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Who is Geir Isene?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by skollie, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think I'll start calling you Special Agent Fart. Your latest avatar made me think of that. What's your number? 008?
     
  2. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Isn't just Double 0 alone the traditional number for the 'water closet'? Somebody light a match...

    Zinj
     
  3. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    I also :welcome: ya! :yes:
     
  4. Peter Soderqvist

    Peter Soderqvist Patron with Honors

    Soderqvist1: your ”Unfit for Duty” Topic has now 10 comments!
    But your “The Silver Bullet” and “On Differentiation” Topic’s leave a comment doesn’t work, so you have none comment there! :confused2:
    http://elysianchakorta.wordpress.com/
     
  5. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    Yes, I fumbled :duh:

    The Silver bullet is now open for comments. I open articles for comments where I ask for contributions. Otherwise I feel forums like this one is better for discussions.
     
  6. Peter Soderqvist

    Peter Soderqvist Patron with Honors

    Soderqvist1: I have a contribution to your Personal Integrity Topic!
    I see Philosophy of Scientology as a word, which should be understood on its own merits, and its philosophical origin should also be investigated, and understood, just as you do when you “clearing a word” Personal Integrity; Ron got that concept from his mentor Commander “Snake” Thompson, which he got from the Buddhist tradition!

    Personal Integrity By L. Ron Hubbard
    WHAT IS TRUE FOR YOU is what you have observed yourself and when you lose that you have lost everything. Maintaining sufficient personal integrity and sufficient personal belief and confidence in self and courage that we can observe what we observe and say what we have observed. Nothing in Dianetics and Scientology is true for you unless you have observed it and it is true according to your observation. That is all.
    http://www.aboutlronhubbard.org/eng/wis3_4.htm

    Lecture: The Story of Dianetics and Scientology
    Anyway; at the Library of Congress in Washington, DC, where they have all the books on everything, he started shoving my nose into an education in the field of the mind. Now, that's a very unusual thing to do, to take a twelve-year-old boy And start doing something with the mind. But he really got me interested in the subject But actually Commander Thompson had a very open mind on this, and he used to tell me, „Well, if it's not true for you, it's not true.“ And I found out that he got this from a fellow named Gautama Siddhartha.
    http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1432&Itemid=240

    Lecture: Dianetics The Modern Miracle
    I was just a kid and Commander Thompson didn't have any boy of his own, and he and I just got along fine.
    http://carolineletkeman.org/sp/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=727&Itemid=240

    Soderqvist1: it is implicit that; if after a thorough investigation you have not observed anything of the sort, then it is not truth according to what you have observed! Jacques Schnier was one of Commander Thompson’s students too!

    A Sculptors Odyssey By Jacques Schnier
    Page 106 -107 Riess: The Buddhist View How important was that trip in your life?

    Schnier: Yes. Now, if I said that after 1933, when I started my analysis, it would have been under the influence of [Joseph] Thompson.
    Thompson was a Buddhist, and that's where I first became exposed to Buddhism in depth, real depth. Thompson shared with me a lot of his knowledge of Buddhism, and I went into it a little more than just the casual person who would read a little about Zen, and that's it.

    Page 123: Riess: What was his attachment to Eastern philosophy?
    Buddhism? Why did he know?

    Schnier: He was a naval officer during World War I, and part of his years in the service were spent in the Orient, and that's where he was
    exposed to Buddhism. I think he had a friend who was a Buddhist who had entered the Buddhist monastery. Be that as it may, he had studied it thoroughly. He was a deep thinker. He was constantly searching. He wasn't the type who sits back and is satisfied with just reading the morning newspaper.

    Page 132 -133 Riess: The oral tradition?

    Schnier: Yes. None of it was put down in permanent form until several hundred years later. Now there are several books that supposedly contain his teachings that for hundreds of years were handed down orally. And this comes from one of those books. So the Buddha said that it's in the nature of things that doubt should arise, and then he went on to say that it's a matter of not closing your eyes to these various systems. Listen to them. But then eventually you have to make a decision based on what you think is reasonable. The actual wording is this, "If, after observation and analysis, it agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it, and live up to it." So he didn't force them to follow Buddhism, he wanted them to make their own decision.
    http://www.archive.org/stream/sculptorodyssey00schnrich#page/n9/mode/2up

    Commander "Snake" Thompson on EX-Scientology Message Board
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=5390
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  7. Kookaburra

    Kookaburra Gold Meritorious Patron

    Then the only trick is knowing ahead of time when you will be threatened with your secrets being exposed, and having your spycam ordered, paid for, in your pocket and running at that time. A mobile phone or video camera wouldn't work. OSA would NEVER allow themselves to be filmed doing this sort of thing. They do it one on one. No witnesses.
     
  8. Peter Soderqvist

    Peter Soderqvist Patron with Honors

    Soderqvist1: to my knowledge, there is at least two circumstantial evidence that support Hubbard’s claim that he met “Thompson at the Library of congress in Washington DC, there they have all the books on everything”. The first is by “Snake” Thompson’s friend Consuelo Seoane’ s account in his widow’s book; “The Longest War” and the next is by Ron Junior!

    Soderqvist1: Ron Junior has said in his Tape Lecture that his father was 16 years old when he was at this Library of Congress. It seems to be proven beyond reasonable doubt that he met Commander Thompson there, and he directed his attention at many things, as he has said elsewhere.

    A Tale;

    What do Thou Wilt?
    Survive of Course!
    Man’s will to Survive!
    From Magick to Dianetics!
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  9. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Robert Dam's doubt formula
    http://www.robertdam-cos.dk/My%20Doubt.html
    was one of the first things I read when exiting the CoS. So I like Doubt Formulas.

    HOWEVER, Isene cannot claim "Miscavige lies" when Isene doesn't have the stats himself.
    • What is the difference between claiming "8 million Scientologist" and claiming "2 billion Christians"? OF COURSE THERE ARE NO 2 billion Christians. As I wrote at http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=228697#post228697 if you apply strict definitions for "What is a Christian?" then suddenly the total number of Christians in the US shrinks to a few 10thousands. Isene should rather concentrate on exposing how much ACTIVE/REAL Scientologists there are. There are several attempts to calculate a reasonable number in the internet. I don't see "8 millions" as a lie since there is no official PR definition of "What is a Scientologist?"
    • Miscavige doesn't report wrong stats. As I wrote at http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=282604#post282604 the stats are correct, but you never see the longterm trend because he always ZOOMS IN into a current shortterm uptrend ("Just alone since the WTC attacks we have doubled XXX"). This is the trick that he uses since 20 years and noone noticed so far. He takes a current uptrend (which is usually an artificially manufactured uptrend by pushing a certain stat for the recent years) and then he says "Since the last Birthday event alone we have quadrumumpuffled the DMSMH sales". THIS IS COMPLETELY TRUE. Don't bother to prove that Miscavige is lying about the stats. He is not. Isene should rather concentrate on the IRRELEVANCY of the stats as I wrote at http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=231596#post231596 , since "people exposed to LRH tech" is as meaningless as "printed WTH booklets". Instead the only relevant stats would be something like "Ls completions" or (indirectly) "eMeters sold".
    • The statement "There cannot be online visitors from 234 countries since there are less than 234 countries" is ALSO WRONG. They simply counted the country top level domains (.co.uk, .us, .de) etc and since some countries do not exist anymore (e.g. USSR ".su") there are LESS COUNTRIES but there have been online visitors from the Soviet Union nevertheless. It's a minor mistake, they merely need to update their IP2cTLD algorithms.
    If your doubt formula gets people out of the CoS and into this forum then good for them and good for us. But don't base everything on the darkest possible explanations.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  10. Rae

    Rae Patron with Honors

    Right..but who on this board is going to volunteer to go get a sec check so it can be recorded? For that matter, unless someone that's still in sees this thread and can get thru an auditing session without having their withhold pulled that they've got a recording device going then the liklihood of getting this is zip. That's not to mention all the other "unlikelys" as unless it's a high placed scientologist that is then going to come out publicly..why would someone in the Church publish their session data? I'm still not seeing, on this one point of hard evidence regarding using session data, how it would actually be gotten or guarenteed that the church would use this person, in particular's data.

    While the idea is good, the logistics involved are not easily accomplished, in my opinion.
     
  11. Peter Soderqvist

    Peter Soderqvist Patron with Honors

    I think there are 8 million persons in the world, which has got a PC-Folder!
    I was into the Org here in Sweden in the mid 90s, and there I met the CF in Charge for Stockholm. He told me that he had 25 – 30 thousand Folders in the CF, but he was “in com” with only 200 – 300 Scientologists, thus the rest was dead-filed he was embarrassed. The Org started 1968, and I concluded from what I saw there, that there is close to no activity on the Bridge. And there is another “development” too, namely; Drottninggatan, to Kammakargatan, to Sankt Eriksplan, to Götgatan, to Reimersholme, to Skärholmen. It means that the Org cannot afford the rent, so they must leave the City, and mowing outward until they have ended up in a Suburb to the City, as they have nowadays. So 1% of 8 millions are; 80 thousand Scientologists worldwide, who are interested to some degree, and according to their Newspaper “The Auditor”, last time I read it was in the end of the 90s, they have made only 53 Clears worldwide in a year. So the Real question David Miscavige, how many Course Completions, and Auditors, and Case Completions have you made worldwide, and what is its long trend condition?
     
  12. Xclam

    Xclam Patron

    This is Trap #1 in Scientology. It's one of the very first things you'll hear. Only problem is that if you have not observed and it is not true according to your observation it is because of YOU - YOU have gone past an m/u, YOU have committed an overt, YOUR ethics are out etc. etc. and YOU need to handle it. Never ever ever is there anything wrong or unclear about the Tech or LRH's writings.
     
  13. Peter Soderqvist

    Peter Soderqvist Patron with Honors

    I am impervious to senseless ranting!
     
  14. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    I appreciate your effort to be objective. If you compare the official number of Scientologists from the Tampa Bay area with the figure of 8 million Scientologists, I am sure you would conclude that at least one of the figures are a lie. :)
     
  15. knn

    knn Patron Meritorious

    Where is the lie? Neither does "9000 Scientologists live in Tampa Bay" prove that "8 million worldwide" is a lie, nor does "8 million" prove that "9000 in Tampa Bay" is a lie.
     
  16. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    Well, I've never been in any cult and I generally prefer to be just "my own group", so I may not have much say in this - but I think I can answer this one.

    Nobody has filed a police report yet, because they all would end up in the same dilemma: a "he said - she said" situation would have been the best possible outcome. I doubt one would meet DM alone, without his "bodyguards". In all cases I've read, those "bodyguards" were always present. So let's imagine you were the one beaten up. Would you have the guts to drag DM and all of his "witnesses" into court and would you really believe you could win? Sounds quite naive, doesn't it? You'd be alone, and therefore won't have the slightest chance.

    But now, that several people are talking about having been beaten up by DM, this situation may change. If 12 people report to have been beaten by DM on different occasions, it might show a pattern that could hold up in court.

    There is strength in numbers.

    Just the opinion of MrNobody...


    Edit:
    First of all, if you really want to make Hubbard's writings freely available for everybody, hats off for that (if I understood you correctly about that). Personally, I don't think highly of his writings and can't stand more that 3 or 4 pages of his drivel, but there are lots of people who would disagree with me on that. For all those people (and maybe even for myself, if I ever change my mind on that), this would be just great.

    Now to the point I wanted to address: I've been browsing some of your pages, and I've seen you offering (free?) OSS, but the pages were in Norwegian. So do you have Software pages in English too?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  17. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    Try http://www.freecodeint.com for some info. We've had a complete revamp of our local office web sites. Norway is first, Engish is soon up again (they were too much out of sync).

    ...as for replying to knn on the numbers, I may do that tomorrow unless someone else does the math before I get to it. Time to go to bed :sleepy:
     
  18. MrNobody

    MrNobody Who needs merits?

    "Something" seems to have "swallowed" my previous reply, so again thanks for your link. I'm missing a real "product" on there, but since you're in the process of revamping right now, I'll be patient.

    Nightienight, I'll go to sleep now too.
     
  19. Ackerland

    Ackerland Patron with Honors

    Hello Mr. Isene. What is your stance on the OT3 material? You were asking for silver bullets. In my opinion, the whacky Xenu story already is one in its own right with many Scientologists quitting if they knew the truth about OT3 beforehand (which probably is in part the reason why it is so secret within the scientology organisation).

    Here is an audio recording of LRH personally talking about it:
    http://gawker.com/5037013/the-history-of-xenu-as-explained-by-l-ron-hubbard-in-8-minutes
     
  20. Isene

    Isene Patron with Honors

    Now if the field of Flag and the Ideal Org of Tampa with all their missions and group combined cannot muster 10000 Scientologists, then what other org could possibly reach the required target of 47000 Scientologists? Let alone demonstrate that the average org has 47000 Scientologists in their field.

    Also, DM claims that Scientology is the fastest growing religion in the world from 1954 till 2004. The All World Gayatri Pariwar has had 20 million parishioners actually attend their courses in the same time.

    And DM claims several continents have reached their target of the Basics books available in 100% of their libraries. This has been demonstrated to be a lie.

    I believe it is easy to demonstrate that DM has lied at least once, though my doubt write-up does not claim that he has lied at all. You have a much higher mountain to climb when you claim:

    Please prove that DM does not report wrong stats (ever).

    I certainly believe in not painting anything darker than it actually is. This is why I have kept my doubt formula to only those points I believe I can honestly prove.

    I apologize for being less active here in the future - there is much to do in order to handle what I perceive needs to be handled.