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Would *you* ever go back?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Magoo, Jan 15, 2008.

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  1. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm just curious here--if anyone would return to Scientology, "If"---

    For me, there is no "if this happened, I'd return"---due to Hubbard's own
    policies----the next cat will have to follow the same trail, even if DM was
    ever finally outed for good.

    Anyone? What is THE Key thing that got your Scio-Truman show to CRACK?

    For me, it was honestly seeing inside, deep inside of OSA---and realizing
    *my* own auditor had lied to me, got me to open up phony accounts, that
    HE was using to Stop Free Speech.

    I'd already decided I was done with Scientology auditing, after 7 years
    on OT 7.

    I'd already quit Training, due to the Golden Age of Crap.

    So all that was really left was OSA--and that did it.

    I've written tons about waking up---but that was my final straw, really.
    It took a few more months, and a few other key things for it to FULLY
    crack---but how about you?

    Best to all :wink:

    Tory/Magoo~~
     
  2. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron

    I am ashamed to admit that I knew about the GO, knew about the black ops to cave in public critics like Vosper, Kaufman and Cooper. I knew about Hubbard's overboarding and chain locker abuse.

    It is to my discredit that I hoped the good I and others were achieving outweighed the bad that basically I knew LRH and MSH were creating.

    The Happiness Rundown blew me away thanks to the magnificent David Mayo. And I started to individuate more and more from Hubbard's CofS.

    Maybe I would have left at that point, but I'll never know. Because the key thing that then happened was that the CofS declared me and that is what "woke" me up, I'm ashamed to say it was essentially a selfish decision.

    Your questiuon is a good one, Tory. I observed a lot of people put up with or ignore abuses they saw until they were personally affected. All credit to you for working it out from what you observed happening to others! :thumbsup:

    PS No I would never go back. Hubbard's "Tech" seems clumsy, evaluative and invalidative to me now.
     
  3. petraph33

    petraph33 Patron with Honors

    Hi Tory and welcome to this board. It is great to have someone like you here to share experiences. I would never go back. My final straw was the betrayal and dishonesty of a friend. I had been pulled into ethics interviews by CMO and the HCO of my org for some weird accusations and put on the meter to be interviewed. I kept telling them that I had done none of what I was being accused of, up to the point I requested the CO FOLO at the time, one of my - so I thought - real friends, as we had shared tough times together, to come into the room and confirm what I had said. He then came, just to openly lie and deny about a CSW which was coordinated with him, and approved then by my senior in writing as well (which I had kept a copy of good for me), and at that point I just snapped. I realized that this scene was not what I came into Scn for, and this was all about keeping face (if the CO FOLO had agreed with me, he could have lost his post or be com-ev'ed himself I suppose), but not honesty and friendship and real justice - what a fake I thought to myself. I then felt a huge relief when I decided to leave the SO, which was shortly after that specific interview. I had never experienced any relief like it and I knew this was the right thing to do. I had to leave, my time was up, and I even say now that I could have seen those things much earlier, as I was in for 17 years. I only realized those wrong and fake and criminal things, when I was on the leaving routing for (which took me 8 months and was a real nightmare) and after I left. I was still thinking of coming back then, this is why I lived through those 8 months, just to be declared for speaking out about the truth on the internet later anyway. But this is my answer to your question. I would never go back, and will do anything possible to get this totalitarian organization closed down. If there are good bits of technology, they will survive and "make their own way". I am just glad to be out and to have a new and happy life.
     
  4. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I would never, ever return.

    I first left in 1970 and experienced that incredible relief that Petra mentions. To leave the insanity of the original GO environment and all that happened at Saint Hill at that time was just wonderful.

    Unfortunately I am 2nd generation and at the time it was the life of my whole family and I was not in the country of my birth. So I went back.

