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What the fuck is going on?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Pooks, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    What if they recognise it as a lemon, but they sometimes use lemon juice in a recipe?

    All people are suckers sometimes. Suckerism is part of the human condition. Anyone who ever trusts or believes will be betrayed by someone or something.
  2. JBWriter

    JBWriter Happy Sapien

    ^^^^In re: bolded above.

    Perhaps what is most unforgivable is when a trusted someone/something causes a person to betray himself/herself?

    Just a thought,

    JB. (Doesn't seem right to call it 'self-suckerism', but I haven't another phrase which remains on point. No disrespect intended.)
  3. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    You know what. I really don't care. I don't use Scientology. I don't have any time for Scientology. I splurge on the Schadenfreude. I just believe in live and let live, letting people think for themselves and do what they want if they're not hurting anyone - not just "hurting" as defined by a bunch of extremists, but "hurt" as defined by the parties actually involved.

    And I don't think anyone can CAUSE YOU to betray yourself. They can trick you, invite you, pressure you. It's still your decision.

    All this discussion is based from the question of who or what is a Scientologist. And I just believe in a person's right to self-identify with that label or not, and not have it inflicted on them by a bunch of wounded people with a fanatical agenda.

    Like "dogpiler" it does serve a purpose to label others "Scientologist". But labelling theory holds that it sucks to do that to people and I tend to agree.
  4. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Sorry, I was in a rush when I asked. I meant to say "the scientologists" and "scientologists and their collaborators" when I asked for your definition, both concepts that you use constantly in your posts. Example:

    Serious question, and no it doesn't need a new thread or a lengthy explanation. Is this a specific group, or people who are currently in scientology, or people who have ever had anything to do with it? With such a general term being used, it is sometimes hard to follow who you are talking about, that's all.
  5. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    That's where the Citrics of Scientology come into it! :biggrin:
  6. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Could you orange for me to meet them?
  7. JBWriter

    JBWriter Happy Sapien

    I posed the question as it relates to all people - not scientologlists/ex-scientologists/fz'ers/indies -- just people, all of us. Your post actually prompted me to think about trust and betrayal, something everybody's experienced, just as you described. I wondered if the worst type of betrayed trust was when a person went against their own conscience - that's it. I wasn't calling anyone a 'self-suckerist' or some such label - merely trying to add to your post, not detract from its impact or content at all.

    I've betrayed myself - and paid most of the resultant consequences. I hope not to do it again, but it might happen, so I do my level best to consider risks/advantages before I act -- just like most people. I haven't answered the question I posed here because I honestly don't know which is worse - being betrayed by someone/something or betraying myself.

    Thanks for bringing up the topic,

  8. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Does there have to be a worse? It's like when your whole world is crashing down around you and you know there are starving children and people in hospital dying of cancer and all kinds of horrible things, but pain is still pain. When I was in hospital with my deep vein thrombosis there was this lovely woman in the bed next to me who was suffering from pneumonia. She was in her seventies and my heart just went out to her, watching what she went through. But when we got talking to each other, she felt just as sorry for me - thought my pain was worse - so it just goes to show.

    Bad things that happen should all be treated with respect in terms of how they affect the person I think, from a child's disappointment that seems trivial to others to getting a knock on the door from a policeman saying someone you love has been killed in a car crash. It should all be respected, I think.

    Comparisons are always interesting, of course, but I think the conclusions about betrayal versus self-betrayal would depend on the relative values of the people concerned.
  9. JBWriter

    JBWriter Happy Sapien

    Lots to think about, thanks.

  10. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    It wasn't just in my mind. Quite a few other members "noted" the noting.

    Besides I never said it was a KR. It was an ethics gradient.
  11. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    Ahhhhhh......very noteworthy.
  12. Caroline

    Caroline Patron Meritorious

    Thanks for fixing your question, FTS. “Scientologists,” as a term is both specific and amorphous.

    When I was a Scientologist, I used Hubbard's definitions. Here are a few:


    Scientologists are roughly hominids who comply with Scientology-related policies, orders or intentions and call themselves Scientologists.

    The Scientologists’ collaborators are hominids who comply with Scientology-dictated policies, orders or intention and call themselves wogs, or homo sapiens, or human beings, or persons, or anything but Scientologists. I don’t think that the lettuce farmer who fulfills an order for 115 heads of lettuce a day at Gilman Hot Springs is therefore a collaborator with the Scientologists because he complies with their produce orders, any more than I would think that the farmer who delivered 15 heads of lettuce to Osama Bin Laden’s camp in Afghanistan was necessarily an al Qaeda collaborator. Collaboration is working together. It is neutral. Collaboration with the enemy is commonly treason.

    Gerry and I also collaborate. We work very close, indeed we act in concert. We work to free everyone so they can discuss their experiences and knowledge.

    The Scientologists and their collaborators comprise a criminal conspiracy to deprive citizens of their basic human rights, to prevent them from discussing their experiences and knowledge. Relevant collaborators with the Scientologists are wogs who collaborate and who know, or ought to know, better. The Scientologists’ attorneys are good examples. Everyone knows that the wogs among those attorneys collaborate with the Scientologists. The Scientologists’ wog attorneys are paid millions to collaborate with the Scientologists. Their collaboration is in large part in the suppression and destruction of both wogs’ and Scientologists’ psyches, lives and basic human rights. But there are citizens in classes beyond lawyers who collaborate with the Scientologists in their war on wogs: media, intel, PIs, PRs, politicians, dupes, psychopaths, etc. Why exactly any or all of these people collaborate with the Scientologists is in many instances unanswered.

    In the example you provided where I used "Scientologists and their collaborators," I was talking in the context of their attacking and threatening:

    Scientologists attack and threaten people in my class in application of their SP doctrine, and justify their attacks and threats with this doctrine. As I was explaining to Pirate and Bum earlier in the thread, the issue is the SP doctrine, and Scientologists are determined largely by the doctrine. How Scientologists may further identify among themselves or others is quite irrelevant in this context. No Scientologist of any faction or splinter has ever repudiated the SP doctrine that I know of.
  13. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I'm reminded very much recently of one of the reasons I dumped scientology ... there was always way too much endless, wordy, paranoid waffling and overly significant 'make wrong' that never went anywhere worthwhile or achieved a single damn thing while using words like 'wog' (which I abhor).

    Dunno what's happening around here but I'm off to do something pleasant and lighthearted for a while before I lose the will to live.

  14. Just for you , Trouble....

    The Anabaptist Jacques
  15. Emma

    Emma Con te partirò Administrator

    "fixing your questions" WTF?

    I think you need to look at how you address us plebs Caroline. We don't want lectures. We don't want condescension. And we really don't want to have have to "fix our questions" for you so you deem them up to a certain standard to be answered.

    FFS. :duh:
  16. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    I think I agree with the second paragraph. On the first part, if they use it in a recipe and they consume what is made using the recipe they are suckers.
  17. degraded being

    degraded being Sponsor

    What about the label "extremists" that you use while trying to make your point?

    I don't think the label "scientologists" is always important to me. Sometimes it might be useful, but scientologists are not all the same, so context is important.
    On the "dogpiler" label, where do you think that came from; Veda? He used it and got dogpiled using the term itself, as part of the dogpiling on him --as though he dreamed it up. He didn't AFAIK, others have used it in the past to protest about posters here getting rough treatment; especially, new posters. Perhaps one or two who actually dogpiled Veda, partly for using that term, used it to protest others being dogpiled. I am 95% sure of that, from memory.
  18. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    I've changed my mind.. I'm gonna say something in here anyway.. I think Gerry and Caroline are great! They are untiringly talking shit about the Sinister Scam Cult of Scientology. I like that.. Gerry left the cult carrying doc's, not something insignificant either: Hubbard's Admissions.. Caroline maintains one of the best websites for documenting CofS's nefarious policies.. I like all that too!

    They know who the 'enemy' are.. Usually..

    Allright, Caroline has been telling us a lot of things lately.. But since my mum told me: 'If you ain't got nutting good to say, keep ye'r mouth shut!', I will studiously not say a damned thing!

  19. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    From wikipedia:

    The ideology that has been expressed by certain people is far outside what I perceive as the political centre on the issue of Freezoners or Independent Scientologists. To me, it is extremist. I make no apology for that. My point was not about pointing a finger to a particular person and saying, "Oh, the extremist has spoken!" or "Another extreme comment from an extremist, I see." My point was to describe the fundamentalist fervour I perceive in trying to inflict one's views on others who are basically minding their own business. I hope that clarifies my position.

    No, what Veda did was to use the term "dogpiler" like Scientology would use "hater". It was not cool. That is my view and I don't resile from it.