ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



You are being dis-informed about radiation in general

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Rmack, Mar 18, 2011.

View Users: View Users
  1. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    I posted this elsewhere, but on second thought, I figured it was important enough to start a thread with:


    As they did during Chernobyl, the Powers that Be are not telling you the whole picture concerning this nuclear disaster because they know it would scare the crap out of you.

    Years and years ago I worked as a temp at the San Onofre nuclear power station as a 'jumper'.

    We got dressed in bubble-suits with air hoses keeping them positively pressurized to keep contaminates out. We wore several personal radiation monitoring devices because due to Federal law, we could only be subjected to radiation exposure up to a certain mandated level each year.

    I 'burned out' after two jumps of about and hour and a half each inside the generator.

    Our job was to repair the steam generator. As was explained earlier in this thread, this giant device is used to heat 'clean' water into steam from the contaminated water that actually passes over the nuclear pile, thus separating the contaminated water from merely exposed water. We were installing sleeves inside the inch-wide tubes that the contaminated water ran through, and which clean water ran over to be heated. This meant we had to work inside the contaminated part of the steam generator.

    As we exited, we passed through several zones, pealing off a layer of suit (we wore about six) and being thoroughly scanned for contamination each time. the suits were multi-bagged up after one use, and buried in a deep hole in Nevada somewhere.

    Btw, after spending all these bucks (I got paid well) they opted to close down the reactor, as there was still a slight chance that a leak would still occur, contaminating the rest of the process, and eventually getting into the ecosystem, which would be very, very, very bad.

    My whole point is that there are really two kinds of hazardous radiation 'poisoning'. The first, which we all get all the time is exposure. In other words, we are getting hit with varying amounts of radiation from a remote source, such as the Sun, stars, or an x-ray machine.

    The other kind is much worse; contamination. This means that radioactive material has actually entered your body somehow. It might be inhaled, ingested, or otherwise absorbed. This is considerably worse, because then you are continuously exposed to radiation, concentrated on whatever part of your body it lodges in.

    Now, just about anything becomes a radiation contaminate if it's bombarded with enough radiation from a powerful source, but the longer it's exposed, and the power of the source of radiation is a huge factor in how 'dirty' anything becomes.

    When they tell you that it's only 20 times the background radiation, or start comparing it to dental x-rays, they are dis-informing you. There's a huge bloody difference in radiation from a star, and radiation from a dust particle in your lung, and can't be quantized by any scale of radiation severity, which they have changed over the years.
    __________________
    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011
  2. Jachs

    Jachs Gold Meritorious Patron

    I sort of presumed this to be the case, ECO wise, thats why nuclear power potential faults out weigh any good , you cannot promise it wont leak somehow.

    Thanks for this.
     
  3. shadow

    shadow Patron with Honors

    This is a common mistake: confusing radiation with radioactive material. Radioactive material is the source of the radiation, or what emits the radiation (energy). If the radiation is ionizing, it can cause damage to living cells (think DNA damage that could cause a cell to die or become cancer), but the radiation itself does not make things radioactive (except as GoNuclear noted neutron bombardment).

    Becoming contaminated means that actual radioactive material has been ingested or absorbed. This radioactive material will emit radiation until it has decayed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011
  4. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    what type of radiation

    The only type of radiation that causes a substance to become radioactive is neutron radiation or bombardment, and the only sources of neutron radiation are either nuclear detonations or operating reactors.

    An alpha emitter spews out helium nucleii, which are highly positively charged, +2, but these particles are stopped easily by a thin sheet of paper. Beta radiation is electrons of nuclear origin, beta particles are also stopped easily. Gamma radiation are photons of nuclear origin ... that is, high energy electromagnetic radiation. A two inch thickness of lead will attenuate gammas by a factor of 10. A 24" thickness of water will also attenuate by a factor of 10. None of those types of radiation will cause anything to become radioactive in and of itself. The main damage is caused by exposure, particularly if exposed for a long time, to gammas. Alpha emitters are no problem unless they are ingested. Inside the body they do horiffic damage.

    Back to the subject of a neutron flux ... neutron radiation or flux from a reactor will cause all manner of substances to become radioactive. For the most part, these radioactive isotopes are highly radioactive and very short lived and will decay away to essentially no probem in a matter of a few days ... HOWEVER ... there are exceptions. Cobalt is a big one. Cobalt 59, which is the usual isotope of cobalt, will pick up a neutron and become Cobalt 60. One milligram of Cobalt 60 is a one curie source, and, at a distance of one meter, will cause a dose rate of 1 rem per hour, meaning you will exceed an annual max permissable dose in 5 hours (at least that was the max permissable when I was in the nuke program). Most people pick up approx 250 millirem per year from background radiation from radon decay in houses, solar radiation, and cosmic rays that arrive from all points in the universe after traveling only God knows how long or how far to get here. A 50 rem one time dose is the amount at which damage becomes detectable.

    I suspect that most people on planet Earth will not pick up more than a few extra millirem from the Japanese reactor disaster, but the people over there may very well be upgaphugged as far as contamination goes.