    I left staff for good in 1982 and thought I had finally walked away to concentrate on motherhood. But in 1989 I was persuaded to help start a Scn school and my reasoning was that study tech would help my kids, and it wasn't staff .... and maybe things had changed after all... :duh:

    That all ended in a disgusting display of paranoia and chaos and with me so sick I almost died. The fact that none of my 'friends' gave a shit what happened to me was the almost final straw.

    It's hard when you have been indoctrinated most of your life. I was constantly hounded to come in for repairs and avoided that for many years, not wanting family disconnection.

    I gave in eventually in 1998 only to spend a week waiting in hallways while someone tried to reconstruct one of my folders with a magnifying glass and tweezers as it has been fire damaged. I was not told of this until many days had passed. As I had limited time and money and children at home, and my distress about that was ignored, it FINALLY hit home just how the machinery all worked.

    I walked out never to return.

    The absurdity of that situation, the non care of me as a person was the cracking point. Nothing had changed in all those years, nothing would change. My faint hope that the aims were true lay in a puddle at my feet.

    However it wasn't until I started reading the net that the final mental hooks were removed . :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2008
  5. Sharone Stainforth

    Sharone Stainforth Silver Meritorious Patron

    I would NEVER ever go back TO Scientology,the Sea Org or the Church of Scientology ever.

    I saw many things wrong with Scientology,the overboardings,people locked up,
    ethics put in on people who had done nothing to warrant the abuse they received.

    The final straw for me was my Dad had been missing for 5 months,no word of where or how he was,and then being put in Liability in the hold.That broke me.
    Mentally.

    All these years later and reading the abuse and suffering of so many people,really breaks my heart.It is so unfair.

    In a way i have gone back to Scientology,but NOT because i want to be a Scientologist.

    I'm "in"to Scientology because i want to see the End of them,the End of Miscavidge,the End of Celebrities like Tom Cruise using his fame and money to promote an Authoritarian Cult.

    Every day i read more and more lies from the CofS and i know them to be lies,first hand.

    Thats all i need to know how good it is to be OUT.

    Tamasin:)
     
  6. spbill

    spbill Patron with Honors

    If by "go back" you mean repair the ARC-break between myself and Scientologists in good standing then sure, I'd be happy to resolve it.

    I don't believe in disconnection. The only explanation I see for why they still use it is that they're afraid exposure to "other ideas" could somehow shake the faith of cult members. In my view that sort of "faith" needs shaking and only good would come of it in the long run. Isolation is a short-term solution (at best) which can only be justified if one has the right answer to start with. If one doesn't have the right answer it increases the length of time he spends in the sleepy fog until something from the outside manages to get in to wake him up. I acknowledge Hubbard's position that enlightenment isn't going to be reached by consensus or committee work. If everyone on the planet is aberrated except one individual, that individual doesn't consult with the masses to determine which direction to take. At one time or another many have thought they had the ultimate truth but it hasn't held up. Perhaps the ultimate truth isn't something we can hold on to :)
    Bill
     
  7. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    If I were to "go back" it would be merely to see the tumbleweeds blowing through the empty compounds and fenced areas that used to be part of Scientology.

    If I were to ever go back to an org it would be to watch the rats run through the empty rooms and corridors.

    If I were to ever go back it would be to help my friends pack up their gear and their lives and get the hell out of there.
     
  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    No.

    I would if there were considerable changes, keeping and expanding on the good and tossing the bad, but then it wouldn't be "going back", would it? :)

    Paul
     
  9. Pascal

    Pascal Silver Meritorious Patron

    Back

    I'd go back if they named me Commodore! Arrrrrrrrrrrrrr mateys!
     
  10. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thanks for all of your responses!

    PMD: :omg: Argh.

    Paul- You *may* have a point---I guess I just don't see it, even if "The bad'
    were promised to be thrown out. There wasn't enough "Good" for me to
    re-join, and I have re-connected with tons of nifty people outside of C of S.
    Mick: Absolutely! :thumbsup: I love that--only to get your friends out. That
    I agree with, fully, but then we wouldn't really be going back "in", would
    we? Great descriptions, too.
    SP Bill---
    No, I don't mean that: I'm 100% against "Disconnection" too, and would any day be happy to speak with any Scientologist. Talking with them, handling upsets, isn't re-joining C of S.

