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What is a right and wrong? Story and Question.

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Mike Laws, Feb 7, 2011.

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  1. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm a

    I'm a neverwas (first time I have heard that one) - and I am here for personal reasons - scio/co$ has touched the periphery of my life - more than once - in fact, again and again. THAT IS WHY.

    Why does anyone do anything? Probably because it is personal.

    Has the critic forum become more 'life' than 'life' for some? Probably - and probably has become the core identity for some. I have seen this happen with activists in areas other than scno. Some people latch onto a 'cause' - or a 'side' :ball: - and protesting becomes their life and core - even when there is nothing left to protest. Then it gets crazy.

    Humans fairly consistently are always looking for the next 'enemy' - and find that, sometimes very close, too close, to 'home'.

    I find that sad (especially when that 'well-intentioned' and driving force turns in on it's self). But it is THEIR life (and who am I to judge???). I try to find the 'other' person there, in people, anyway, so it does not matter to me. But it can get in the way . . .

    In cyberspace, it can really get in the way.

    As to why Emma would post these FB postings - she was asked. Having read it, it helps me clarify what is going on - so Thank you Em, Thank you Zinj.

    I am glad I am (still) here, safe and sound. I am sad about all this going down, still coming down - the fall out. I don't get it, but it doesn't change my feelings about the people here, the ones who were here, the ones who are gone - or even if someone is osa or not, or who is / is not.

    So f'g what . . .

    The Truth will out - eventually. We have to live with the crap, though, until that happens. People do shitty things - history is full of it, and we will all continue to do it - occasionally - sometimes. We are human - yep even the scnos - even osa - fallible human beings, who screw up - and let 'denied' parts control the whole being.

    :sadsigh: The biggest SPs on the planet are the osa. That is what it takes - to do that. :duh:

    WE are our own worst enemies. :mirror: Fuck, I really hate this internal squabbling. :gossip:

    The TARGET is OUT THERE - the co$ - the lies - the abuse - the trafficking - the imprisonments, disappearances, the deaths - the people caught in the web - the midget spider in the middle of it who not only furthers the diabolical lrh insanity, but has improved upon its depravity.

    OUT THERE. :hissyfit::buttkick:
  2. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Zinj has been involved in criticism of scientology for longer than most of the posters here were familiar with the word. After years of criticism, he formed connection with the other critics, and like many of us, has developed a "second family" amongst the people who make it their aim to prevent totalitarian religious groups from subverting human rights and the laws of the lands they occupy. Amongst that group of people, he found real-life contacts and friends, like many of us have.

    IMO his lack of having been a scientologist is only material if he were to pretend to first-hand knowledge of experiencing life as a scientologist, which he does not do. Instead, he critiques the double-think and the errors of thought that he sees, and tries to help people in his own way.

    I wish all concerned in the fray would put down their righteous ire. Lot of unflat Grade IV around here.
  3. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron


    Farking A, I took a few newbie courses over 30 yrs ago, and I am still getting mailings from them, as if I have been in my whole life. I am sure they 'count' me - for whatever purpose someone is trying to fullfill. I am just a fucking stat. I knew that over 30 yrs ago and got the hell out -:run: :runaway: - fucking terrified too :hide: - at what I had glimpsed. :omg:

    When you look into the Abyss, it looks back into you . . .

    :no: Not for me. But I am sure co$ counts me as 'in' - or at the very least - potentially so.
  4. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I continue to fail to understand why Zinj was banned, and what the furor was all about.

    So Carmel had some suspicions, got mad at some people, and they her. So the fuck what? So people suspect Mike Laws, so what?

    Seriously, IMO, the source of the continuing bruhaha is the secret communications that people refer to. People form clicques of trust, and I guess that's natural, and then their politics play out in front of the board, while the source of the conflicts continuously is withheld from view. All because of "operational security". I find it disgusting. If you have something to say, say it. Present your case. That goes for anyone.

    Hints, comments based on things not present in the conversation but from some private dialogue, all that stuff leads to sudden, large conflicts between the people keeping the secrets, and are misunderstood by everyone else, who just wish the people concerned would stop taking themselves so fucking seriously.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  5. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Yes. For serious cases of butthurt Doctor Panda prescribes;

    500mgs of Get-The-Fuck-Over-Yourself, taken with
    250mgs of Grow-The-Fuck-Up.
    Repeat Dose as determined by degree of butthurt.

    Surgeon General's Warning: Not efficacious in cases of self-inflicted butthurt.
  6. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    You know Roger, you really nailed it on the above.

