ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Why "Where's Shelly?" is not a good campaign

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by iHateDuplicity, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. iHateDuplicity

    iHateDuplicity Patron with Honors

    This might not increase my popularity but I wanted to toss this out there and see what thoughts people have on this.

    Today on Tony's blog, he brings up that Dwarf Midget is likely planning to DA (dead agent) the "Where's Shelly" campaign at the Gala by parading her in public and then sending her back to whatever hole she is currently working in. Whether she is at CST or in Diana Hubbard's house in LA or wherever doesn't really matter, and neither does her well being.

    This is an impermanent and really rather weak campaign against Cof$ and here is why: (1) no one person's well being is that important to the overall "think" about Scn in the general public; (2) hardly anyone even inside the Cof$ knows who Shelly is, so asking "Where's Shelly?" means very little or nothing to them.

    The "dead agent caper" on "Where's Shelly?" will work if they pull her out, have her visible at the Gala with photos taken of her and Dwarf Midget together (even if they are just sitting together) and then march her right back to CST or the small house in Hollywood or wherever she is doing "the good work." And that will be it. For DM and the Scilons, that is all they will need to lay the matter to rest forever.

    The only possible weakness in presenting her at all hinges on whether or not anyone in the press will actually step up and try to gain access to her. And given the ultra-control that is exerted over the participants at the Gala, it will be beyond easy for DM to ensure that does NOT happen. The "Where's Shelly?" campaign always had this weakness built in to it. It's too easy to DA and make it go away. The only wonder about it has been why it's taken DM so long to actually do it.


    I would assert that there are far more effective campaigns to execute from our side against the Cof$ that will have real staying power and cannot be so easily handled: (1) the fight against the policies on disconnection (which is in full swing and needs to continue full force), (2) the obvious and repeated lies Dwarf Midget and OSA continue to put out about the ex's, (3) Scientology's non-existent "expansion" and (4) where the hell is the millions of dollars in donations actually going? All of these cannot be DA'd in a single press conference or by presenting a body or making a statement. They require real facts, which Cof$ is unwilling or unable to document or present.

    Instead of "Where's Shelly?" it could be "Show me the money!" That could have interesting off-shoots and sub-campaigns.

    These are things that should be being campaigned on much harder - especially the money trail. Follow the money. The general public get really interested in this sort of thing, as it gets into real criminal activity if you can show that Cof$ and Dwarf Midget are anything but a "not-for-profit" organization. And that is what will actually get the government investigators involved for real, whether the IRS cooperates or not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  2. TrevAnon

    TrevAnon Big List researcher

    Thanks for this thread. It's a good thing to have someone questioning a subject on which everyone else seems to have the same opinion.

    Right now, I can only think of one advantage of the "Where's Shelly" campaign.

    This is, that DM will - hopefully? - feel obliged to produce her at some event. Thus making him effect to the cause of the critics. I can only hope that is a serious blow for him.

    Other than that, I agree.
     
  3. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    Where is a lot of people campain ? Spam the world in their mail accounts ?
     
  4. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    There is the possibility that she is severely incapacitated and cannot make a public appearance. I've wondered if she's had a severe psychotic break for example. That would be a major PR blow to say the least.
     
  5. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Or if she's dead and they are covering up her death.
     
  6. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2013
  7. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    I wonder what would happen if, when they make a show-appearance of somebody like Shelly, or Heber, or any of the others, the person just snapped and ran off the stage into the audience screaming "Help me! Help me! I've been held prisoner! They've been threatening my life!".

    You gotta think that's a worry that sits somewhere in the back of DM's head at these events.
     
  8. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

    I've considered that possibility but I doubt it. A death is easier to "explain" than a psychotic break. They wouldn't seek real treatment of course. Instead they would handle it in house which means the condition would worsen, hence the secrecy.
     
  9. iHateDuplicity

    iHateDuplicity Patron with Honors

    It is but I think it's a relatively small one. That sort of thing only happens in the movies. If she is alive (which I think she is) and if they show her off (which I think they will sometime soon, even if not at the Gala), then she will be done over and very well drilled and under the most strict control you can imagine. There will be no "snapping" allowed, even if that is the natural state for a clam, LOL. :)
     
  10. Enthetan

    Enthetan Master of Disaster

    Depends on the cause of death. Death caused by violence, like one of DM's famous rages, would not be something they would be eager to try to explain, even if they are fairly confident the medical examiner could be bribed.
     
  11. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think it is a good campaign just to get him to produce her. Then we can SEE with our own eyes, she is alive - and whether she is 'well' - or not. I doubt she'd take an opportunity to leave, any more than any RPF-true-believer would leave - if the doors were thrown wide open - and all offered freedom. Sometimes the prison is in the 'head' - even when the doors are wide open - and freedom beckons.

    That is the epitome of 'brainwashing'. :scnsucks: THIS IS WHY ! 'Where a man has no voice, there we shall sing . . . (Jewel/Hands)'. :guyfawkes: :anon:

    Oh, edit add: Besides, it really gets little davey's goat, exposing his callous disregard for humans - including his wife . . . He got rid of her. So he could do another - and he'd already gotten rid of her husband, permanently . . . . :whistling:
     
  12. Out-Ethics

    Out-Ethics Patron Meritorious

    When you say campaign it sounds like some big organized effort. To me it is a catch phrase which has caught on and I doubt there is any thing more than that. There is nothing wrong with that as open discussion where any person can access is what is killing the church and Scientology. While you do bring up valid points on other topics all of them needs to be brought to everyone's attention. The church is caught in a pool of quicksand and is slowly sinking. No matter how much they struggle by hiding, lying or declaring they will sink out of sight. It's ironic but biggest enemy they have always had is themselves.
     
  13. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    I agree. The campaigns can be endless as well. After Shelley runs the course, there are many more that can be introduced.

    DM is reacting to the media, getting boxed in more and more. Gotta laugh at their OT abilities.
     
  14. iHateDuplicity

    iHateDuplicity Patron with Honors

    I don't think "Where's Shelly?" is a bad idea, it's just not a long-term effective one. I'm all for dev-ting the sh!t out of Dwarf Midget to get his wife out of the hidey hole she's been relegated to and have to pay attention to his critics. But my point is generating external pressure that will effectively result in the Cof$ going down for the count. The cries of "Where's Shelly?" are not going to do that. It's the same as the earlier cries of "Where's Heber?" that were going up all over. Heber showed up and said "leave me alone" and that was it, no more "Where's Heber?" It never really went anywhere with the public at large and after he showed up, that was it, it was a dead issue. It was a good thing because it got people like me, who were still in, wondering where he was and what was going on with all the previous Int execs. So it was good to do, but it was not a ball-buster for Cof$.

    What I want to see with the limited number of resources that make up our community is a really effective campaign. That sounds more "organized" than I mean it. Maybe just a catch-phrase that will catch on, but one that will have longer-term value. I don't think we're all going to get together at Denny's in secret after work and formulate plans and PR media releases. :coolwink: I am just using the word "campaign" because I don't know a better word to use for a large-scale PR activity.

    I'm not saying "Where's Shelly?" is a dead issue or that it has had no effect or that it never should have been done. I'm just pointing out that IMHO there are more effective, longer-lasting and harder-to-DA campaigns that should be made very widely known all over the internet that the Cof$ will never be able to write off or easily escape from. And those could result in real black eyes and even criminal prosecution if they could get on mainstream media lines. And that I think should be the real goal.

    BTW, I agree that the Cof$ is going to take itself out. It's truly doing a bang-up job at that right now. I just want to do anything I can to push it along. :happydance:
     
  15. Boson Wog Stark

    Boson Wog Stark Patron Meritorious

    Besides the whereabouts and health of Shelly, the "Where's Shelly?" question also has to do with how Leah was treated simply for asking that question, and challenging the Church (and DM) for not giving her an answer. She paid $300,000 for three months of security checks. And this, after having probably donated millions to the "Church."

    Any kind of criticism, to Scientologists, means very little or nothing -- it's all entheta. Many have disconnected from family or friends, and they think that's good. They're also preoccupied with their own potentially suppressive behavior.

    The importance of the "Where's Shelly?" question is for the public and potential new membership in the Church who will think twice about joining if they hear that even a celebrity member can't get away with asking a simple question, without being charged hundreds of thousands of dollars for "security checking." That is going to fascinate people and get their attention.

    As the public becomes more aware, even the few still interested in Scientology mind games can go into an Org and ask about Shelly. If the workers don't know who she is, they will find out if enough people simply ask. If they answer that Shelly is well and "working for the Church as she always has," then why the hell did Leah Remini get in so much trouble just for asking that question?
     
  16. miscaveat

    miscaveat Patron

    Agreed. I'd be surprised if DM does bring her out in public for the reasons you describe. Most active Scientologists probably don't even know who she is, and there really wouldn't be any reason for them to know since she wasn't in a background post unlike Rathbun, Rinder, Heber, Lesevre who were regular speakers at events.

    I'm also not buying that Remini's departure had anything to do with her wanting to know where Shelley is, at least not the primary reason, because if that was a serious issue for her, then why wasn't she asking where all the Int execs went, and how could it be possible that Rathbun & Rinder suddenly became SPs & were part of a "culture of violence" in Scientology??? If that indeed was the reason why she left the cult, then it's a cop out excuse like Paul Haggis claiming that he left Scientology because of the cult's support for Prop 8, which is BS because it was just one staff member at San Diego org who was responsible for that flap, and he didn't even have permission to speak or sign any petition on the cult's behalf.

    The whole "Where's Shelley" thing in general is pretty weird, oddball stuff. Based on what I've read from Int escapees, for years she was DM's most fanatical defender and she got a lot of people in trouble for nattering about DM or criticizing him. For all I know she could be just as evil as DM.

    I also find it silly for Rathbun to suggest that someone like Kirstie Alley or Bodhi Elfman raised the question of "Where's Shelly" and DM panicked enough to want to trot her out. Alley? Elfman? Are you fucking serious?? Bodhi is practically a nobody and so not a celeb, and Alley is so brain dead I can't take any claim that she would raise such questions seriously.

    And if DM does in fact trot her out at the Gala, he's definitely got to be the stupidest tool of all time, and maybe that's the point of all this.
     
  17. AnonKat

    AnonKat Crusader

    Go for it all you new kiddies, I love that you found ESMB, proud of you all
     
  18. i'mglib

    i'mglib Patron with Honors

    I think it's great that people are asking "where's Shelly."

    The good things are

    1. The press is interested because there is a Tom Cruise connection. Anything that gets press is good, even if there are bigger issues. The press cares about celebrities, and the idea that Tom didn't give a hoot that his best man was cavorting with another woman at Tom's wedding, while his best man's wife was nowhere to be seen is PR gold for our side.

    2. It's a black and white issue, unlike some of the others where the church can wiggle around. For instance saying no one is forced to disconnect. The woman is just plain missing from public view, starting with a wedding where her husband was best man.

    3. It's weird. No matter how you slice it, it's just plain creepy and bizarre that the leader's wife is apparently missing. It raises questions and speculation, which is also good for our side.

    4. It puts DM in a pickle because the pr and speculation will continue if he doesn't produce her, but if he does produce her it starts a whole new round of pr and speculation about why, and if she's really free or just brought out as a show. Also, as someone said, it makes DM look like he's at effect.

    5. The more weird shit out there the better. People love to become instant experts, gathering side stories and details about the church they can share with their friends. This is a great side story. And fortunately people can multi-process. There doesn't have to be one focus.
     
  19. yup...

    and pulling shelly out of a hat like a stage magician's bunny will PROVE all that entheta about Co$ is nothing but Big Pharma's LIES!!!

    remind's me of something often said about the jesuits; "if you accuse them of killing three men and a dog they will triumphantly produce the dog, ALIVE!"
     
  20. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Me too, and that they have found their voice - and give it an airing, whether popular or not. :clap:

    Good thread. :thumbsup: