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Witness to Dianetics: For the first time, the letters of key Hubbard ally Donald H. Rogers

Discussion in 'Tony Ortega' started by RSS Feed, May 8, 2018.

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  1. RSS Feed

    RSS Feed RSS Feeder Bot

    There is a new post up at the Underground Bunker

    Witness to Dianetics: For the first time, the letters of key Hubbard ally Donald H. Rogers

    Jon Atack has provided us a marvelous exclusive. He’s provided us with copies of letters he received from a man name Don Rogers in the mid-1980s. And we’ve asked historian Chris Owen to help us understand just how valuable these letters are and what’s in them, followed by the first of three Rogers [...]


    Jon Atack has provided us a[.......]

    Continue reading...
  2. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Very interesting.

    Very familiar story. From the beginning forward very many people have been witness to paranoia and tyrany etc. in Hubbard yet still remained impressed by him and continued to be interested in his work.

    I never met him but before I started I researched the published material and was well informed

    That sonofabitch is the most enigmatic character to come down the line; there just isn't anyone you can compare him to.
  3. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

    Apparently you never met Hubbard? Look if you met him, chatted with him you'd understand him pretty quick. I did. No mystery. If you ever did meet/work with him and still are impressed by his bullshit you are in need of $cn. de-programming.
  4. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    Pray tell. :begging:

    The message board is a lot friendlier place than when you first posted your
    anecdote years ago. I didn't get to read it. I'm always curious about first-hand
    conversations and such.

    I loved reading the first Don Rogers letter. Very entertaining and revealing.
  5. ILove2Lurk

    ILove2Lurk Lisbeth Salander

    . . .
    The Don Rogers letter inspired me to look through my photo archives for some
    rare snapshots from that period.

    Here's one of Don Hubbard in a '51 car his brother bought for him with proceeds
    from the first Dianetic Foundation. Don is waiting for a slow-running PC outside
    the Wichita Foundation building. Supposed to take him to the airport and he's
    not gonna make it looks like. Don is pissed.


    Here's a group shot from Phoenix. Don is wondering how he got roped into going
    to what he referred to as a small-time desert town with one stop light. Nibs has
    already muscled his way high up onto the then org board. Don is pissed.


    cakemaker likes this.
  6. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on

    omg lol lol lol lol priceless lol lol lol omg lol lol lol

    I was recently looking at a very cool-ass modern house to buy and the designer had some of his far out (but incredibly perfect) modern art (grouped, vividly colorful self-portraits) in there. I was telling the broker that if i ended up buying it, i wanted that art thrown in.

    But now, I am thinking if I had a very large wall space to fill in the new house I actually want to use that '51 bullet-nosed Studebaker (blown up laaaaaarge!) with LDH[sup]1[/sup] inside. LOL I absolutely love it.


    [sup]1[/sup] LDH - L. Don Hubbard, the estranged & diabolically non-standard twin brother of L. Ron Hubbard.


    ps: I don't even know if I would ever tell anyone who/what that is, but perhaps I would just "smile knowingly to myself" the way 99% of those delusional OT wins in Advance! magazine always claim. lol
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  7. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    yes it is, can't wait for the next post on the letters. Of course I'm thinking with the Campbell/Heinlein letters 1949/50 I read and have posted about.

    Some things of note, and paraphrasing,

    Campbell says to Heinlein: Hubbard had it all wrong.

    In another letter, Heinlein says to Campbell: I'm glad I had a wait and see attitude, what about clear, have you John cleared up........
  8. Dave B.

    Dave B. Maximus Ultimus Mostimus

    One of the main things I took away from the brief encounters I had with the Fatman, I chatted with him for about ten minutes one time and the other times very much less, is that he will do a lot for you, if and ONLY if, you are playing HIS game.

    He is so good at human manipulation you'll come away starry-eyed thinking what a great guy he is. I did. I realized he tried to do something for me each time. Man, what a great guy! He's a past-master manipulator.

