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What went on in the Cadet Org?

Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by duddins, Nov 11, 2007.

  1. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    We would love to hear your story. I bet we crossed paths if you were in LA at all. I have written my story here on ESMB. While not complete - it tells quite a bit about what it is like to be born and raised in Scn and the SO.

    PM me if you want. Happy to chat!
  2. ignatz

    ignatz Patron

    Yes I'm definitely going to PM you!
  3. drago

    drago New Member

  4. drago

    drago New Member

    I was in the ceo from the day it opened.
  5. drago

    drago New Member

    iwas at the melrose and the ceo. Anne Zanier and Judy Dickson
  6. drago

    drago New Member

    I was one of those kids on the streets of hollwood taking drugs
  7. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    While this "may" be true TODAY, I never saw anything close to this when I observed the Flag Cadet Org between 1984 until about 1997.

    I had two children born and raised in the Sea Org (always at Flag). The Cadet staff were very much indoctrinated into the notion of "well fed and rested". The kids were heavily monitored and "put to bed" by a certain time that would ensure their rest. They were "handled" if they didn't eat well. They were indoctrinated into the notion that they should always be "well fed and rested". That idea and practice was "enforced".

    Now, some might say that "the truth was hidden from you", and you "didn't really know what was going on". I routed out of the Sea Org in 1986. I lived in Clearwater and saw my kids twice every week, for all day and overnight visits. Many of their Cadet friends visited with them (from the age of 4 until 14).

    I knew the Cadet staff very well, was in great communication with them, knew many of the Sea Org parents, because the parents let their kids visit to my home during the week and on days off. I OFTEN watched the kids in event evenings, so that the SO staff could attend the event. I was given lists of kids, in different age groups, with their EXACT schedules of WHEN they HAD to be in bed by. I was expected to enforce it just as they did.

    The ONLY time it was not enforced was when there was a special occassion. The kids might have a "party" or have a "group movie" in the galley area. This was NOT uncommon. I watched over the Cadets at least a half dozen times when a movie was shown - again so the SO staff could attend some briefing or event.

    The Cadets would OCCASSIONALLY go into the base to help on some project, but this was not very common. They were home by dinner. They did love the helping out when they had to work by the water with the "boats".

    Yes, they had schedules and "posts" to attend at the Cadet Org. I remember when my daughter was about eleven years old and she was the afternoon "receptionist" for awhile. She sat at a desk, and answered phones. She would call me sometimes and we would shoot the breeze. Or one of her friends or one of my son's friends would call asking what movie we were going to watch at the party or at my home this week-end.

    There was the occassional "lice" outbreak, and all the kids knew the drill - they would twin up and "nitpick" for hours. They would have an "all-hands" and wash all of the sheets and bedding.

    I would see the Cadets heading out on week-ends to go to the Mall or movies. In little groups. I would see some at the local Taco Bell (around the corner). The older ones would take buses with friends to further away areas. Some of the parents bought their kids video games and playstations (Andrew Rabey, son of Clive Rabey, had a GREAT game setup, and many of his friends played it often)

    I NEVER saw any of the kids "stressed" from "overwork" or "lack of sleep". Yes, SOME were in a sense "abandoned" by their partents, because some parents NEVER took libs or came home for "family time". But then MANY did. Also, some of the staff at ther Cadet Org WERE "very loving and caring" of the children. Theresa McNichols and Italia (last name?) were very kind and decent people, no matter what pressure might come down the lines. Rusty Hilton was the CO Cadet Org for quite awhile and he was a "nice guy" to and with the kids.

    I kept close watch of MY KIDS, and I can assure you that they were NEVER "abused". I dropped in at the Cadet org a few times every week in addition to picking up my kids and their friends for visiting with me. I have direct REAL experience and observations. I NEVER saw any other kids "abused". Yes, once they were forced into the Sea Org at about age 14, then the insanity began in earnest. I knew MANY of the kids who were brought up in the Cadet Org over a great MANY years, up close and personal, and I NEVER saw any "abuse". They were for the most part "happy kids". Almost all the kids who visited with me spoke freely. Many of the parents had "hidden TVs" and let their kids watch movies, despite whatever nonsense was being pushed down the lines by the newest CMO mission.

