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Featured Well, I'm out now.

Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by Snuffy, Jul 4, 2007.

  1. Snuffy

    Snuffy Patron Meritorious

    So here goes. Just decided a few days ago. Can't get off the internet after finally allowing myself to look at it. And you know what? I didn't get ill, go insane, or die when I visited these supposedly "evil" sites. I DID find a lot of info they didn't want me to see. And I DID experience a tremendous amout of waking up and relief. And that feeling of "How could I have been so STUPID?"

    I haven't told family or friends yet. I'm still getting calls for events, and having discussions with the people who call me.

    But I can say I'm definitely out now.

    One, two, three, four! I'm not brainwashed anymore!

    I'm free now to think whatever thoughts I want. Gone is the cringing fear of mind-rape ethics interviews.

    My biggest fear is getting declared. I was in for 8 years, off and on staff, then requested to leave. They wouldn't give me a sec-check, said no one was available to do it, but I was still expected to be on post month after month. So I finally just left. They threatened me with a declare, but I still wouldn't come back. Finally they said they would do the sec-check but that I needed to purchase 25 hrs of auditing as "set-ups". I said no. I haven't heard back yet.

    Is getting declared as terrifying as I've been mind-controlled into believing it is? Will I get harassed?

  2. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Good for you, Snuffy.

    A staff leaving confessional is actionable, it is not auditing. I can't imagine any justification for "set ups" other than getting more money in - unless anyone else knows better.
  3. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    No, quite the reverse.

    You get your life back.

    The hardest part for most is they do not have friends outside Scio......but you have hit the are amongst friends on this list.

    My advise is get back on your purpose line that you thought Scio would help you with.

    Its fairly easy to find:

    Just ask yourself: What purpose(s) was I wanting to win at that I thought Scio could help me with?

    Write them down.

    Usually your main purpose will come back to you.....a bit battered and submerged as you have been.

    Write your main purpose down daily and you will be amazed at what will transpire! :)


    Maybe a local will try to harass you a little, make you wrong, etc. For most they are too harassed to get their stats persist for long.

    Usually the next Thursday after 2.00 pm the harrassment stops.

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2013
    Koot likes this.
  4. barky

    barky Patron with Honors

    They caught me in that scam when I left. Don't do it. It's just another hook to get money off you (if they can't get your free labor).

    The best advice I can give you right now is you will be tempted to go back. You've been loaded up with slogans like "the only way out is the way through" and "Scn is the only answer" and other such farfle. Plus you'll feel that you've abandoned them, and that you need to stay loyal to a group to which you belonged.

    But keep focused on the truth: Scn is a controlling, dominating organization. They have used you, abused you, lied to you, and will take advantage of you any chance they can get. Whenever you feel that twinge, that desire to call them back, come back here or to any other ex-Scn resource on the web, and stay focused.

    I say this out of experience. I "rubber banded" in and out for years, precious years that I could have spent doing better things with my life.
    Koot likes this.
  5. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    People do not get harassed just from being expelled and declared. In fact, the opposite occurs. The person then is almost "dead", so to speak, to Scn'ists in general. Their only contact is the "IJC".

    The people who get harassed by CofS are the ones it thinks are doing things to picketing, leafletting, etc. Not even all of those people get harassed. Some surely do. Some don't.

    I have only had one or two things happen since I left CofS and subsequently got expelled a year later, and I attribute those more to my activities than to my status.
  6. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    The only possible problem is getting disconnected from friends family business associates etc. If that dosn't apply you have nothing to worry about.

    I'm interested in the " mind rape ethics interviews" if you wish to talk on that. I was in COS a long time and an E/O most of my time on staff. I never gave or recieved such interviews, but that was in kinder times.

    You did right to just leave. Its the orgs hat to give your leaving sec check. They dropped it. You picked up your life. :)
    Koot likes this.
  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Welcome to the free world, Snuffy.

    The worst thing about being declared is the cutting of your comm lines so that you don't shine the light of truth on things for people who might listen to you and reduce the :shark:'s income. There are many, many friendly people around who were once avid churchies. Some still love the tech, some don't, but many still seem to get on with each other OK. You might lose some friends for now until they also see the light, but the ones you gain may make up for this. If you get disconnected from family members there isn't an easy answer, unfortunately.

    As you have been discovering, the idea that life "outside" is scary and out-ethics while all is hunky-dory inside is not exactly the truth of the matter.