    Re "Ultimate Truth"---I guess I had enough
    of that, slugging away on OT 7 for 7 years--and seeing SO little actual products. I finally started LOOKING at monitors other "Wogs" use for "Truth",
    and that helped me greatly. Until a LOT of very important day-to-day things are fixed, and people in great need are surviving much better---to me
    worrying about "The Ultimate Truth", for me, misses what's actually important. I may one day change--but haven't, yet.
    Any Scientologist who would like to speak to me, feel free to give me a call--
    I'm always happy to talk with people. It's MUCH easier than typing, for me.

    tamasin-sp---Good job on getting out. I'm sorry to hear about your Dad, did you ever find him?

    Free to Shine: Out in '82! EXCELLENT!!! :happydance: I remember those days, so well, and SO Many good friends leaving, then. Unfortunately, *I* had my letter (and believed it was from "Ron") saying, "Continue in the HGC and we'll see you up the line". I'd gotten in Scientology to help others---then routed out of the Sea Org due to medicine I needed. So when they tried to give me a "Freeloader's Debt" I wrote to Ron, who said they are FOS, I didn't owe all that money, and the above quote. That kept me stuck "In" for 30 years.
    Amazing, eh? I'm still amazed at how much I watched and "Flipped off"--until I finally woke UP. :duh:

    petraph33---"not what I got into Scientology to do"---That's EXACTLY how I felt, when I finally woke up. I still ask the OSA ops who spam ARS: "Is this
    *honestly* what you got into Scientology to do? This is IT?"
    Congrats on your new life! :clap:

    Lionheart---I don't believe in "Shame"---when you were "in", you were being a good Scientologist, doing what you did, weren't you? That's not to say there's no responsibility, as there is, for sure, but "Shame" I don't believe is part of responsibility--does that make sense? (I do believe recongnising one DID do things that were wrong is totally appropriate, and I have seen a few-not many-but a few who did do really bad things, got out and laughed about them, and that most people I know thought was just wrong).

    Doing things to expose the abuses of Scientology, that helps others not get suckered "in". Telling your story---what you watched, that helps people think about what they may be part of, right now. That's all important. Most of us who were "in" for any time, watched or saw or read or did things that now we wouldn't, eh? But please don't put yourself down as it certainly doesn't help you, and really won't help anyone else, either. If no one has said this to you, here ya go:
    "By the powers invested in me, You, Lionheart, are forgiven!" :yes:

    (That goes for anyone who needs forgiving --hey! I believe in forgiveness!)

    My best to you ALL and thanks for doing all that you do, and helping all that you help.
    :clap:

    Tory/Magoo~~~
    Burbank, CA
    (818) 588-3044
     
  11. duddins

    duddins Patron Meritorious

    Mick said it for me......I have dreamed that I have gone back. Strange dreams that I was back in and noone knew that I had been declared SP.
    (former CMO missionaire and CO FOLO Latam, I was declared for blowing)

    In reality and out of the dreams, I would only go back to find my lost friends in the rubble of a collapsed C of S. There are so many that I would love to give a big hug to.

    The void between us dissolved, it would be a joyful moment........to let them know that all will be well with life amoung the 'wogs.' The layers peeliing, they would find out how fun life can be. Noone peering down on their every move, no longer slaves to Hubbard's fairy tale. Free to lay down their own paths and to enjoy self determinism.

    Otherwise............nope. Don't need it....... Don't want it....I'm done. Too happy out here taking my part in making world a better place and doing what I love to do.
     
  12. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Duddins...

    I agree---100%! I remember being "in" and when the David Mayo deal happened, they had a newsletter that they wrote.

    Many people talked about things just like you did, and I remember people laughing at it, going on and on about "Oh My God---they must have huge
    missed withholds!" I had been trained and Interned at Flag as a Sec Checker,
    so I saw the world that way, too. If someone is so thrilled they don't have to get off withholds, they MUST have them.

