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Who is Geir Isene?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by skollie, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. byte301

    byte301 Crusader

    Congratulations and welcome to the "dark" side!:D
     
  2. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Wow!

    Isn’t the Internet magical? Someone mentions a person’s name and then they suddenly appear! :ohmy:

    :welcome2:

    Welcome Geir!

    Thank you for making your doubt condition public and for visiting ESMB. Unsurprisingly, I find that I came to many of the same conclusions as yourself. I hope you don’t get too much trouble from the CoS. If you do, please let the world know and don’t be afraid to contact the authorities. If they can’t keep their own ethics in, then they need to be ‘persuaded’.

    I do hope that you tell us some more of your story and how you came to the decision to apply the Doubt formula in the first place. I got into personal trouble several times over the past few years with staff at St Hill for having doubts and wanting to find out more. The implication was that long-term Scientologists like myself should not be having doubts and that there was something wrong with me.

    As an aside, do you know Lars Najbjerg? He is apparently an OTVIII and Norwegian, although living in Denmark now. He has his own website, defending Scientology here: http://freezone.najbjerg.info/

    He sounds like a decent person, but perhaps rather blinded by loyalty.

    Axiom142
     
  3. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    Rathbun on Isene Leaving COS

    Rathbun on Isene Leaving COS:
    HT: WWP
     
  4. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Funny; wasn't Marty one of 'Miscavige's Minions'?

    Zinj
     
  5. Peter Soderqvist

    Peter Soderqvist Patron with Honors

    Soderqvist1: Hi!
    Robert Dam is OT 5 and is from Denmark, and he has also done a similar doubt formula!
    http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/My Doubt.html
     
  6. RolandRB

    RolandRB Rest in Peace

    Hi Geir. Welcome!
     
  7. Doom

    Doom Lurking.

    DOF is bang on, this was restricted to HCO and OSA personnel only
     
  8. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    I am impressed by you and your Doubt formula

    Isene - Great actually hearing from you after reading your Doubt Formula only yesterday. Your formula is a "tour de force". It is extremely well researched, well thought out and logical - also quite inspirational.

    Just a question or two. When I got out, I thought along lines very similar to yours that Scientology and LRH were terrific and it was current management who was entirely the culprit for C of S sinking to its current state. After 4 years of reading the internet, and especially since joining ESMB in February, I have changed my opinion somewhat. I had large gains in Scientology, or at least I perceive that I did, and I am greatfull for being helped through LRH tech and I have seen many others feel this way, but I came to see that the policies which have led church management to sink to its current low state were written and put in place by LRH himself, and he practiced many of DM's practices himself but on a smaller scale. Maybe not as much violent force was used against staff when LRH ran things and maybe there was more sanity and a bigger chance of getting a wrong redressed or getting fair ethics applied but there were still a lot terrible things going on.

    You say you have been researching for two years and a significant portion of your research was reading the posts on this board. My question is, do you believe your current views are your final views on this subject or are your final views still evolving.

    Summary - We have several types of people on ESMB from people who despise LRH and all his tech 100%, to people who still like the tech but have distanced themselves from LRH for one reason or another to people who want to continue using pure LRH tech and who only despise current top C of S management. I started off in the last bracket of the 3 I mentioned and have moved to the second bracket. I am no longer impressed by most people who remain in bracket 3 such as most Freezoners and people who post on Ifachat and I don't read that stuff any longer but then you come out as a bracket 3 person and I am VERY impressed with what you have written. Your doubt formula tends to exert a pull back to bracket 3 but as impressed as I am with your formula, with what I know now, I don't think I could ever go back to believing as Freezoner does.
    lkwdblds
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  9. dianaclass8

    dianaclass8 Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hi Zinj

    He did not commit a supressive act because the Church of Scientology no longer exists; it is the Church of Spiritual Technology, or as they call it "the Scientology religion".

    Leaving the present 'church' is not a supressive act but it is a survival act...capice?


     
  10. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Despising LRH is a waste of time (though reasonable). I refuse to invest my energy in hatred: I choose to focus it on forward progress and understanding.
     
  11. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Huh? No T&A?

    Paul
     
  12. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Well, that too. I'll multi-task between forward progress, understanding, and T&A.
     
  13. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't want to speak for the guy but whatever transition a person makes takes a long time and I doubt any of us knew where we would be a year or two after we left. For me it was definitely a transition from somebody else is fucking it up to it was fucked up from the beginning. There is so much
    material in scn it seems almost impossible to understand how it all got there and it seems very unlikely that there was one single intention from beginning to end. I personally think hubbard was schizo and there was a point where he was trying to do good but Mr. Hyde showed up and it went down from there. But as I've said before knowing what I know now, there is no way I could ever read another HCOB and follow it to the letter because that's what "Ron" said.
     