    I would get a talking to every once in awhile after some kid who had been visiting with my son complained about "violence" in Terminator 2 or some other "action movie". I would get shown some "reference" about how "movies key in engrams". But then, parents of kids would write notes to the Cadet staff telling them that it was entirely OKAY for their kids to watch whatever I wanted to show them (since their own parents let them see whatever they wanted to see in terms of movies).

    Granted, right near the end the CMO missions really started pushing in "no fraternizing with the public" idea, and Sea Org staff and cadets were no longer allowed to visit with non-Sea Org people - even if Scientology public. But, the kids of my friends still SNUCK away and managed.

    I was talking to my daughter (now age 30) last week about the Cadet Org. She lived there for most of her young life. I asked her honestly if ANYTHING bad ever happened to her, and how she feels about it in retrospect. Now understand that she HATES Scientology and the Sea Org due to other shit that happened when she was older and out of the Cadet Org. She said that she enjoyed it, had many friends, liked doing the "work" from a young age, and almost wished that there could be a similar communal environment for her own 2 month old daughter - but WITHOUT all the indoctrination into crazy Scientology ideas.

    They did have "school" five days every week. She studied math, read books, read science, and much more all in addition to the usual diet of Hubbard's nuttiness. Yeah they had musters, but it was "kids putting up with a small amount of necessary bullshit".

    I NEVER saw or heard of ANY kid there "sell their favours, presumably for chocolate bar or packet of cigarettes". I think YOU are deluding YOURSELF. Many of the kids got a weekly allowance in the Cadet Org. They had enough to go out to Taco Bell on the week-end, go to a movie, or buy some candy. Also, obviously the parents of many of the kids who visited with my kids gave their kids additional money - because they often had money to spend when I took them to the movies or out to eat at restaurants. And I would pay if they didn't.

    Granted, the QI NOW has a fence around it. Maybe all of the "going out on their own on libs" has been curtailed. It may be VERY DIFFERENT now. I am describing how it was when my kids grew up there between about 1984 and 1997.

    I know that some people want EVERYTHING about Scientology to suck. There is enough really BAD about the Church of Scientology, just as it is, without having to embellish, exaggerate and misrepresent things that aren't so bad. :confused2:

    I saw enough exaggeration and misrepresentation while involved with the Church of Scientology. Sometimes I would like to see less of it here on ESMB. :nervous:

    I am basing my ideas about the Cadet Org on what I personal saw over a great many years. Of course, I try to base my IDEAS on actual events and situations. I would change my ideas if I could read some actual stories of cadets who had entirely different experiences. I understand that my view is based on my own personal limited experiences in one Cadet Org during one specific time period.
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2011
  8. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader


    My story in the Cadet Org is in my story, and it is very, very different from what you say here.

    Granted, I was in the Cadet Org at PAC mostly. That one was quite different than Flag Cadet Org. I was at the Flag Cadet Org for 2 months in 1982 and as far as I remember, it was mostly alright.

    But PAC Cadet Org was way different. Very out of control.
  9. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    In 1984 my wife came home to the QI for parent time and drove in and found our son was hanging by his hands from the balcony on the upper floor. That would be our deaf/blind son.

    Sorry Gad but I think you may have missed some things.

    And, seriously, you think that an insane, totalitarian cult can possibly organize sane child care? It's an impossibility Gad. In 1994 at that same Land Base Tony Strawn was busy molesting his step daughters and the CofS was trying to cover it up.
  10. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Are you ok now?
  11. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I am sure I missed some things. We ALL "miss some things". We only see and experience what we see and experience depending on where we are at any moment. None of us have the privilege or ability to see EVERYTHING about some situation, especially when spread out over large amounts of space and time.

    I only saw what I saw (when I was there).

    I am sure that if I took the time to assimilate reports from MANY other people of THEIR unique personal experiences, that my view would "expand". But, so much to do, so little time. I simply reported what I SAW. It isn't "all of it", but it IS a honest "part of it". Just as your report of your son hanging from the second floor balcony is an honest and valid report. All (accurate) reports TAKEN TOGETHER would get "closer" to the "truth".

    Also, it started getting worse when the fences started going up around all the Sea Org facilities (including the QI) in about 1997. Security and control were VERY much getting stepped up. Family times were being CUT, so that children were seeing their parents less and less.

    There ARE many contradictions in Scientology theory and practice.

    Note: Scientology is set up with ethics and OSA to keep ALL "entheta" ("inconvenient truths") off the lines of the staff. Most staff on Flag probably NEVER heard anything about "Land Base Tony Strawn busy molesting his step daughters". They keep all of that sort of data VERY "compartmentalized". OSA operates that way in general. Most staff and public have no idea what they do and what they keep "hidden".

    My main point is that I know people personally who grew up in the Flag Cadet Org and they had no problems with any of it really. And, of course, that doesn't mean that there were those who look back and had REAL problems with it. I just don't happen to know THEM.

    I was presenting my "slice of reality", as it was for me and for those I knew. We each only ever "see" an infinitesimal part of "reality". To gain a more accurate "view" requires collecting reports from MANY people. Mine is just ONE of MANY (different) reports.
  12. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I don't doubt it at all.

    Back in the day, before modern Scientology management implemented such drastic control over all the orgs, each org was VERY different from others. And as some have reported, things were very different depending on the time period one was there.

    Maybe my kids were lucky.

    Also, I remember "helping out" at the Cadet Org when I was out of the Sea Org. I donated books, arranged bedding for the young kids to rest on in the afternoons, obtained some animals for the "zoo", repaired broken A/C units, etc. I did what I could to "improve the conditions". Not a lot, but at least some.

    It was not all black or white - nothing is. And, while I may have been lucky to experience more of the "white" in this case, in my case, no doubt others experienced more of the "black", and were not so lucky.

    In PT, with what I know now, I would NEVER allow any child of mine to be involved in anything with Scientology, much less a "cadet org".
  13. I have to say that I was never in the cadet org, but I started in the SO when I was 15. I had to stop reading the recounting of the story at the beginning of this thread several times as I cried. I remembered a lot of the things that she said and a bunch of it read as my story too. My epf was done in Los Angeles, and the conditions were horrible. My parents were on staff when I was young and remember spending almost a year without seeing my mom, and then my dad would leave and would be gone for a year at a time. Training in NY etc.... It was a very sad and dark time of my life.
  14. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Welcome purpleheather69. My kids also found it all to go very much downhill once they were forced to join the Sea Org at age 14.

    My daughter considers age 15-19 to be the absolute worse time in her life - while in the Sea Org. It took her many years to get over the intense mental and emotional abuse that she was put through.

    Feel free to share your story here. ESMB is a great place to find people who can REALLY UNDERSTAND what you went through, and who are familiar with the crap the Sea Org does to people.
  15. Thank you Gadfly. I have to think of all the things that went on and put them in order. But I will work on my story and let you all know. I just remember living in cockroach infested dorms. I remember that I was on the RPF for a while at 15 and cleaning dumpsters at CC, diging shit out of pipes, climbing in sub basements and my stat for the day was how many cockroaches I smushed. I never had my own uniform since my org couldn't afford it, so I borrowed other SO members ones and they were too small, my feet hurt from wearing shoes that were a size too small, but would get into trouble if my uniform wasn't up to snuff. I was felt like I wasn't a person. Before I went into the SO, my parents were on staff and I NEVER saw them. I raised my brother myself, alone. I wouldn't see them and I was 9 and he was 5. I cooked and cleaned and did my homework all by myself. It was the most lonely time of my life. And now, my brother is on staff in LA and he doesn't even talk to me. Co$ is supposed to be about all of your dynamics, yet he doesn't even care about his 2nd at all!!!! When my mom and dad were always away in NY training for a year at a time, we lived with a babysitter who treated us like shit. I hated my life and would dream of having real parents. This organization is a lie.....Elli and Jeremy Perkins were my friends, I grew up with Jeremy and Elli was like my second mom. I lived through so much. How do I recover?????
  16. Demented LRH

    Demented LRH Patron Meritorious

    I was in Sea Org, but I never heard about Cadet Org. Is this Org for underaged kids?
  17. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    The Cadet Org at Flag had kids from age "newborn" up until about age 14 - when they were recruited (forced) into the Sea Org.