    The odd thing is that isn't it, at all. Once out---you realize first of all,
    Much of that is created by Scientology, for Scientology. Sec Checking costs
    TONS of money--so they keep *that* drum beating.

    Secondly--it's really no one's business.

    Thirdly---it just DOESN'T matter as much as Hubbard made it out to be.
    Sure, IF you do something wrong, and someone nearly finds out--you'll
    feel bad. Most people either admit it, or find another way to get over it.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is as I read your post I could hear the OSA ops laughing, (whether here, or from my past) and I felt myself thanking God and the Net and the Ex-Scientologists,and the critics that I'm free from that entire TRAP,
    as that IS what it is.:happydance: :clap: :thewave:

    My very best :)

    Tory/Magoo~~
     
  13. ExScnDude

    ExScnDude Patron with Honors

    I have undergone so much sec-checking that for years I had this weird feeling that I had committed some horrible crime.

    I laugh about it now - but for a few years there, every once in a while, that feeling would come on strong - and I'd look for a bit with the idea - "Gosh! Did I do something really bad and have somehow forgotten about it?"

    I'm hear to tell you that massive amounts of sec-checking is not good for your mental health.
     
  14. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    So true.

    I hope someone reading this remembers all the 'withholds' they coughed up from somewhere...anywhere... or expanded on, in order to be acceptable. Did that really make you feel better?

    You don't have to do that out here. :D
     
  15. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    Uh. My answer is No, I would never ever ever ever in a million years (or billion years) go back.

    Except maybe to pick up my familiy members that finally woke up to the truth. Otherwise, no.
     
  16. Colleen K. Peltomaa

    Colleen K. Peltomaa Silver Meritorious Patron


    After first being a devout Christian and then a devout Scientologist, I've come to the conclusion that all belief systems are abberrative with someone inventing god or gods. One must find their own truth and make their own discoveries. One of the best relationships I can have is with my better self.

    Saving the planet or clearing the planet, or whatever one calls it, is for me at this moment a one person at a time activity. For example, If I could just help my husband I would die happy. There is no longer any games condition, us against the sp's.
     
  17. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Ditto, Bea---

    And Colleen---I couldn't agree more.

    Sooooooooooooooo glad you're all here!

    My very best :)

    Tory/Magoo~~
     
  18. lionheart

    lionheart Gold Meritorious Patron



    Thanks Tory, but I need to clarify something. Since leaving Scn in 82 I have carried on looking at philosophies and other systems and am in great case shape, much better than I ever was in Scn. :happydance:

    I actually can feel just about any emotion without feeling any persisting charge! It's a paradox but once you freely allow feelings, they don't bother you. :thumbsup:

    So now I can look at my contribution in Scn and how I ignored LRH and MSH's abuses and feel ashamed of my part in it without feeling any charge or wishing it were otherwise.

    Looking at what I did as a Scientologist the bad and the good is wonderful. The shame, the pride, the grief, the fear, the joy, the ecstasy are all delicious! :thumbsup:

    So I can freely and joyfully say I am ashamed, without any regret, of how I ignored the Hubbard black ops that I knew about, I just recognise it as a done fact.

    I think one of the bigest problems an ex-scientologist faces is coming to terms with the emotions they now experience about their time in Scn.

    It took me a decade or two to recover. I hope it is faster now for people, thanks to the internet.

    I believe we each have to accept our feelings fully and cry if we need to about our story.

    I hope we each reach the point where eventually it is just a story. A wonderful, exciting, terrible story accepted without protest or regret! :happydance:
     
  19. RolandRB

    RolandRB Rest in Peace

    I'd go back when those worthless Sea org members stopped getting paid $500 for just pissing off and dying on their own in agony somehwere using tax-exempt money.

    Praise be to Source!!
     
  20. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Such true words LH.
    You have helped me a lot. :thumbsup: