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What went on in the Cadet Org?

Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by duddins, Nov 11, 2007.

  1. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    These words from the "Founder" and "Source," in this lecture, certainly don't discourage the molesting of what are known to "Wogs," "Homo Saps," and "Raw Meat" as "children," but are recognized by an educated Scientologist as ancient "thetans" who happen to be inhabiting little bodies. I wonder how many "OT" child molesters have rationalized their actions with this Hubbardian "reasoning"? Relevant sections are 1:17 -1:32 and 3:05 - 3:11:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeMQIO3TgyM&feature=player_embedded

    "The GE [Genetic Entity] is a family man. The GE is lost without the family. It's very strange but Homo Sap is a family unit. The GE is built on that basis...

    "And your thetan, by the way, can much more easily go into a group. Families are not good groups."

    From 10 December 1952, 'Flows, Patterns, and Intention', PDC lecture series.
     
  2. Gadfly, I believe you that this is your reality, and true for you. I think you are someone who would have stood up and defended children if you had witnessed overts committed against them. But I also know that most children who are abused, shamed or sexually molested never tell anyone about it. The cases that we actually hear about are the minority of cases that actually occur.

    Chances are very good that some of those kids that you are talking about who you perceive "had no problems" while in the cadet Org are in denial, or are keeping secrets. They may have witnessed or been victims or perpetrators of abuses, and have just buried it and are not talking.

    This is really pretty common for survivors. Many do not speak out for decades, if ever.

    Not to contradict you, but the people I know IRL who were raised in the Cadet Org were greatly harmed by their experiences there, and are still healing from very difficult childhoods.

    I like you, and I don't mean to offend you personally, but I think that any parent who feeds their minor child into the Sea ORG, with all that is known about that group, is guilty of child abuse and ought to lose their parental rights!!! I'd much rather have those teen-aged kids in wog foster care, as deficient and damaged as that system is. (I know whereof I speak, I've worked for a foster care program.) At least they will get educated, counseling and health care, and some support in learning independent living skills! They would be so much better off!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
  3. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I am rarely offended and did not take it personally.

    Yeah, like I said in an earlier post here, with what I know NOW, I would never under any circumstances allow any child that I had anything to do with enter the Sea Org or the Cadet Org. Or, anything to do with the Church of Scientology.

    There may be more than meets the eye, just as you say, with "most children who are abused, shamed or sexually molested never tell anyone about it", and "the cases that we actually hear about are the minority of cases that actually occur". But, also I am not about to "dub-in" and assume things to be there that are not.

    There is no doubt that the Church of Scientology has a long history of and is notorious for covering up ANYTHING that would make it look bad, including instances of child abuse, sexual abuse and many other things that have occurred within the Scientology organization. Just as did the Catholic Church with the cases of child molestation by priests. I am quite sure that in both cases NOBODY is/was encouraging "child sexual abuse", but that it does/did happen and THEN gets/got "covered up" is something else. Just like with Richard Nixon and Watergate, or Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky, they probably would have been FAR better off if they had simply ADMITTED the wrong-doing in the beginning. It seems that MORE crimes and trouble come from the "cover-up". The Church of Scientology ALWAYS "covers-up".

    None of us have the ability to "know" with actual observations what happened FULLY, from every angle, over large time spans, in almost ANY area of life. We do the best we can with first-hand knowledge (which is horribly limited) and with reports from others (second-hand data).

    Well, I do not like contrived imaginary "moral dilemmas" such as a choice between ONLY "foster care" or "the Cadet Org". Luckily, I don't have to make such a choice. Neither do most other people. It involves an exaggerated and unreal scenario. But some people like such things. I don't care for them myself.

    But, as I said, with what I saw personally, I still very much have the view that with what I know NOW, I would never under any circumstances allow any child that I had anything to do with enter the Sea Org or the Cadet Org. Or, anything to do with the Church of Scientology.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
  4. free1996

    free1996 Patron with Honors

    QUOTE=SweetnessandLight;633657]Gadfly, I believe you that this is your reality, and true for you. I think you are someone who would have stood up and defended children if you had witnessed overts committed against them. But I also know that most children who are abused, shamed or sexually molested never tell anyone about it. The cases that we actually hear about are the minority of cases that actually occur.

    This is very true as I just recently talked with an old friend who was also being molested down in the CEO basement and all these years later she wanted to talk about it as she never spoke word about it when we were kids. The older kids had to do "more" and I know who the other kids are but for their privacy I don't say anything.

    Whereas us younger kids had to touch, suck and take it in return. The youngest girl I knew was 6 (the one who contacted me) as I was about 8-9yrs old too.
    He would threaten to take our sister's next if we said anything and when you thought of your sister going through the same pain and awkwardness, you prefer to keep your mouth shut.


    Chances are very good that some of those kids that you are talking about who you perceive "had no problems" while in the cadet Org are in denial, or are keeping secrets. They may have witnessed or been victims or perpetrators of abuses, and have just buried it and are not talking.

    This is really pretty common for survivors. Many do not speak out for decades, if ever.

    Not to contradict you, but the people I know IRL who were raised in the Cadet Org were greatly harmed by their experiences there, and are still healing from very difficult childhoods.

    I like you, and I don't mean to offend you personally, but I think that any parent who feeds their minor child into the Sea ORG, with all that is known about that group, is guilty of child abuse and ought to lose their parental rights!!! I'd much rather have those teen-aged kids in wog foster care, as deficient and damaged as that system is. (I know whereof I speak, I've worked for a foster care program.) At least they will get educated, counseling and health care, and some support in learning independent living skills! They would be so much better off!!![/QUOTE]
     
  5. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest

    I was a nanny in the Child Estates Org (child care for all SO members in LA) for about a year in 1977. I also was the 3rd Missionaire on two missions to the CEO from 1976-1977, both were move missions - one to the Fountain Building that was once rented across the street from AOLA's building, and the other was to the area that was used at CCLA.

    In 1982 I gave birth to a child while in the SO who was in the CEO for a few months before being in outside childcare. I was an Exec Esto at AOLA and visited the CEO regularly in that time.

    It is a statement of fact by my direct observation that in the period of 1977-1986 the CEO was criminally undermanned with 2 to 3 times the legal ratio of children to supervising adults or nannies and ALL children there, without exception, suffered from criminal neglect and lack of adequate supervision, love and care.

    The only exception was a brief period of 6-9 months when the children were first moved to the Celebrity Centre. That is the only time the ratios were legal or close to it during that period.

    The staff also were never adequately supervised, trained or screened. Anything could have happened to any of those kids in that time. They were at great risk.
     
  6. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    [/QUOTE]

    I remember this too, though I was not one of the kids molested. I remember that something came up about one of the nannies (red headed male) having molested children. None of the kids were coming forward, so all of the kids got locked up in the basement of the CEO for hours until someone would talk. Do you remember that?
     
  7. yes...

    compare the realities of childhood and parenting inside the organization with the chart of human evaluation...

    in fact compare everything inside CoS with the COHE
     
  8. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat


    Good god.

    Being abused about being abused.
     
  9. cadet

    cadet Patron

    Free speaks the truth and well.

    Even after spending the day not learning anything at the CEO, or the school in Burbank, or the one in West Covina, etc. We would then return to the ATA, just to be sent out "on mission", which is when the institutional abuse began in earnest.

    Our "missions" consisted of the crappiest jobs available, those that the powers that be did not want to waste SO members on, but were not physically demanding enough for RPFers. Like never ending CF projects, working in the main mess serving all the adults, busing their trays and generally being treated like slave labor. To add to the misery, at least SO members got $30 or $50 (depending on the era), the kids got $0-$2 per week for working 30+ hours.

