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  1. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    I have not yet studied Knowledgeism and am reading the website now.

    I have studied about Idenics and had one free session delivered by Mike Goldstein. My understanding of Idenics is that when LRH scrapped creative processing because it beefed up the bank he may have been too hasty in assigning a "WHY". Remember when he thought Creative Processing was "IT"?

    John Galusha worked with LRH in those days. About 25 years ago with the help of Mike Goldstein John Galusha picked up the thread of creative processing and discovered the real why of its not working. Thus Idenics was formulated.

    Mike gives sessions over the phone. If you liked the book, "Creation of Human Ability" then you may appreciate Idenics.
  2. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    No... LRH said that too many hours of Dianetic auditing validated the "Bank".
    Hence, the books and HCOBs about creative processing. Also, thus was born the repetitive processing on the Levels.
  3. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Identics is basically an "Own Identity" handling Technology.

    The problem is there are billions of own identities that a being has created down through time.

    To make matters worse there are "Free-Radical Identities," and "Artificial Me's Identities."

    This is not including "entities."

    The difference from Scio....the Knowledgism is - is that it approaches the "being" first.

    It processes from the top down - the highest beingness possible.

    That means the client is exterior from the start of session.

    It takes about 3 to 5 minutes to get an average person exterior.

    When a being processes from an exterior position the being can run about a thousand times faster than if they process from "in their head."

    Not only do they run faster - but they are incredibly accurate with their perceptions.

    Thus you very rarely need to do any form of correction list.

    As you process the positive - the negative comes to view.

    The negative usually is always a second postulate situation.

    The "being" is basic on every chain.

    Scio......processes from the bottom up......thus it takes forever to get to basic.

    The definition of a squirrel process is any process which is out of ARC.

    Looking for Upsets, Problems, Overts, Withholds, Secondaries and Engrams
    are out of ARC processes.

    The hardest part for a Scio Processor to get is the client when they process exterior know's more than the processor.

    One of the reasons I left Scio was; I was constantly stopped from running deep enough.

    Almost every Scio I have cleaned up was run wrongly and their exterior states were by-passed.

    Creative processing is natural for the "being" if they maintain their high states.

    Hope this helps.

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2012
  4. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    By the way I have heard nothing derogatory about Identics......several had done Identics before coming to us......never had to handle anything.

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2012
  5. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    programmer_guy, Gnosisi is correct. LRH originally thought creative processing was IT. Later he abandoned it for the reason Gnosis gave, that it "beefed up the bank"

    From what I remember, creative processing was pushed by Ron in the PABs. The quote about it beefing up the bank and it being abandoned was also in the later PABs if my memory is correct and I think it was recorded as such in HCOBs.

    Always struck me as a peculiar analysis. Creative processing was wonderful. After all, resisting things is what beefs up the bank. Allowing/creating seems to me to do the opposite. Especially if you balanced creative processing with Physical processes like touching objects in the room.

    I suspect it worked rather too well for LRH's taste, prodicing PC's who didn't need any more auditing! Any tech Ron abandoned should definitely be re-evaluated in my opinion!
  6. Emma

    Emma Con te partirĂ² Administrator

    I looked into Idenics too (from afar).

    I thought it looked like it had merit. Auditing identities rather than entities made a lot more sense to me. I just don't buy the BT thang :)
  7. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Repeating Affirmations are a form of Creative is goal setting.

    LRH definitely suppressed the Upper Level Causative Tech.

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2012
  8. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    LRH would reject any process or procedure that would set a person fully free.

    Almost invariably if you set someone fully free, they will start setting their lives up the way they want it.

    Of the 1,000's of ex-Scio's we have cleaned up from fixed attention in Scio......almost 95%.........had to put their lives in order.

    Most just kept a comm line in........getting an occasional assist if needed.

    Anyone who spent several years on faced with a tremendous backlog of abandoned vital life areas that need to be repaired.

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2012
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I looked it up.

    From: "Scientology 8-8008", page 10

    This is the point I was refering to.