    But later I eventually realized he will only do something for you if you are playing his game. And only his game. If you are not, then he. does. not. care. You mean nothing or less than nothing to him.
  9. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    That is typical of narcissistic personality disorder.
  10. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Reading that letter I laughed out loud when Rogers said Hubbard was the only guy he knew who had a certificate to prove he was sane - then Rogers admits he never actually saw the certificate, it was Hubbard who told him about it. Yeah, just like the "research" he did and all the wonderful things he accomplished in his life. Funny how when you trace them back you find the only evidence is Hubbard's say-so.
    dchoiceisalwaysrs likes this.
  11. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Hubbard might have been referring to the time during the divorce debacle when he stopped off in Chicago (I believe) and had himself examined by a shrink to verify that he was sane, in case Sara tried to have him declared loony. He probably didn't have a certificate, but I'll bet he at least got a letter on the doctor's stationery, as official-looking as possible. (I could probably find the reference; Barefaced Messiah, probably).

    Of course, that this particular claim might have some basis in fact doesn't invalidate your point: that most of Hubbard's claims were groundless.
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
    FoTi likes this.
  12. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron Meritorious

    This is fascinating. I've had bosses like that. They were GREAT bosses to me at the time, and I got on really well with them. But nobody else did. REASON: I recognised early on that they were the type that would treat you well if you said "yes yes yes". But if you dared have your own opinion, it was curtains. So I kept my opinions to myself in their presence. I wasn't sycophantic. I just didn't get in their way, even in social conversation. It hardly makes them great people. But you can get your own way with them by blowing a sufficient amount of smoke up their asses. It's usually enough just to make them feel listened to and heeded. It also seems to be a personality type that does well in life (if you measure it by success in the world). It seems to me that being an arrogant prick is a fairly efficient way to do well in the world.

    It seems that the Sea Org is also like that.

    It was stuff like this that made me think that the idea of trying to help everyone was on philosophically shaky foundations. It presupposes that helping Joe Smith doesn't damage Betty Jones. But the reality is that some aspects of life form a zero-sum game. Helping an asshole to 'go free' makes a rod for everyone else's back. Observing people's behaviour in Scientology (especially asshole Sea Org types) made me think 'is it any wonder that someone got the idea on the whole track that implanting some people to keep them under control might be a good idea?'. Some people, when they increase in 'horsepower' (to use Hubbard's phraseology), use it to the detriment of others. I've observed it in some high IQ people: they use their fast mind to dominate others, in a way that doesn't help the other person at all. The Hubbardian idea that as people become more able and more bright, they will automatically use it to help everyone, does not seem to be uniformly true. It makes me despair of the human race. It also made me question, when I was in Scientology, whether making an asshole more able was even a good idea. How does that benefit anyone else? Making an egotist more capable of dominating those around them. Kindness and ability, unfortunately, don't seem to be very highly correlated, if at all.

    programmer_guy and pineapple like this.
  13. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Wilbur said:
    What Hubbard said was often what he wanted us to believe, or thought we already believed and thus would agree with, not necessarily what he believed himself. Certainly he wasn't really trying to make people "more able and more bright."

    The Affirmations of LRH:
    Wilbur likes this.
  14. pineapple

    pineapple Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes. The reference is Barefaced Messiah.
    Do a Ctrl-F and search for "Chicago."
  15. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    So the document was "a harmless report, saying that he was a creative individual upset by family problems and dissension and it was depressing his work and so forth" and Hubbard told people it was a certificate proving he was sane. Most people would be too embarrassed to mention this to people but Hubbard used it as a badge of honor. What a guy.
    Type4_PTS likes this.
  16. OSAOPS

    OSAOPS Patron with Honors

    Hubbard acquired a number of "badges of honor" which would have embarrassed lesser mortals

    Recall this gem

  17. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

  18. OSAOPS

    OSAOPS Patron with Honors

    More importantly, is Sonya Bianchi (of the August 1950 Shrine Auditorium presentation) still "Clear"?

    Is her recall, eyesight, and other expressions, still perfect?

    (Does someone have to contact her in Maine, to inquire?)
    Type4_PTS and HelluvaHoax! like this.
  19. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron


    What a great car!

    A couple years ago I saw a '63 Avanti parked outside Fenway Park and it's styling fit in well with all the new cars around it. The Avanti did 198MPH on the salt flats of Bonneville and held the speed record for an unmodified production model (minimum 3,000 copies)
    HelluvaHoax! likes this.
  20. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon Gold Meritorious Patron

    NATO and Warsaw Pact would have gone at it all out FoTi; all our magnificent cities would be glow in the dark craters.