    At some point they tried to stop accepting recruits with kids under the age of 6 or so, because it takes extra resources to handle the younger children and infants. But, it wasn't always followed. For instance of they could get a Cl VI or Cl VIII auditor for the NOTS HGC at Flag, they still might allow the recruit with younger kids.

    Most major Sea Org facilites had some sort of "Cadet Org". When I was at FOLO EUS in the late 1970s, there was no "Cadet Org" there, and the young babies and younger kids stayed in the NY Org "nursery".

    I have no idea what it is like at FOLO EUS today.

    Sometimes the FOLO is near a major Sea Org "base", so they share the "nanny" or "cadet org" facilities. I assume the Cadet Org in LA serves ASHO, AOLA, the FSCs, and the FOLO WUS. Maybe all of "INT" and "Gold" too.
  18. Soul of Ginnungagab

    Soul of Ginnungagab Patron with Honors

    Even I reply to the whole of your post I have snipped it as anyone can click on the link to your post and read the lot.

    What I became concerned about when reading your post was that it points out to me that many people in the org did care and were able to perform that care under whatever tough conditions that existed. I think that that is important and I think that many people stayed in Scientology for so long not just because they strongly believed in the subject but also because they met people who cared. After all many, probably even most people, joined the subject (either as paying public or as staff) because they care and honestly believed in that affiliation. People who care comfort the soul.
  19. free1996

    free1996 Patron with Honors

    There was no compassion or caring people only adults looking to protect their ass from getting in trouble or RPFed. The kids in turn learned to develop the same thick skin and became little tyrants (CMO Messengers) themselves. For the rest of us, we would constantly be on mess work or put on the children's RPF. I wanted to choke when I saw the comment that "some most have cared".

    For a small group of us, we were molested down in the basement of the CEO by a man that was still in PAC among us. We had a bus driver who would tie kids up for misbehaving. We were swatted constantly in private or in front of the other kids as the adults were only "following policies on discipline".

    We were bred to join the S.O. and forced to sign a contract or go to ethics. We were denied leave to be with our parents if we were down stat or refused to follow orders.

    No nanny or teacher can say they taught us anything educational or useful in real life. And no nanny or teacher can deny that abuse was not common or that children cried for their parents only to be yelled at or put on mess work.

    We went to a public school twice for short periods and trust me we all were a bunch of rock heads. We went to a elementary school next to CC for a year or less when we were at the CEO and then 1 year or less in a middle school in Burbank.

    We were forced to give out Way to Happiness books to pass out in middle school which got us in major trouble with the principal. Often us kids were picked on or bullied constantly. My teacher had to keep me in her class during lunch so that I wouldn't be punched or kicked by other students.

    Bottom line is that the Cadet Org was like a concentration camp where our own parents had no choice in our upbringing. Our parents were poor role models and the adults that cared for us were just as bad as they would watch what was going on and do nothing or they were the ones imposing it.
  20. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Mine above in BOLD.

    You last paragraph is truly remarkable. While my kids never at any time felt that "Cadet Org was like a concentration camp", largely because I was there as a continual "outside influence", no doubt that was the experience for many.

    I have been somewhat locked into and my view affected my own unqiue experiences, where my kids had it okay, and where for the most part the staff at the Cadet Org CW were often "kind and caring". But, you just opened up my eyes to the fact that even there at CW, because of the fact that many kids rarely or never saw their parent, that what you say is exactly true:

    The Cadet Org was like a concentration camp where our own parents had no choice in our upbringing.

    The worse part was that the kids' own parents were often not even INVOLVED in their own kids' upbringing! :bigcry: