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Why are they so paranoid about staff leaving?

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Well, many years ago I could have walked out of any Org I was in, even from the RPF, I could have escaped, I would have had to plan it, but could have done it easy enough. Some did. I felt trapped, but there really were no physical stops to me just walking out, OK I had no money, and no where to go, and still believed that I needed only to do what I was told and the planet would be nice, and there was the threat of disconnection.

Now it's different. Guards, with mobiles. Barbed wire, why?

If someone doesn't want to be there what is the point of holding him or her, there?

It really doesn't make any sense, I can sort of understand it with the Int management guys that know too much, but the mimeo officer from some AOSH gets pretty much the same treatment. Can it just be control-freakism?
 

BC1

Patron with Honors
I think it's because the people that do profit from Scientology (DM & crew) are probably terrified that their source of livelihood would dry up and their little empire would crumble.
 

NeXTep

Patron with Honors
Great question La La, I had the same experience. Even on the RPF I could just have walked out and be gone. And that's exactly what I did a few years later and this was at the end of the eighties.

Of course security guards were already in place but but they would not be guarding the place 24/7.

So what has actually changed in those 20+ years. Has the frame of mind of a dedicated SO member changed so much in the last 20 years?

In my opinion a good part of the imprisonment is of the person's own making. I think it is more than we would want to believe. I can only think that this is due to the propaganda machinery being much more efficient and SO members being much more segregated than we were.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
I suppose it's siege mentality, they feel under attack, there's people with masks out there all the time and behind them there's people secretly e mailing entheta everywhere, one click of their mouse and you might become a psychologist yourself. Anti-scientology terrorists!

The strongest bars are the ones we make ourselves.

Gawd I'm glad I'm out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Kathy (ImOut)

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, many years ago I could have walked out of any Org I was in, even from the RPF, I could have escaped, I would have had to plan it, but could have done it easy enough. Some did. I felt trapped, but there really were no physical stops to me just walking out, OK I had no money, and no where to go, and still believed that I needed only to do what I was told and the planet would be nice, and there was the threat of disconnection.

Now it's different. Guards, with mobiles. Barbed wire, why?

If someone doesn't want to be there what is the point of holding him or her, there?

It really doesn't make any sense, I can sort of understand it with the Int management guys that know too much, but the mimeo officer from some AOSH gets pretty much the same treatment. Can it just be control-freakism?


That's the point, there is no point in holding them. It's all about control. And the mind set that you only leave (blow) because you have overts. Which is completely BS. You leave high school. You get promoted into better positions. You get more educated and find a job that aligns with the education. There are so many reasons for leaving, but the CofS believes the only reason is because of overts. So of course they have to lock you in until you confess all of your overts.
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Well, if the medium is the message, then the message of fleeing Staff/SO is pretty clear. And, such a message is dangerous to the Scientology Movement. So, per the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics (i.e. Scientology) it all makes perfect sense.

Probably make more sense to just eliminate them without sorrow, but, they may be a little worried about getting caught, and, even unwillingly, there's probably some useful labor to get out of most of them. Most.

I wouldn't be at all surprised at unlabeled holes in the ground around Int.

Zinj
 

NeXTep

Patron with Honors
I suppose it's siege mentality, they feel under attack, there's people with masks out there all the time and behind them there's people secretly e mailing entheta everywhere, one click of their mouse and you might become a psychologist yourself. Anti-scientology terrorists!

The strongest bars are the ones we make ourselves.

Gawd I'm glad I'm out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's exactly the way I see it. :thumbsup:

And you are out because at one point your Bullshit Tolerance Level was reached. :yes:

For those that are stil in this level has not been reached yet, despite the tremendous efforts that DM is undertaking. :eyeroll:
 
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exsomessenger

Patron Meritorious
it is really made taboo from day one on the EPF. that and the Help button is pushed very hard. Who would not want a world without crime and crazy people.

I blew from the INT base only after I felt I had everthing taken away from me. I had no money, no where to go and no one to support me. The big factor was that there was nothing inthe Sea Org for me anymore and the risk of falling flat on my face was better then what I was being offered in the Sea Org.

I asked to route out and was not even put on the correct routing form. Instead I was taken into a room and told that I was throwing away my future and my entire freedom. It was a very heavy reality factor. When I did not buy into it I was made to write OW's for weeks. when that did not work I was sent to the RPF's RPF. Only after my 2D wrote a KR on me for origanating communication did I know that I would have to take matters into my own hands.

I was very scared but I knew that I could and would survive.

Even with all of the security that is in place at the GOLD base, it is doable, anyone can just walk out. I know this because that is exactly what I did.

there is a bus station in Hemit that will take you to the greyhound station in Baumont. There is (or was) a pawn shop right next to the bus station just in case you want to pawn your SO ring (etc) for bus fair.

I'm just saying. :confused2:
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
If I ever go near Int, I'll look out for holes without labels, wouldn't want to step on ex-RPFers.

Being a born again ex-Scientologist, brainwashed into wog ways, I just think that saying 'Oh you you want to leave OK, thanks for your help, let us know when your'e leaving exactly and we'll have a party' might be the best solution.
Being treated nicely the guys would probably even stay in the cult instead of reaching for the nearest PC when they get out to post their story.

I've left a few jobs since leaving the cult and always have to prepare myself, but everyone's always fine about it. I was even asked to leave my last job as I'd been sick for over a year, and given a few grand to do so.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Deep down - or not so deep - scientologists think they are in some kind of war. Kind of amusing when you ask "what war?" "who against who?". They believe that "psychs" are out there destroying the people of Earth. But in reality - and the people at the top know this - scientology's real enemies are Ex-scientologists. Ex staff, Ex public, that's where the real shit is coming from. I think they know they are an enemy creating machine, but as long they still have custody they can prevent people from reading that scary internet and calling a lawyer.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Policy

Just for what it is worth, after the locking up of a large group of public in the

south entrance of the Complex, circa around 1983, LRH quietly issued a policy

that says that you should never hold someone against their will. I've read it,

but wouldn't know how to find it, and for sure DM buried it along with the

No-disconnection policy and Blackmail policy which forgives anyone being

Blackmailed for their sins, and punishes the Blackmailer.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
Why are they so paranoid about staff leaving?

They all got a severely debilitating 3rd dynamic engram when I left and started frowning on their stats!

The thetan always knows!!

:yes:
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Just for what it is worth, after the locking up of a large group of public in the

south entrance of the Complex, circa around 1983, LRH quietly issued a policy

that says that you should never hold someone against their will. I've read it,

but wouldn't know how to find it, and for sure DM buried it along with the

No-disconnection policy and Blackmail policy which forgives anyone being

Blackmailed for their sins, and punishes the Blackmailer.

The reason that such 'policies' were 'quietly issued' was that they were only intended to be pulled out when necessary, such as here, not in day to day operations.

Hubbard has many such policies; including the 'cancellation' of Fair Game and Disconnection and the 'policy' to follow the law of the land.

Zinj
 

SaguaroRose

Patron with Honors
Deep down - or not so deep - scientologists think they are in some kind of war. Kind of amusing when you ask "what war?" "who against who?". They believe that "psychs" are out there destroying the people of Earth. But in reality - and the people at the top know this - scientology's real enemies are Ex-scientologists. Ex staff, Ex public, that's where the real shit is coming from. I think they know they are an enemy creating machine, but as long they still have custody they can prevent people from reading that scary internet and calling a lawyer.

BINGO!!! We Ex's are the most effective enemies, and when you think about it, it is like a self-fulfilling prophecy kind of thing for Scientology.....when you set up an organization that cannot just let people leave without making a problem out of it, you CREATE the problem yourself.

"Someone wants to leave = There MUST be a problem"

So once we are on the outside, looking in, we can see where the problem lies, and warn others.:yes:
 

thefiredragon

Patron Meritorious
Just for what it is worth, after the locking up of a large group of public in the

south entrance of the Complex, circa around 1983, LRH quietly issued a policy

that says that you should never hold someone against their will. I've read it,

but wouldn't know how to find it, and for sure DM buried it along with the

No-disconnection policy and Blackmail policy which forgives anyone being

Blackmailed for their sins, and punishes the Blackmailer.

He probably used it for toilet paper. LOL

I think,that's why so many Sea Org members in lower conditions. They are being held against their free will. If DM would let people go and keep only
those who want to stay,70% of people would leave but the rest 30% will
at least do their job good,just because they want to
 

Mest Lover

Not Sea Org Qualified
I could have blown anytime I chose.

I should have! Part of me wishes I did!
I would blow this very instant if I was there now.

At the time the S.O. led me to believe they would come after me (fair game, disconnection, routing out). I did not want that for my family.

I chose to stay there, work my plan and waste the time there I did to avoid the psychological pain they inflicted on me.

Its a major head game they play, they won with me, but ultimately -> I have won!!! I have freedom, a family that I love and loves me in return, Jobs that pay me unreal amounts of cashola for the work i give them, benefits for retirement and insurance for my family.

The S.O. rots! stay there and rot with them.
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
Nicely put Mest Lover.

The biggest overt I committed was not blowing sooner. But I'm out now. I am so pleased that I am out!

'Would you like others to have the gains you have made?'


O Yes!
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Great question La La, I had the same experience. Even on the RPF I could just have walked out and be gone. And that's exactly what I did a few years later and this was at the end of the eighties.

Of course security guards were already in place but but they would not be guarding the place 24/7.

So what has actually changed in those 20+ years. Has the frame of mind of a dedicated SO member changed so much in the last 20 years?

In my opinion a good part of the imprisonment is of the person's own making. I think it is more than we would want to believe. I can only think that this is due to the propaganda machinery being much more efficient and SO members being much more segregated than we were.

When I blew from Flag, in the early 80s, there weren't any security guards yet. I could (and did) go to the Clearwater library between quickly scarfing down my lunch and muster, and I could take long walks on my infrequent liberty days.

When I did blow, though, I made sure I timed it so I was already out of Clearwater before anybody reported me missing. I was sure, because of my post, that I would have a bunch of people at the airport and elsewhere as soon as I was missed.
 

Opter

Silver Meritorious Patron
One of the reasons they make it so hard to leave ( and I'm talking about a class 5 org ), is because it is very hard to get people to join staff.:omg:

Opter
 
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