ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Who is Geir Isene?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by skollie, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Traditional Sea Org Ethics -
    No Report - Liability
    False Report - Doubt

    Obviously, resorting to physical violence and denying basic human rights indicates a much lower condition than Doubt.
  2. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    None of it is something Isene is doing.
  3. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Isene didn't say anything against Scientology. Just against the Church.
    And didn't say anything against any Scientologist in good standing with Scn Orgs. "David Miscavige promised there will be a new Saint
    Hill size org presented at every international event thereafter" is a completely neutral statement like "The president promised a bright future".

    All I am saying is that even the PUBLICATION of that Doubt Write-Up is not a High Crime, even by the Church's own standards.
  4. sandygirl

    sandygirl Silver Meritorious Patron

    Welcome Geir!

    I enjoyed reading your doubt formula and agreed with it, especially where you write about the way you are treated by sea org. members and staff if you do not sign the contract or cough up the money they are after.

    I was a public, much lower on the bridge than you, and could not take the horrible treatment from the "missionaires" who claimed to be "hand-picked by COB". They were crude, rude, and in some cases, almost enjoyed the bullying of public too much. When it extended to harrassement of my family in OUR OWN HOME it became too much. My children were actually AFRAID when the phone rang or doorbell sounded. That was my "final straw" and I haven't looked back.

    For a while after leaving I still clung to some church teachings, but now sift the chaff from the wheat and I am open to all sources of knowledge. I no longer see Scientology as the "only hope of mankind" as IMHO there are many other groups and religions that have accomplished more advancement for society than COS.

    Thank your for your posting. I would be very curious (morbidly I know) to hear about the home invasions and phone calls you recieve. I have been out for 3 years, changed my #, and am STILL RECIEVING CALLS!!:duh: :duh:

    I have feeling your well written formula will have quite an impact...........
  5. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Geez, there is no such thing as some over-generalized term called "scientology", not to "leave" anyway.

    The Ethics Book refers ONLY TO the official Church of Scientology when it comes to SP Declares and suppressive acts. They are pulling all the strings in that context. There is no "Scientology" outside of the Church of Scientology as far as the severe behaviors, PR, and well-organized lunacy is concerned. Yes, Scientology as a SUBJECT exists anywhere when people choose to study and apply it in some way. But THAT is not part of the massive control operation known as the Church of Scientology.

    Isene may think in his mind that he is not "leaving" the SUBJECT of Scientology, but he is VERY MUCH leaving and separating from the current control operation known as the Church of Scientology - which is just about the ONLY thing talked about in newspapers, and on TV.

    Almost every person who "leaves" the C of S gets found guilty of a suppressive act for doing so - along with however many other suppressive acts the justice system can manage to fit into the declare to make it "nice and meaty".

    High Crime:

    Public disavowal of Scientology or Scientologists in good standing with Scientology Organizations.

    Note that if some FZ member disavows some person in the FZ, he will NOT be found guilty of a suppressive act by the official C of S. The word "Scientology" in the above High Crime definition refers to and only to the OFFICIAL RTC-controlled church. The ethics and justice system is a major part of the mechanism of control that is used on Scientology church members.

    Isene is very much DOING that by writing up and publishing his Doubt Formula for all to see. From the viewpoint of the official RTC Church of Scientology, Isene is VERY MUCH "leaving Scientology". Of course, in Isene's mind he may still at this early stage consider himself in some ways a "Scientologist", but it is a two way street with the C of S. Actually, it is a one-way street. The C of S declares anyone and everywhere who will pollute the purity of the highly monitored and controlled "Scientology belief system", and quickly segregates these people out and away from the "dedicated RONBOTS" who play the game entirely within the rules and demands of current INT management. Nobody else is publishing SP Declares, those Goldenrod thingies, except Miscavige's band of lemming-like lunatics.

    Isene is early on in the process. As time goes on he will most likely let more and more of the indoctrination go away. Including the idea that he must still think within the Scientology paradigm, and deal with the world using ideas like "Conditions Formulas".

    But, WELL DONE Geir! You are definitely on the right path now! Keep walking - AWAY from the organized and official RTC-led Church of Scientology.

    KNN - quite playing with words in some intentional or unintentional attempt to deflect and confuse a very simple topic.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
  6. MichelleAsWell

    MichelleAsWell Patron with Honors

    Thank you for doing this.

    I love what you've done and how you've done it. :thumbsup:

    Brilliant! Bravo! :happydance:

    May it reach many.

  7. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Applying laws word by word is no word play.

    Leaving Christianity is not the same as leaving the Catholic Church. And leaving the USA is not the same as giving up citizenship. You try to confuse 2 actions into 1 just because the Church is confusing them already.

    Let me repeat: I don't care how the Church sees it. I was replying to Zinji who stated that "According to L. Ron Hubbard, publicly leaving His 'Church' is a High Crime". Please note that Zinjifar stated "according to Hubbard" and not "according to the COS". And by Hubbard's own Ethics book it's not a High Crime to leave the Church.
  8. Which part of "Scientology Organizations" did you not understand, that is making you this confused?
  9. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Hrmm.....well, I guess supposedly DM is a "Scientologist in Good Standing", so publicly dis-avowing him would be considered a "suppressive act".

    But his status is so murky in many respects: he "resigned" from the SO when he became head of ASI, but he still wears an SO uniform, and leads RTC, etc, etc. Is he a pope or a floor-wax?

    Depends upon the color of his mood ring, I guess.

    But back to the topic, another being achieves Total Freedom!

    :D :D :D
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
  10. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Yes, and it's an OT8. What I like about OTs quitting the Church is that they make the biggest impact!
  11. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Of course they would. They're OT. :)

  12. On a serious note, how much money do they suck out of OT VIIIs a year, what type of services are mandatory for OT VIIIs?
  13. Cherished

    Cherished Silver Meritorious Patron

  14. Ted

    Ted Gold Meritorious Patron

    Bottom Line:

    A person can't apply an honest Doubt Formula coming out "the wrong way" without incurring a Suppressive Person Declare. :coolwink:
  15. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

  16. Rae

    Rae Patron with Honors

    from another OTVlll

    I just wanted to personally thank you for publishing your very thorough doubt formula. As a New New OTVlll myself, I know the courage it took to do this, especially with all the years, funds and travails we've gone through to get to that "elated" state :lol:

    You are certainly a fine example for others and I wish you the best with your new life.

  17. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Me too, looks like he's on some good comm lines.
  18. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    As you can see being an FZer is a high crime.

    Note that this issue dosn't give an enemy line of naming which organisations
    are splinter groups.

    Note that the 1992 "Enemies list" did, including naming all the groups
    affiliated with Mayo.

    I presume the enemies list was not for broad public consumption?
    Anyone know?
  19. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I believe it was restricted to HCOs only.

  20. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    I think their Friends list is a shorter list at this point..... :D