  14. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Excellent points as usual!

    Thrak, Excellent points as usual! There seemed a point where Hubbard was trying to do good, and was having significant success in the face of hostile governments, the AMA and the like. Those were the "salad" days of Scn or halcyon days of Scientology as I believe the good, fun and prosperous times are called. I was there as a fairly young, idealistic, naive guy living through those times and for awhile, it was a sort of "heaven on Earth". In a way, those of us who experienced it were lucky but it slipped away, slowly at first, and then as if accelerated by jet engines.
    lkwdblds
     
  15. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I agree 100%. I am more of the group 2 fella now.

    But, one of these days I MAY just do the L's in the FZ for the hell of it!

    I used to love getting catapulted out of my head. I may give it a go and see if she (Auditing Tech) still has some of that good ole' magic super-duper key-out punch!

    I am very curious what would happen, because I am pretty keyed-out most of the time now.

    You know it is funny. I can choose to immerse myself in either viewpoint at will. I can see it all just as you describe, seeing much of what Hubbard wrote as looney-tunes, but then I can temporarily say, "GO, assume beingess", and think within the framework of a FZ type person, as long as it is understood that for me I have already discarded all the agreement with OSA tech, the Scientology KSW fanatical identity, nearly all things organizational, most of the abusive aspects of the ethics & justice tech (SPs, declares, KRs), many aspects of staff policy, the idea that there is any validity or worth to INT management, PR tech (understanding the PR Series to be about indoctrination, control, and not "truth"), and so forth. Also, I can comfortably live with the idea that "LRH was a nutjob in many ways, and quite a buffoon"", and then someway also think, "somehow, despite being such an ego-maniac and control freak, he managed to come with some pretty cool stuff". He did have a hefty case of anal-retentive, over-masculinized, alpha, attentiveness to details. Some of that seems to have "paid off" here and there. I see no reason not to fiddle with, and even benefit from some of that.

    I often start the day with 15 minutes of a Spacation Drill (from PAB Book 1):

    "Spacation is Step III of SOP 8. This is a specialized version of nothingness. It is very murderous to aberration. Its first phase is to have the preclear, with his eyes closed "reach" up and find the two corners of the room behiond him and get interested in them and NOT THINK. No matter how bad you feel, or from what, you can always improve with this one. This puts the preclear in present time. And as circuits are never in present time, they key out."

    Step I is pretty cool too actually. "Take Ten Minutes of Nothing". This technique means Oh so literally what it says. It isn't ten minutes of "relaxation" or "relief" or "rest". It isn't ten minutes of you, a body. It means ten minutes of no body, no engrams, no walls, no Mest Universe, no sound, no thought, really nothing. All ones life he is trying to get, to work, to be, to perceive SOMETHING. Now for Ten Minutes ket us have utterly NOTHING. The presclear discovers sooner or latrer he CAN be nothing, that he doesn't have to strive to be. What a relief! LAO TZE was so right about striving".

    And, when I start the day THAT way, I am just so much THERE. The above two drills don't require that you WAIT for auditing to "get there". Just do the drills and learn how to control being there. These are actually versions of Tibetan Buddhist meditation technqiues. But, Hubbard came up with them in terms a westerner can understand. Forget about all the mumbo-jumbo about "circuits", "preclears", "engrams", and just do the drills.

    But, I enjoy and still get a kick out of a great deal of Hubbard's auditing and mental stuff. I never have agreed with any of the people who have tried to "logically" pooh-pooh the auditing tech, because in the end - it always gave me the big bang! I don't care if Xenu was created from a comic book character. I don't even care if it as entirely fabricated (what isn't?). It delivered the goods!

    Now, understand that I am working off of memory here. The last time I had actual auditing was in the mid-1990s. I am especially curious, with all that I know and how much I have shifted viewpoints, WHAT would HAPPEN now? It is like what happened many years ago, a few years after I had finished the Drug Rundown, DN Case Completion, and all expanded grades (setup and ready for advanced org auditing). I was curious - what would happen if I got royally stoned right now (weed, pot)? I was really curious. Would I NOT get high? So, I found somebody on a corner selling, scored a few joints, and was off to the races! I got blasted! It was actually REALLY good. I was surf-boarding for light years in my mind. I don't mind mentioning it now - that was MANY years ago.:confused2: In the same sort of curious way, I wonder about what would happen if I did the L's NOW?

    Yo, lkwdblds, you said, "I am no longer impressed by most people who remain in bracket 3 such as most Freezoners and people who post on Ifachat". Everybody sees and experiences their world from where he or she sees it. It can be no other way. I am a Number 2 guy too, for the most part, BUT I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with people doing whatever they want with Hubbard's Tech. And, if people are willing to pay for it, because it has value for THEM, then that is fine too. For me, although I am a number 2 guy, I have absolutely NO PROBELM at all with anything about a FZ viewpoint. "Judge not lest ye be judged!" (valid point no matter WHO said it) Now, I see all number 1 people as simpletons of some sort, because they refuse to or are incapable of noticing or acknowledging subtleties and differences within the immense subject known as Scientology, and with the real people who get real benefits from some version of Scientology (whether in the Church or FZ).

    The application of LRH auditing tech gets really good subjective results for some people. You can't argue with THAT. It just is. That will be true no many how many arguments are created, and no matter what concatenations of logic are employed to "prove it otherwise". I love the taste of well-cooked shrimp. I have my whole life. You will NEVER be able to "logically" make me think otherwise. You can never "beat me in a debate" about that. And, it isn't even a "belief" that I hold about shrimp. It is raw experience. I love how it tastes, and no thought about it, before or after, had any part in that perception and experience. It is my subjective reality, and there is NOTHING YOU CAN SAY TO MAKE ME SEE IT ANY OTHER WAY. The same is true about MANY things, including people's experiences with all things "religious".

    In the end I have to simply let everybody just do what they want to do - as long as they don't hurt anybody.

    People choose to get involved in Scientology, and sometimes shit happens. But, it was YOUR choice, unless you were a kid in SCN, and then it was probably was not your choice. But, I think there is something to the concept of "Karma". If there is, then even the kids ending up in Scn may have had no other option - if there is an actual mechanism that functions in some way like "Karma", over many lives (that is the KEY of course).

    Anyway, all life is a crap shoot. I have a friend who graduated college, got married, had kids, worked 8-10 hours every day his whole life, and then his wife pops him with the divorce after 29 years of (largely mediocre) marriage. Who knew? He had devoted his entire LIFE to what was largely an illusion. It has taken him almost 2 years (with me as constant therapy) to come to terms with it.

    So, while the RTC-led Church of Scientology, operating on Hubbard's many organizational policies, is a tremendous nightmare, people who choose to enter it and stick with it in a very real sense "brought it on themselves". If you look the devil in the eyes, well the devil often looks back, and you do NOT stay the same in the process. The analogy is not unwarranted here.

    Anyone who was in, as a staff or public, and "suffered" as a result, CHOSE to look. Stop being a victim. Take off THAT coat of identity. THAT is part of divorcing oneself from the Scientology paradigm. You did it to yourself. In the end you do EVERYTHING to yourself. Confront THAT, understand how THAT happened, and move on.:duh:
     
  16. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    I figured you were a goup 2.

    Gadfly, I figured you as a group 2. Just a week or so ago, I showed some group 3 tendency and you jumped all over me, and drove me back into group 2. I am an "openminded" group 2 person as I suspect you are. In this case, openminded is a good thing meaning willing to take a plunge, try something new, keep your options open. If you feel the way you do about wanting to get blown out of your head again by doing some auditing in the Freezone, I would go for it.

    I had Power and Power Plus at ASHO in the mid 70's and they just blew a lot of people totally out of their head, myself included), on a routine basis. Have you had them? If not, that might be something to try although, I am not sure if it would be wise or work well if a person has had OTIII and NOTS which I believe for certain that you have had. You should probably get a C/Ses opinion if Power can be run after OTIII because it was definitely designed to be run before OT III.

    Thanks for all the tips on what you can run on yourself to start your day. As I recall, versions of those processes were often done at congresses and seminars as part of "Group Processing".
    lkwdblds
     
  17. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    That is very similar to a theory I've contemplated for awhile. I think the following may be true; I haven't made up my mind.

    I think that Hubbard may have been well-intentioned when he wrote Dianetics and started the first Dianetics organization. But I think three or four things happened.

    First, I think the success of the book Dianetics surprised even Hubbard. It really was a fad, and quite popular for awhile. It was taken seriously, and he got some of the respect and adoration that he so desperately needed and believed he deserved. But it was a one shot. Lightening in a bottle. Not unlike those one hit wonder singers or rock groups who spend the rest of their lives singing the same song, their one hit, at state fairs. I would love to know what the sales figures for Science of Survival were compared to Dianetics.

    Secondly, I think when Hubbard lost control of the first Dianetics organization (was it the Wichita Foundation?) it really affected him, and really fed into his paranoia. (Just because one person was maybe out to get you doesn't mean that everyone else in the universe is out to get you for the rest of your life.) Never again would he lose control of an organization. Never again would he lose control of his writings, his intellectual property, or the "tech."

    Thirdly, and most importantly, I've long believed that he developed (with good reason) a Nietzschean disdain for how pathetically weak his followers were. What disgusting sheep they were. People were "recalling" the act of conception... from the perspective of the sperm or egg? Really? WTF? Dear Friedrich, isn't that someone who is just begging, just begging, to be taken advantage of? To be used, exploited, fleeced and then discarded? Hmmmm, if I can convince them that they are "recalling" the act of conception from the perspective of the sperm or egg, maybe I can convince them that they are infested with... the spirits of invisible space aliens... who were blown up with atomic bombs.... by an evil Lord Xenu. Yeah, that's the ticket. Let's make a game of it. The game being, let's see how much unadulterated bullshit and abuse I can convince people to swallow.

    The only crime for a con man (or for some who believe they are intellectually superior) is to fail to take advantage of a mark.

    Fourth, and this is related to the third, Hubbard's true nature could not be denied. Pure self-actualization.

    In the end, it is like the story of the Scorpion and the Frog. The story is about a scorpion asking a frog to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung, but the scorpion reassures him that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown as well. The frog then agrees; nevertheless, in mid-river, the scorpion stings him, dooming the two of them. When asked why, the scorpion explains, "Hey, you knew I was a scorpion, what did you expect?"

    What amazes me is how many times people were stung by the scorpion, but kept coming back for more. And, judging from many posts by Ex (lol) Scientologists here, still are.

    I'm curious. Did anyone ever think that if Hubbard hadn't exploited, used and abused them, they would have had to find someone else to do the job?
     
  18. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    Good observations but abuse was not what I was looking for. I was looking for the results promised so that I could lead a better life and help those in my family etc. lead better lives. There were many things I hated about scn right off the bat and I was right about every one of them - regging, bizarre staff behavior etc. - but stayed because "OTs" told me how it would be worth all of the travail in the end. If I'd only known...
     
  19. Peter Soderqvist

    Peter Soderqvist Patron with Honors

    Soderqvist1: My point of view is based on all the evidence I have seen on the Internet, and books!
    L. Ron Hubbard was a good-hearted person, who suffered from Paranoid schizophrenia, with Delusion of Grandeur; though all this is a contradiction in terms, because it is impossible to make sense of insanity, or to put it in another way; insanity doesn’t make sense. So for the sake of simplicity: let’s call Ron for Dr Hubbard, and Mr Hyde! As an indication of his Delusion of Grandeur, is his letter to his wife, Polly 1938. It is nothing inherently wrong, or evil in it, it is just Delusion of Grandeur!
    http://www.discord.org/~lippard/bfm/bfm05.htm#81

    Soderqvist1. Hubbard did know that, it was something wrong with him, as this letter to the Veteran Administration 1947 indicates!

    Soderqvist1: As far to my knowledge Ron didn’t get any psychiatric help, and that it was not a trick to get money from V A, is proven by his affirmations 1947. So Dr Hubbard started to treat himself instead. The Affirmations are analysed, and commented by Senior Psychiatrist Ulf Brettstam from Sweden, and his conclusion is in the end of his Affirmations.

    Soderqvist1: Dr Hubbard was an extremely dynamic personality, he really had horsepower, look at how many books he has written and how many lectures he has made? Meanwhile he had also lead, and build up his organization (His church), with GO fully comparable with FBI

    Soderqvist1: A. E. Van Vogt regarding his writing skills says this!

    Soderqvist1: Dr Hubbard did know about Mr. Hyde, and he not only used drugs in his research, but he also used drugs and self-hypnosis in order to control Mr. Hyde, but he couldn’t hold him back meanwhile the various government agencies “attacked him”, so through time Mr. Hyde toke over more, and more until he just caved in, as he did in the end of his life!
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=283737&postcount=29

    Soderqvist1: I still believe in the workability of Dr Hubbard’s work, but I need to sort out Mr. Hyde’s part of it!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
  20. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Welcome Geir - I'm glad you've posted your formula publicly and have prepared yourself for the coming shitstorm I'm sure the Co$ will throw at you (or at least the feeble attempt they muster.)

    I will be sending on your formula to my friends still in and I hope they read it and begin to look at what they are in - thank you for your honesty and bravery.