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What the fuck is going on?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Pooks, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Pooks



    lack of toleration; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc.


    to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit.

    My name is Patty Pieniadz Moher. I was in Scn for 27 years and I've been out for the past 12 years.

    In the past 12 years I have been slowly but surely unraveling the Scn Onion, as well as exposing the cult as pleasurable hobby.

    What unraveling the Scn onion means is that I've been inspecting and looking at my Scientology indoctrination and piece by piece removing or adjusting it so that there's more ME and less RON in my head. I'm a work in progress and my life is actually so much better now that I think like me and don't run all my thoughts through the Scientology filter.

    12 years ago there were only a handful of critics exposing Scn. Arnie, Gerry, Dennis Erlich and a few others took the full brunt of everything Scn could throw at them and it was very evil. It's no wonder so many exes suffer from PTSD. There is no doubt that they should be thanked for their efforts.

    Now the flood gates are open. People are leaving the cult and some are mustering up the courage to speak out and expose what is going on. Those of you who have been here a long time, might want to stop and remember what it was like for you when you first started reading critical information.

    It was scary.

    Regarding the recent war that has broken out on ESMB--- Here's my take on it and I would like to discuss what others consider to be the best way to deal with it. This is not a thread to continue the war, but a discussion on how to end it.

    First off, I don't have a problem with critics going after each other and calling each other out for posts/activities. I think it's good and healthy, but it obviously needs to be contained so it's not shitting up all the threads.

    What is see behind the current war is intolerance.

    There's a group of Old Guard Exes, that have been out for longer than they were in, and they have become intolerant of anyone still in the Scn mindset.

    Sure they provide interesting and helpful info but they also provide intolerance of anything that goes against their beliefs and when called out for this, the response is accusations of dogpiling by secret cliques with dubious purposes.


    Listen, I think Scn is a shit heap of fail. I have no love for it, but I do have a love for those who have been indoctrinated in Scn and are digging their way out. I want Scios to come here and read and not be attacked because they still believe in the mindfuck.

    It takes time to unravel that rotten Scn onion! Lots of time. But the fact that a Scio has managed to arrive at ESMB at all is a huge accomplishment.

    If a Scio comes here, we need to talk and educate them and show the videos and links so that they read and come to their own decisions about shit.

    We dont' need to KR them, or write long screeds about how they are doing evil work by continuing to audit or use or think with Scn.

    How fucking arrogant to think that?

    We don't need leaders or self appointed gurus telling us the correct and right way to think about Scn. We need to be tolerant and not equate tolerance with OSAOSAOSA plotting and promoting of Scientology.

    What I'm hoping comes out of this war is that the membership stands up for tolerance and education and hugs. Ya, fucking hugs! Because HUGS WORK AND THEY HELP PEOPLE!

    And with that said, I'm not opposed to an occasional smack up side the head for the truly dense.

    My advice to Karen, keep doing what you are doing. Make videos, talk to people, especially the ones just leaving, point them to critical information and don't worry about a small group of hard core intolerant exes. Just keep laughing and telling it as you see it.

    My advice to the intolerant.

    Lighten up. Life's short. Eat more Pie.

    Thank you for letting me vent.

    Big hugs,

  2. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    Have a cuppa tea, Dear...:)
  3. Idle Morgue

    Idle Morgue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Good post! I hear you however it was this bantering amongst the folks here that got me to LOOK and LOOK and LOOK! I lurked and read what the old GO's said and the one's opposed to any scientology. I looked at WHAT scientology did for me and my loved ones - staff and sea org - I made the decision that there is nothing good about it and I left. I got others to leave. Yes, we all have to peel the onion off however, it helps if others that know the truth help by telling the truth. I personally see nothing wrong with speaking the truth. We can all handle the truth - we have done TR's!:lol: Just kidding.

    Some of the people that helped me pop my bubble and begin the peeling were Smila and Helluvahhoax - are now gone. Their cynicism and sarcasm made me laugh and look - They were honest and clever. I do miss them!! The posters here that tout the tech really did nothing for me to get out.

    I hear what you are saying and do not think anyone should get attacked - but I do think it is okay to challenge. Otherwise - it is not freedom and we have all been shut down and inhibited from speaking our minds whilst in the cult. I love it that I can say "I hate everything about Scientology and El Ron Hubbard was a con" and not have to go to "ethics"!

    I have friends that are out but will not look at the internet. They were in TOO long and have been convinced something bad will happen to them. They still have the "scientology filter" in place and everything goes through it and it drives me nuts! They realize Hubbard was a con and scientology does not work....but if they would do their homework - they would shed the filter faster, IMHO.

    For example, they still use the lingo (get in comm, my 2-D, did you have any wins today?) Virtually everything I talk to them about is analyzed through their "scientology" think...I hate Sprint because the customer service sucks and they do not honor their verbal agreements - won't put anything in writing so I bitch about Sprint - and my friend asks me "do you have any overts on Sprint?" Aghghghghghghghghghh - really?? I told them to lose the tech and the lingo - they agree but just can't peel it off enough.

    Thanks for speaking your mind. I can handle it. I think everyone is allowed to be where they are at and no one has to "protect" anyone's filter. Lurkers have the freedom to go elsewhere if they love scientology but think it is their Org or David Miscavige. It is not their Org or David Miscavige - it is Scientology - all of it!

    You post was great!!
  4. TG1

    TG1 Angelic Poster

    Wow, Idle Morgue. That's too bad. I guess they were boiled slowly, so they'll have to cool down slowly. Just keep tossing ice cubes in the pot.

    I, too, have friends who, God knows how, have avoided even having an email address because they are so terrified of being infected by anything critical of Scientology.

    So ridiculous.

  5. Boojuum

    Boojuum Silver Meritorious Patron

    Thanks Patti.

    Very intelligent and wise post.

    It's hard for people who get passionate not to fight. Rodney King's famous comment, "Why can't we all just get along." was the statement of someone who not been seriously involved in a passionate group. (Rodney, we humans love to fight.)

    You've addressed the question of "when to stop". I hope it works.

    Most of the ESMB'ers were extremely passionate about Scientology at one time, for years, days, some for decades. Now most of us are passionate about being ex-Scientologists. The fight/attack habit was strengthened by Scientology.

    I'm on the ESMB to unpeel the Scientology mind fuck. It's been fantastic! I don't expect much respect but I don't think I'd like it if someone told me what a crappy Scientologist I was when I was in. Or, what a lousy wog I am now that I'm out.

    Personal attacks were daily life in Scientology. Hourly, even. That was passion; that was stupid; and that was bad.

    There isn't a proper method of how to be an ESMB'er. This isn't our new cult although it can feel like it at times. It's a bit like the Wild West. It's an evolving set of guidelines.

    Your post IS part of the guidelines but it's really an expression of the goal of ESMB-to heal from our shared experience.

    These are my free thoughts. LRH didn't write them. I didn't have to clay table them. ESMB has allowed me to post them. That's a good thing.

    Thanks for your thoughts. They were non LRH thoughts. They were Patti's.

    It's great to be out.
  6. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Pooks is a genius!

    That OP is one of the very, very best posts I've ever read on ESMB.

    It says it all . . . the only tragedy is that some of those who should listen to it are likely too bloody dense to get its message.

  7. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    I second what Patty says...

    And I also want to add....

    So much of what has been brought up here in the last few days is stuff that happened years and years ago. And the same people keep chewing on the same shit over and over and over. The stuff that is being posted now I also saw posted last year here or on some other board. And the year before that. And the year before that...

    I came onto ARS in 1996, and I swear I see exactly the same stuff from exactly the same people today that I did then. Seventeen years ago.

    Healthy sane people don't sit in shit like this. They resolve things, one way or another, and they move on. They change. They grow. Their priorities shift.

    We were all damaged by what we went through in Scientology. But, guess what, people? Scientology isn't the only damaging thing in the world. There are a lot of things that people go through that scar them for life.

    The deal is:

    Do you let it define you?

    Or do you take what good you can from the experience to make you a better person, and create a new better life for yourself?

    And leave the crap behind you.

    At some point, the blame has gotta stop. Blaming Scientology, blaming other people, blaming whoever or whatever.

    It never helps. It doesn't ever fix anything.

    One of those really stupid self evident sayings that always comes to my mind when I'm having difficulties in life or with other people is:

    "You can't control anyone else's actions. You can only control your own."

    It is what you do that defines you. And gives you the life you want.

    And nothing else.

    I'll get off my soapbox now.
    .. :soapbox:
  8. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Wow! Excellent OP, Patty! Really!!! :thumbsup:
  9. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Yeh.. WTF is going on? - The dorky scientologists haven't been doing anything entertaining lately... They're keeping a low profile, and the terror midget is in hiding. Too boring it is.. Hence the ex'es start bithcing.

  10. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

  11. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    It seems to go with the territory, right?
  12. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I third it. Also awarded a "like".

    Quite seriously these are rarer than the Victoria Cross.
  13. FlagEmDown

    FlagEmDown Patron

    Loved your post, Pooks! I have lost loved ones to the "church" of scientology, and oh how I wish they could see a video or 2 of Karen's or Magoo's. Then, perhaps the split up family could realize the manipulation they are under and perhaps be united. That would be amazing. I understand that some people may never be able to pull back the onion completely, or even very much, but just getting them away from the church's destruction would be a dream come true. So, to those who are intolerant of folks trapped below the onion skin, please realize that some traps can never be completely loosened and help those who need to travel through their life under that condition.
  14. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Most anyone realizes that :), and most know people who are trapped below the onion skin - and some even like it under the onion skin.

    And most anyone is tolerant towards such people.

    But do you really think the opening post is about tolerance?

    Or is it about intolerantly shutting up certain persons, under the guise of tolerance?
  15. geee

    that's a good question...

    what the fukkk IS going on?

    well, whatever is going on can wait til monday as far as i'm concerned

    i'm off to the 4/20 thing in golden gate park
  16. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader

    Boy that takes the cake, Veda!

    Pooks's post is speaking great truths that all peoples can benefit from . . . if they are not too dense, that is . . . and you are convolutingly managing to invent a twist to suggest she is intolerantly shutting people up!!

    That sort of takes the cake.

    Do you always see ill in people and their motives and actions?

    It seems your true nature and colors are beginning to show . . .

  17. A.K. Myers

    A.K. Myers Patron with Honors

    I agree! People should be allowed to express their opinion,
    regardless of how deep they are still buried in the horse shit.

    The only thing that gets my panties in a bunch is when some
    individuals use this forum to FSM for "the tech," be it in the
    cult or, in da fee zone. Those who continue to profit off this
    drek are fair game as far as I am concerned. That also applies
    to those who use their former status in the cult to influence or
    lord it over others. (Yes I do include my training and ot levels
    in my sig, but that is just to establish how deep in the shit I
    personally went.):biggrin:

    This site is here to educate people about the cult of $cientology,
    not to sell it to the newly escaped.

  18. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    What happened to the idea of being tolerant? :ohmy: Jeez. :melodramatic:

    I guess I don't qualify for tolerance, as I just expressed an idea that will not be tolerated.
  19. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    The posts about wins and stuff are no longer allowed here and have not been being posted here since that rule was implemented. (this is not a poke at or disagreement of this, either and I hope my wording is ok and conveys that.) So I don't see much promotion of tech here. I almost say "any" but I realize that is subject to interpretation.

    My take on it is that taking into account the cessation of the forwarding of wins, that all that happens now re pro tech type stuff is sometimes people discuss it procedurally or even to say they like it. I do not see that as being the same as promotion of tech.

    I also would like to suggest in the most amiable possible way that it's one thing to take up what people say including disagreements you would have, and it's another to go after the person.

    I know you no longer have use for tech outside the cult or on one's own or whatever and that you do have experience with it. And that you have experience with a lot of things re this whole Scn situation. I find your posts valuable from that standpoint plus I always kinda had a good vibe about you, FWIW. I do think that, however, it would be a pity for anyone to get the idea that a minority viewpoint re Scn and Dn (as in, yah, mon, I like it) would be disallowed here or would be license for the person to be challenged rather than their commentary.

    But you're always pretty civil anyway and you know what you're about.
  20. secretiveoldfag

    secretiveoldfag Silver Meritorious Patron

    From a neutral point of view way outside the cult, where there is no Hubbard effect, or counter-Hubbard effect, not even a pro-this-Critic or anti-that-Critic effect, it is obvious that most long-time members get very screwed by Scientology. This is not a permanent effect but some people find it much more difficult to correct it than other people.

    Even when they believe they are doing very well and getting clear of the mindfuck they are still Scientologists. Anyone who has never been a Scientologist can pick this up very easily.

    It would be interesting and useful to know why some people work at it quite rationally and get their lives back in order quite quickly while other people go through a long slow process and some never make it. In the meantime fights among critics are like a lot of kindergarten kiddies throwing sand at each other. Not a learning process. A waste of space. Not what this message-board is for.

    Pooks was being ultra-reasonable, IMO.