    When I first came here to post, I saw that Zinj had long since come here and had become some sort of a celeb compared to when he was posting for years past at alt.religion.scientology. I was wondering where he'd been, as he's stopped posting regularly there. I thought, he's still as acerbic and 'know best' as ever but it seemed that he's made friends and was enjoying the attention they provided. What I notced was that he had an audience that was not being cut off by trolls, spammers and critics who did not agree with him ( as was the case many times over at ARS).

    Zinj is someone who I liked for speaking his mind over on ARS despite opposition ans avoiding arguements. He never wasted time arguing with those who opposed him. He's just speak his mind, often in an astute way that I found helpful, and then just ignore the drama that would ensue among the spammers, trolls and few critics who attacked him. I mean few if any.

    But he changed since coming here, or perhaps it's the other way around. He would make a blanket statement , declare it as fact and then hound whoever opposed it, knowing he could then go to another thread and have an adoring audience to fire up his ego for a return visit to fight what he felt was opposition. Thing is what he did to Mike Laws took it further. It's just an extension of this evolution. I think he took Emma and ESMB for granted. As if his popularity and longevity would protect him from ever being banned. I think he got too full of himself here and when the bubble burst, he got all butt hurt.

    Lest we forget, while he himself not an ex, he's one of the Old Guard warrior picketers and because of it, Zinj was outed and Fair Gamed. He is a victim of scientology. He's got issues about this as do so many exs and their treatment. Never the less, over tme, Zinj became more interested in being right and targeting people like Mike instead of documenting Marty's murderous crimes that he so often whined about. Being more 'rightious' than being interested in getting along with others in a moderated forum.
  7. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Hmm.. I really don't know what to think about this post Mike... It's a response to Scooter, who's concerned about somthing you said.

    Well, Mike, you seem to be in the center of something of a brawl here in ESMB. May I suggest that you refrain from making other CoS critics look 'suspicious' and psychoanalyse them from a distance?

    After all.. I think most of us here will believe Carmel ande Zinj before you. That's just a function of you being a newbie.. Merely a Trainee OSAbot.. Heh.. And a post like this one seem to be fueling the fire in this brawl.

    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I was wondering too, Kev. Rog's reason makes sense. I've had ESMB chat turned off for months.

  9. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I'm usually in chat, and I must have been gone for that period of time. Zinj is normally irascible, but I never saw any particularly mean stuff. He hasn't answered my queries. I don't trust other people's characterizations of commentary. Some people represent me as crude and impolite, whilst others represent me as informative and funny. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I'm not sure Roger saw Zinj's "beauty".
  10. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    LOL! I'll have mine in cyber chocolate.... :happydance:
  11. Pooks


    I extremely happy Zinj is not posting here.
  12. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Occam's razor:

    I think a good deal of the fussing and fighting on this thread can be attributed to common physical/ medical problems that go untreated in scientologists because they think they are "invincible," and then carry over into ex-scientologists who continue to believe they are not subject to the same natural physical phenomena as are other human beings.

    I think this is especially true of those ex-scientologists who miss the "fight for the cause" and "make it go right" drama of constant emergency from their days as powerful and important scientologists, and voluntarily continue to take on "impossible" goals and extremely stressful situations and tasks while depriving themselves of proper nutrition, rest, relaxation, recreation, and medical care.
  13. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    Nobody gets me.
  14. Lord of the Flies.

    That's my last word.

    Lord of the Flies.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
  15. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    If what you're saying is they need a wank, I'd agree.
  16. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Just about everyone "fussing and fighting" on this thread has been out of the cult for years and has visited physicians in the interim.

    And, by the way, speaking for myself, when I was in CofS, I got all the medical care that was indicated. Antibiotics, bronchitis meds, two surgeries.

    If lack of medical attention were the problem, I wonder what would constitute the excuse for so much fussing and fighting amongst long time critics, some of whom were once in CofS- but a very long time prior- some of whom weren't.
  17. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

  18. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

  19. Outethicsofficer

    Outethicsofficer Silver Meritorious Patron

    Good one Synthia...and that about sums it up.

    Perhaps this thread can be now moved to the "grudge match" and hopefully it retires there for a while and dies.

  20. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Personally I've found it informative on a lot of fronts.
    I know exes can also have a 'not want to know, it's too noisy' thing as well as the 'fight for a cause' view. At least now I have some idea of what was/is going on. The more info the better. :)
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