    BTW, to all of you on this thread, thanks for the conversation on this - I like it.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2007
  10. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Good find -PG :)

    The same can be said of all processing "processes were limited in that they could not be applied more than a few hundred hours without the case assuming a very high command level over the being."

    Can you imagine what being the effect of having to run bt's for 20 years could do to you!

    At all times once the pc has had an Ascension Experience you must keep the being as the senior area to address and process.

    That takes a whole different approach to this type of technology.

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2012
  11. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Hi, Alan,

    I was indicating that lionheart was mistaken. (But, no big deal... I have also been wrong before.)
  12. UMike

    UMike Patron with Honors

    To interject an important point/outpoint.

    No method is Better than the other. What works for you---may not be comfortable or therefore workable for me.

    No universal methodology exists imo.

  13. Mike Goldstein

    Mike Goldstein Patron with Honors

    This is my first post on this site. I just found out about it. "Gnosis" sent me an e-mail saying that she had posted something about Idenics here and sent me a link. After reading Alan's posting in the "What is Idenics?" discussion, I thought that it deserved some comment from me.
    It is not my intention to argue philosophies or methods or make him wrong for anything that he is doing. But I do want to correct some misconceptions that he has regarding what WE are doing in Idenics. And since this is a discussion about what Idenics is, I believe my posting is appropriate.
    I certainly agree with Alan's idea that it would be a real problem if we were to have to address every identity that a being has assumed in their existence. Fortunately, the only identities that we ever need to address are the ones that a person is stuck in or with. And in truth, there are a limited number of these. Also, I wish to clarity that I don't believe that it is a bad or aberrative thing to assume identities. I hold with the definition of aberration that defines an aberration as, "an ability gone out of control." In other words, at the "bottom" of every aberration is an ability.
    To assume or throw away any identity at will is an ability. To get stuck in or with an identity or to assume them automatically in inappropriate circumstances is an aberration. And as I have stated above, we only need to address the ones an individual is stuck in or with, and there are a limited number of these.
    Secondly, it is easy for one coming from a Scientology background to get the idea that we have categorized types of identites, have some sort of identity lists or rundowns, and program our clients to "run out" these predetermined kinds of identities. This is very far from what we do. We have no such agenda for our clients. Actually, we have no agenda at all for clients. We ONLY work from the client's agenda, and DIRECTLY address whatever the client wishes to handle, resolve, change or improve. However, in addressing what the client wishes to, we obviously have techniques, processes or questions that we employ in doing this, and these techniques, processes or questions are based on certain concepts. Since we don't work with a client in a rote manner, as every person is different, an Idenics practitioner must be able to adjust questions to the individual being worked with. In order to do this a practitioner must have a good grasp of the concepts employed in Idenics. One of the major concepts used in Idenics (and which the name "Idenics" was coined from) is the subject of "identities."
    The subject of identities is not new, and has been around for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years. There have been many different terms, definitions and ideas used to describe this sort of phenomenon. But much about the make-up of identities, how they are generated and assumed, and their importance in therapy was not known until Idenics. In Idenics we define an identity as simply, "a way of being in order to accomplish something."
    If one is interested in knowing more about Idenics, its history and development, and its comparsion with Scientology, there is quite a bit written about these things in a series of articles that I published on some former Scientology newsgroups a couple of years ago. These series' were picked up and archived on several different Web sites including Mike Hunsaker's, which just recently went down. Fortunately, this site was just mirrored and you can access these mirrored sites at or There is also more on our Web site at

    Mike Goldstein
  14. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    You and I are on the same wavelength with that thought.
  15. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    Idenics and Creative Processes

    For example, whenever I run a particular SOP8C process (look at-walk to-touch) I shoot right up the pole and then slam right back down UNLESS I finish off with some sort of havingness process.

    Has anyone gone the distance with creative processing and havingness processes.

    I still recall in the PDC lectures (yes I was there!) where Ron talked about a brother and sister who would sit side by side and place mock ups on the fireplace mantle. Anyone remember that?