    These super awesome missions would generally continue until late at night, 10pm or later, at which point we would have cal mag forcibly rammed down our throats and then we would be sent to sleep on crappy cots that were half as long as our bodies. We would not be picked up until our parents got off post at 12am or later, if they got off post.

    There were two rooms, the big course room and the little course room, with 20+ girls in one and 20+ guys in the other. I remember being overjoyed, like a normal kid would be on Christmas, when we one day got full length old army cots to sleep on, I think I might have even shed a tear. How pathetic is that?

    We had no choice in any of this. We were born and bread to be ignorant, vicious and emotionless slaves. It was lord of the flies, supervised by the sea org members too incompetent to hold a "real" post and countenanced, at least tacitly, by "parents" who were too busy saving the world to care about their own children. We were treated in a manner consistent with rowdy and disobedient pets more than actual human beings.

    How do parents do that? I have children of my own now and I know without any reservation, that it takes a chilling and demented thoughtlessness to put your child in an environment like that. The fact that to this day most people seem more concerned with how much someone should charge to teach people about mythical aliens in volcanoes, or whether or not Ideal Orgs are on policy blows my mind.

    Obviously I am angry that I was cheated and betrayed. I want to make it clear however, that I am not angry at DM specifically and whoever else people are blaming today, or at least no more angry at him than anyone else. I am angry at every single person who saw any Sea Org member under the age of 18, or one of those pathetic malnourished and dirty creatures they called cadets and did not do anything about it.

    I see comments all the time on here making fun of how people had to do ethics cycles with 13 year old MAA's like it is a big joke. Fuck you, that is a child who has been lied to and abused. Yet all some people seem to care about is how they gave too much money, or how the "tech" was not standard, how the IAS is the problem, etc.

    For any parent trying to delude themselves that their kid was not screwed up by being sent to the cadet org, you are wrong. You committed a heinous "overt". Your kids will tell you what you want to hear, that it was not that bad, that it made them stronger, etc. I know because I have told my parents those same things and still cannot tell them how I really feel. What purpose would it serve anyway, it cannot be undone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2012
  10. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest

    Welcome to ESMB, Cadet. :hug:

    I know what you went through. http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s2903129.htm

    My heart bleeds for you. :bigcry: and I know all you are saying is true and I support every word of your testimony here.

    You are brave for coming forward to tell your story. By doing so, you have broken the "Code of Silence" about all the terrible things that went on in Scientology - a code that created victims in itself, because of the lying that was done between us, to each other, and to the outside world, when we were in.

    Although you believe it wouldn't do any good to tell your parents, here I think you may be mistaken. How else can you bring about healing for your family? These things need to be brought out into the open and aired and resolved so that everyone can move on. If your parents left Scn or the Sea Org, they probably have terrible guilt about how you were treated. They will want your forgiveness and to do right by you. You also will need to know they are truly sorry, don't you? And to know that and be able to forgive them.

    If you feel uncomfortable talking about this on your own with your parents, there are experienced counselors who are more than willing to do this for you, including a number of ex's right here on ESMB.

    We are all behind you, C. With our love and support. The real kind, the kind that understands and will stick it out with you. :yes:

    :bighug:

    I'm so sorry I ever supported that horrible cult. Hang in there. We'll do all we can to help you set things right in your life so that the rest of it is joyful.

    Sheila
     
  11. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Welcome Cadet. I second what Gottabrain says. When the time is right, it can be a very healing thing to discuss it with your parents. I didn't go through anything like you have, and both my parents have now told me they were sorry for the past in terms of being a parent, it does clear the air and lets us get on with life in a somewhat better way.

    I agree with you that the child abuse is the worst thing about scientology. And that's why I am here and won't rest until it does not happen anymore.
     
  12. GreyLensman

    GreyLensman Silver Meritorious Patron

    Inverted power. Destructive in actual observable results.

    Thank you for posting this.
     
  13. GreyLensman

    GreyLensman Silver Meritorious Patron

    My child was born in summer of 1986. I left staff for good in June, for exactly this reason - it was not possible to be staff and care for your kids in a responsible manner. It was hard to impossible as public, much worse for staff. This was org, not SO - can't imagine the nightmare that was the SO.
     
  14. cadet

    cadet Patron

    I appreciate this and some similar missives from a couple of other people who have conveyed these kind of sentiments to me. It is certainly nice to hear that people care, unfortunately it is too late to matter for me. I would prefer that people take whatever messages of sympathy they may have had for me and tell those things to the children suffering right now. Whereas I am past the point of caring, it might actually mean a lot to them.

    Just to be clear I "disconnected" from my parents, of my own accord, because I will never forgive or forget. I have no need to talk with anyone else about this either, unless it is a former cadet who wants to talk to me for some reason.

    I am communicating on here only because I want people to get the children out and because I want those responsible, either through malice or ignorance, to know the consequences of their actions.

    I am particularly interested in getting a message across to all the self indulgent assholes who are now out and like to whine about all of their misfortunes at the hands of the church. Meanwhile they sacrificed their families and children in pursuit of their own narcissistic and idiotic quest for eternal salvation.

    I just want those people to know that they are a bunch of vile and irredeemable subhumans who deserve whatever suffering might have befallen them and then some. I suppose I have some faint and fluttering hope that maybe even one person might be motivated enough by their shame and pain to do something about the kids that are in there suffering right now.

    Thanks for listening.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  15. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    I thought the Cadet Org was no longer... Does it still exist?

    (For people who were in in the earlier days, the mental conditioning started BEFORE the Cadet Org: In the CEO, which was for toddlers and babies. That was where my conditioning started. I remember recently thinking about the fact that I have never in my life worked less than 60 hours per week - even to this day. The Cadet Org was exhausting physically and mentally and I am STILL trying to wrap my wits around that conditioning.)
     
  16. cadet

    cadet Patron

    Thankfully the cadet org is gone, but when I say children and kids I mean the many minors that are in right now and will be recruited tomorrow. I probably should have drawn more of a distinction. I was also in the CEO... unfortunately.
     
  17. Coyote13

    Coyote13 Thought Criminal

    Is the dark haired dude named Jose? And are the pics really from 1985( it looks familiar) or was the original date of the 70's correct? I was older than those kids there, but my little sister was like 3 or 4 at the time.
     
  18. Coyote13

    Coyote13 Thought Criminal

    Quoted from Beakiddo( the quote thing didnt work like it ussually does for me

    "I remember this too, though I was not one of the kids molested. I remember that something came up about one of the nannies (red headed male) having molested children. None of the kids were coming forward, so all of the kids got locked up in the basement of the CEO for hours until someone would talk. Do you remember that?"[/QUOTE]

    Did his name start with a J? Did he drive the bus sometimes? I remember a red headed dude at the CEO in '84/'85, we sang a song about him "whistle while you work, Jim is a jerk". Peace and blessings.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2012
  19. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    Did his name start with a J? Did he drive the bus sometimes? I remember a red headed dude at the CEO in '84/'85, we sang a song about him "whistle while you work, Jim is a jerk". Peace and blessings.[/QUOTE]

    Maybe hi name was Jim. I can't say for sure. He was 1/2 balding, light red hair with a big belly. That was all I remember about him. He was never my nanny. I barely knew him. But I got locked up in the basement with everyone else.
     
  20. Warrior

    Warrior Patron with Honors

    Maybe hi name was Jim. I can't say for sure. He was 1/2 balding, light red hair with a big belly. That was all I remember about him. He was never my nanny. I barely knew him. But I got locked up in the basement with everyone else.[/QUOTE]

    Jim Garrett had red hair. Is that who you're thinking of?

    Warrior - Sunshine disinfects
    http://warrior.xenu.ca