc?
    . When was it taken? Today, a month ago, a year ago, a decade ago.
    . Are there any photos showing people running.
    . Is it possible to zoom in further to see faces.
    . Any more details?
    . Looks like somebody took a couple of laps around the outside.

    . Notice the evenly spaced poles around the outside perimeter.
    . I estimate there are 16 poles, 8 FT tall, and 12 FT apart.
    . Equating to 48 sheets of 4 FT x 8 FT plywood to conceal from bystanders.
    . If true, the outside diameter would be 192 FT.
    . Construction and engineers reading this, what are your ideas?
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2009
  14. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    My sig line is sort of a play on words. Rene Descartes said "cogito ergo sum" which means "I think therefore I am" (I did a term paper on this in college).

    I write software code for a living (as a profession). IOW, I code. So I deliberately screw up this word "code" into a fake Latin word "codo".

    "codo ergo sum" = "I write software therefore I am".

    This is supposed to be mildly amusing. But you might groan. Engineers have a weird sense of humour sometimes.

  15. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    That pic was taken by D-Rad (used to be a poster on OCMB). He was flying over the Gold area a few years ago and took a few pics from his private plane. (He has a VFR license.)

    I've met him in person probably about 2-3 years ago to go and visit Tory at one of her "parties".

    Did I answer your questions adequately?
  16. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Gee, Cornpie. I never could find references on the Happy Valley scene on YouTube. This OSA is scarey. That little man who got out of the car with that sour dark soul and was going to make a citizens arrest..I've seen him before. Who is he? His face was in a google link I found somewhere last week.
  17. CornPie

    CornPie Patron Meritorious

    Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF) -- Forced Pole Running Punishment

    . Zinjifar, we both view "pole running" from a legal perspective.
    . But I view it as an extreme human rights abuse too, by scientology's RPF.
    . So I think it's an obligation to expose live pictures, and risk the consequences.
    . I say; first expose the atrocity, second advise law enforcement.
    . The cult would not love it, they'd be ducking for cover in embarrassment.
    . I want to see live video of forced pole running RPF punishment.
    . And I want to see amateur home videos by people who were involved, please!

    Google Satellite Map Two Circles:,-116.986767&spn=0.003788,0.008036&z=17
    (The top circle at mid-screen, looks like the one that on Post#11 of this thread. A smaller circle below it, is less visible to buildings.)

    Street Level Picture of Entrance:,0.004485&z=18&iwloc=A
    (If you look closely enough, there's a guy inside the guard shack, looking out at us from the right window. Then if you click 2-3 times to the left, there's a girl with a nice body heading down the street, and she's got a sexy walk. BTW, the sprinklers were turned off that day).

    QUICK! Do You Recognize These 14 People:,0.002776&z=19&iwloc=A
    (Quick, before the pictures disappear -- continue clicking down the street to see all 14 people, this is the street out front of Gilman Hot Springs, plus there are two people on the other side of the street). There's an entire thread devoted to this map at:

    Looks Like a Penitentiary to Me:,231.683359966034,,0,10.478260869565213
    (Maybe Miscaviage is a prison-warden for the CIA. No wonder he's such a nasty cuss.)

    Notes: Drag the ORANGE MAN from the top-left corner, onto any street.

    I first heard about scientology's "forced pole running program" from the guy who duped me into the church, in the late 1970's, I did not believe him at that time. But it's been going on long enough. The cops have had time enough.
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2009
  18. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Not bad. I remember reading a pilot issue on the running pgm at New World Corps in 1986 and what I recall is Hubbard saying the running track should be *exactly* 200 feet across because that was the exact distance of the thetan from the implanting device in the incident. I remember thinking that the unnamed implanters were unlikely to be using feet and inches and to have it coincidentally such a round number would be odd, to say the least.

    I won't bother to say now what I think of it all!

  19. CornPie

    CornPie Patron Meritorious

    Google Map of Gold Base Circles:,-116.986767&spn=0.003788,0.008036&z=17

    I think your 200 FT "across" estimate based on data you read, makes more sense than my earlier 192 FT "circumference" estimate. Here are three reasons why:

    1) I based my estimate on a picture alone, with nothing else nearby to compare it to.

    2) Towards the bottom of the picture, there's a wannabe soccer/football field, which are usually about 300 FT long. And the running circle is about 2/3 the length of the field. In other words 200 FT.

    3) I assume that's an apartment building to the top of the picture. If those units are 25 FT wide, stacked 8 side-by-side, 25 * 8 would be 200 FT. These are approximations, but come "close" to the width of the top running circle.

    I first heard about "running around poles" as punishment in the late 1970's, from the guy who duped me into scientology (I passed off what he said at the time, even though he was very serious about it). Regardless of that, maybe the guy that reg'd me was referring to a predecessor of the New World Corps pilot issue which you read about 15-ish years later, in 1986. In fact, maybe a predecessor to the 200 FT wide top-circle, is the smaller circle, a bit harder to find, but it's near the bottom of the picture, which appears to be about half as wide as the top circle. How long has Gold Base been at that property? What was located at the Gold Base property before scientology, how long have the circle(s) been there, any satellite imagery, any exes know, do any locals know, was it the CIA? Paul, do you still have that 1986 issue, is there any way to do a "readable" photostat of the issue, and upload to an Internet picture service?
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2009
  20. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I never had it. I only saw it once or twice. Sorry.