    I actually did mock up into full physical universe solidity a small object. Perhaps we could start a whole new thread entitled "Creative Processes".
  16. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    Mike, what was John Galusha's conclusion about creative processes? Does Idenics use creative processes?
  17. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    :wave:The core version of Paul's Robot Auditor and The Yawn Machine are based on creative processing and havingness. Both free, and online 24/7.

    They work very well.

  18. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    I doubt that few have.

    When you run creative processing you can trigger past creations. Havingness can also produce a similar effect.

    These past creations span the 7 dynamic spectrums from +40 to 0 to 0 to minus 40 - these creations also span at least 32 rising scale universes - the bottom being the physical universe, the top being a co-creation universe. Each universe also includes most forms of dependency and co-creations.

    Each one of the 32 universes have different laws and different space, time, energy and matter forms.

    They run vertically as well as linear.

    The above is what most collide into when you have an Ascension Experience.

    To my knowledge there is no Tech written up that has been fully codified and fully developed to handle the above - YET!

    It take a team of high cause level, highly trained omni-sovereign processors and omni-sovereign spiritual beings to handle this.

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2012
  19. Mike Goldstein

    Mike Goldstein Patron with Honors

    John and LRH did several years of further research on creative processing that was never written up. LRH put the research on a back burner and never re-instituted it in that form again. I go over the history of all this in the second series I mentioned earlier ("Life After The CoS" series). John never fully agreed with LRH's conclusion that all creative or mock-up processes beefed up the bank. John was able to make some of the processes work just fine, and continued employing them successfully over the years. In fact, in the first series, "The New Regime Takeover" series, I mentioned this amazing session that John did on me at the Flag Land Base when I was called there for an ethics handling in 1982. This was, at the time, the greatest session that I'd ever had, and I was in the middle NOTS at the time! It got me out of the mess at the time unscathed. It was a creative processsing session.
    How John was able to make this processing work where others couldn't was something I wouldn't understand until the advent of Idenics. Many people throughout the years, including LRH, noticed John was a "special" auditor, but no one could seem to put their finger on why this was so. I mentioned in the "New Regime Takeover" series when John was doing Book One sessions on new people on stage at the Flag Land Base and Class 12 auditors were blown away at his auditing "style" asking him if he was doing some kind of special TRs that he learned in the early 50s! His "style" wouldnt be understood, until later, and became the basis of the application of Idenics, which is gone over extensively in the "Life After the CoS" series.
    With the advent of Idenics, the later researched forms of creative processing mentioned above were incorporated into what we do now and have become much simplier. Much of what John was doing before Idenics was, in most cases, no longer necessary.
    I hope that what I've written here and what is in the second series, "Life After the CoS," answers your questions.
    Mike Goldstein
  20. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron

    Idenics is about looking or Seeing

    Yes, thank you, Mike. I recall in my session you asked me to look and see which I was able to do rather easily. You also asked me to acknowledge. Those were the two abilities I took away with me and continued to practice even after the session.

    To deal with any temptation to push my case solutions off on others, remember folks. if it indicates to you that's fine and if it doesn't that's fine. The Tibetan monks had a slogan: 1000 monks, 1000 paths. Now I don't know exactly what they meant by that, could be good if they didn't mean 1000 systems of additives.

    Idenics is a strange beast for me because I find that it does not persist very well and I have to keep going back and re-realizing it. Mike has talked with me on the phone for hours and hours and I have to acknowledge myself for my own persistence. I brought this up to Mike and he told me about a client who had very dramatic wins in his sessions (line charge, cogs), and then later forgot that he had even had sessions. Now I don't think this is because he was "hynotized". Idenics is not a suggestive type of process. If you call seeing what you want to confront (not the actual command by the way) hypnotic, then okay.

    Mike read for me two chapters from his upcoming book on Idenics and its background and technology. One of the chapters is about "Additives" which he also writes about on his website.

    The only other technology I can think of that is without additives would be pure meditation, the end result of. Perhaps a good TR0. To tell you the truth, I only had a "good" TR0 for about 60 seconds. Even after hours and hours. BUT, that 60 seconds told me that there is a world worth exploring.

    To fill in the time it is going to take me to arrange to take the Idenics Course I will be doing more TR0 or some form of pure meditation.
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