    Enjoy your new freedom, anyway. :)

    Koot likes this.
  8. Snuffy

    Snuffy Patron Meritorious

    Thank you all for your comments. They have called me tonight and I've told them I do not wish to be in Scn any longer, and they still want me to come in and talk. I have a staff uniform, so it may be a good chance for me to bring that in and so not feel like I've stolen something from them.

    As far as the ethics interview, Terril, I was in one of the orgs that went ideal (DM's investment capital for when he flees), so we had WDC missionaires, etc, in there, and a new Snr C\S they'd brought in with them, so the atmosphere was hideous. I goofed and did something that entailed being ordered into an ethics interview with this new C\S that came in with WDC, and once there I admitted to some mistakes I'd made several months earlier. I operated with the usual trust I'd felt back before we were on the Scn world-stage as an org and I knew all the staff for years and trusted people. Well, my "HIGH CRIMES" got written up (and blown out of proportion - scratch into a broken arm kind of thing) and soon I was a pariah awaiting a Comm-Ev (which never happened btw), still coming in to post but precious few people would look at me and one of the WDC guys gave me one of those SRA's. It was ony for about five-minutes, but what crushed me was that things I'd freely admitted to and put behind me suddenly became plastered all over my face so no one could look at me without seeing that, and even after doing a full-on liability condition, I was still thought of as "the one who'd ...". It was like a medieval village witch-hunt kind of thing. The fact that I felt the missionaire had control over my entire eternity as a being (and I was threatened with never being allowed onto the OT Levels, so hideous was my "crime") made the illusion crack. It was such a huge logical "out-point" that the beginning of my leaving started then. I'd always said these kinds of things didn't happen because I'd never seen them, but after that, not only had I seen them, I began to realize how much hold these people had on my mind. So in a way, the WDC zealots did me a favor.

    Anyway, I don't want to go into too much more detail and so compromise my anonimity (which I'm sure I'll dispense with sooner or later anyway), but as far as feeling mind-raped goes, the over-exposure of things I'd said in confidence, along with the suspicion that the person who administered the interview kind of "got off" on his power-kick, using abusive language, etc, led me to feel violated. It was about the most distasteful experience I've ever had, in or out of Scn.

    Still not sure I want to go in there, but I guess I should at least let them know how I feel and take my uniform back.

    I'm lucky in that I always kept Scn seaparate from family and friends and never really disseminated (I must have known all along that it was bogus) means that I do not lose much on the freinds and family side of things as some have. It's more the overall mind/spirit recovery that I'm dealing with at the moment, like "Can I still believe that I'm an immortal spirtual being that has an eternal adventure ahead, or was it ALL BS?" I suppose my own integrity will evaluate that over time.

    Again, thank you all so much. The postings here, and the videos and articles and books on Operation Clambake have been very therapeutic.

    Last edited: Jul 4, 2007
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist


    :cheer: :dance3: :woohoo: :party:

    If they do that then see if you can get it writing - frame it - hang it on a wall in your living room. Some people out here consider this thing sort of like a "Badge of Honour".

    Best regards,
  10. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    It seems unlikely that they'll ever give him a 'goldenrod', but, they will inform his friends and family that he's 'been declared'.

    I'd suggest pointing out that you have *not* received your declare and that 'if it's not in writing, it's not true'.

    Current 'Church' practice is blatantly 'out ethics'. Point it out.

  11. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    Well I would like to tell you CONGRATULATIONS Snuffy!!! On finding the truth. Remember they will try to hanlde you more when you turn in that uniform.

    I got declared and now I am sure it is the best thing that ever happened to me. Nobody bothers me from there at all. Not even IJC or CJC. No-one. They did write letters for about a year checking on me, but now nothing. (and some people on this website are jealous cause they want a declare too and havent gotten one).

    You are among friends. Welcome to the sight. You will not be judged here. (You can read my story on this sight).
  12. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

  13. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    That is not only out-tech but also Black Dianetics. I would never have tolerated that. I couldn't believe it when SRA and Gang sec-checks were reported as being conducted at INT in 1983 soon after I had left the Sea Org.

    Earlier I thought that staff at Flag and orgs were simply untrained, but now I can see that they are deliberately being mistrained if this type of happenings are commonplace in the orgs. I would keep a distance between me and such insanity.

    But I believe that there is still a lot of good there. But there seem to be a disease that is spreading.

    What would a Golden Age of Ethics be like, I wonder!


  14. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    100% Standard? There is nothing in the *worst* application of Scientology Ethics that diverges from L. Ron Hubbard's own 'intent' and practice.

    We award production and up statistics and penalize non-produc-
    tion and down statistics. Always," wrote Hubbard, "reward the up
    statistic and penalize the down...

    The purpose of ethics is to remove counter intentions from the environment. And having accomplished that the purpose becomes to remove other intentionedness from the environment.

    In short a staff member can get away with murder as long as his statistic is up and can't sneeze without a chop if it's down. To do otherwise is to permit some suppressive person to simply Ethics chit every producer in the org out of existence. When people do start reporting a staff member with a high statistic, what you investigate is the person who turned in the report.

  15. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    The "terrifying part" was over when YOU decided that you were leaving and you refused to bow to the pressure to stay and get the sec check they were not willing to do.

    That was "it".

    Speaking as someone who has two (count 'em - 2) declares to his name let me assure you that the declare part is just hilarity.

    And no - you won't get harassed.
  16. Snuffy

    Snuffy Patron Meritorious

    Again, thanks for all your replies. Just to clarify, I didn't get a gang-bang ethics interview (although I've no doubt they happen). The person who did the interview was simply abusive. And he came in from outside at the same time as the WDC guys, I think they appointed him, but he wasn't SO. He had the coldest, most empty eyes I'd ever seen, though. SS Officer-type in a bygone era I reckon. The WDC SRA came 2 days later, after all my horrible misdeeds became public knowledge.

    One strategy I'm finding immensely helpful is re-reading Orwell's 1984 after some 20 years. The thoughts of someone living day to day life in the midst of a mind-controlling totalitarian regime match so closely to what I'd caught myself going through as a CoS staffer, and I only realize it as I read, as though Orwell's prose is as-ising the doublethink I enacted on myself. If you haven't looked at it recently, check it out and look at the appendix on Newspeak, then ask yourself what a Scientologist really means when they say things like "get your ethics in".

    Phrases like "counter-intention" and "the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics" -- this latter is especially insidious because when you're a part of a 3rd dynamic group like CoS, they claim to handle all the other dynamics, so any choice that does not put CoS first cannot be "greatest good for the greatest number". The logic traps are well-laid into the Newspeak of Scientologese. And I don't think the "tech" of ethics is theoretically valid as long as a situation is evaluated correctly, because the very basis of standard "Golden Age of Tech" is that automatic responses are drilled into you so there is no room left for individual evaluation. Individual evaluation begins to get labelled as "reasonableness", "suppressive reasonableness" or "squirrel". More Newspeak.

    Anyway, again, it's great to have found an outlet where I can at last say what I think. And you're right, Mick, the terrifying moment was when I made the break in my own mind. I thought the unthinkable. Everything else proceeded naturally from that.

    I'm making my way through all of the personal stories at the moment. Bea, your story is amazing. So full of action. Ever considered turning it into a book? Or would the OSA Gestapo give you a knock in the night? I haven't finished it yet, but great stuff so far.

    Thrive in their faces, that's what I say.
  17. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Ethics cannot function without a proper application of Data Series Tech.

    MacKenzie likes this.
  18. namaste

    namaste Silver Meritorious Patron

    It is interesting that you would make that connection.

    When I was doing work/study in LA, I worked at Bridge Publications while the "Mission Earth" series was being put together. Robert Vaughn Young was the editor. I can tell you that he was a really great guy and very intelligent.
    It seems that he eventually had the same type of cognition.
    Here is a link to what he had to say about it:

    and another that I found interesting:

    I'm glad to hear that you had the presence of mind to get away from that garbage.
    That "Gestapo" attitude that runs rampant in the COS is primarily what drove me away too.

    I hope you will take Alan's advice and rekindle that original purpose and find a more capable group to help you achieve it.

    I believe that the Freezone and Independent groups are a much better way to go nowadays.

    Welcome to ESMB. :hattip:
  19. Snuffy

    Snuffy Patron Meritorious

    I've seen something about a Pilot's book of self clearing on Freezone. Anyone with any experience of that?:thankyou:

    I'll check out Vaughn Young's postings. I've seen him in some vids on XenuTV.
  20. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I ran about 230 hours on it in 2000. It worked pretty well. Definitely worth the effort.

    There are more alternatives around now though.

    Free online auditing 24/7
    Paul's Robot Auditor