    Pete
     
  5. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I was recently advised to have a radioactive injection to destroy my thyroid, as other alternatives, according to this doctor, were not viable.

    So the idea is that the thyroid takes up the radioactive idodine and ceases to work. The assurances were that there is no harm to other parts of the body and no greater risk of cancer. I know the dose is relatively small (15 millicuries), however it's not a choice I am going to take, as the original symptoms don't warrant such drastic action. And I don't believe the assurances.

    I'd appreciate insight and data on this if anyone has the knowledge.
     
  6. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    huh?

    Why destroy your thyroid?

    Pete
     
  7. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    The TV News reports keep comparing this with background radiation or clinical X-ray machines.

    When are they going to address the issue of breathing in radio-active particles that become lodged inside the body?
    This is different than what they keep talking about.

    I am not yet worried about this. I just think that they are not addressing this real issue.
     
  8. Big Hug for Shiney!

    " huh?
    Why destroy your thyroid?

    Pete"
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Not to speak for Shiney, but to give an answer:

    I think this is pretty standard treatment for when a person's thyroid gets out of whack and starts misbehaving. Give it enough of a dose of specifically targeted radiation to make it cease functioning, then medically replace thryoid hormones for the rest of the person's life with drugs, to control the dosage and manage the symptoms.

    Pretty drastic action to take, but often recommended to middle aged-women whose bodies are changing (again! :eyeroll:)

    Best wishes to you Shiney for very good vibrant health now and in the future! :thumbsup:
     
  9. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Yep, that's it in a nutshell. :)
     
  10. Hey Guy, how tiny are these particles? Is it just dust that has been contaminated? Would a regular good anti-germ kind of medical nose and mouth mask prevent inhaling them? Or do you need special breathing apparatus?

    Should we be sending a lot of masks to Sendai?
     
  11. IMMORTAL

    IMMORTAL Patron Meritorious

    I wonder how this will affect our plant and animal food sources as well.
     
  12. fortymarriedandbalding

    fortymarriedandbalding Patron with Honors

    A bit of perspective here


    Uranium and other similar radioactive materials are very common in our environment and they occur naturally (and decay naturally)– they can be found just about anywhere where there is soil or rock. It is also common in the ocean. If you spend a day in the garden, you probably touched some. A uranium mine is simply a place where there is a high enough concentration of the stuff to make mining it a profitable venture.

    These very low concentration of uranium exists in other mines like coal mines. When we dig the coal up and burn it in an electricity plant, we concentrate this uranium and for years it was spewed out the smoke stacks of power plants. These days, developed countries have filters to catch this material, although it is not 100% effective. I am not sure about less developed countries with their dirty coal mines.

    The US has conducted many, many open air nuclear weapons tests on its own soil (and quite a few on Australian soil – the bastards). Each of these emitted radiation levels many, many times higher than that which is currently being emitted by the nuclear power plants in Japan.
     
  13. Jump

    Jump Operating teatime

    It was the pommies that ran the Maralinga test site (the (wingeing) bastards).
     
  14. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    It all sounds very alarming. Still I know as an ex that all I have to do is eat chocolate and some vitamins and I will be fine. Can't remember which vits, so I'll just eat a bar of chocolate every day and I know I'll remain healthy.

    If I get really worried I'll eat two bars.

    Thanks Ron for saving mankind!

    We should send the vultures out to Japan with bars of chocolate.
     
  15. Jump

    Jump Operating teatime

    Don't forget a pack of ciggies a day to stave off lung cancer :duh:
     
  16. Hopefully, not much at all if they can keep it contained as they are working to do. :begging:

    I know everybody involved are working really hard to do just that. The plant workers and utility workers are making heroic efforts to keep the spent fuel piles wet down and cooler, get the power back to the cooling system for the reactors, and generally get things back under control. I wish they had some of those big water-bombing planes that we use to fight wildfires here to dump seawater on the whole mess!

    I'm hoping and praying for the best outcome to a bad situation.
     
  17. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    Thanks Jump! you reminded me just in time, I was about to give up. Now I realise that I need to smoke more! I do need the nicotinomide, the stuff they put in pills just isn't natural enough to kill cancer.
     
  18. fortymarriedandbalding

    fortymarriedandbalding Patron with Honors


    I stand corrected - thanks
     
  19. Arthur Dent

    Arthur Dent Silver Meritorious Patron

  20. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Nope.. There was no chance of 'saving' the plant after using seawater to cool.. Or even after 2 of the reactors had the fuel rods out of the cooling water (probably partial meltdown).

    And worse.. Reactor 3 (I think it was.) has it's fuel stored in the spendt fuel pool.. Ie. The still fissionable rods are OUT of the steel confinement of the proper reactor.

    Problem is that the fuel rods in the reactors keeps building up heat. They will until cooling is restored somehow. If cooling fails they will get very hot. Up to 3000 or 4000 degrees celcious, which wil cause the melted fuel, about a 100 tons per reactor, to simply melt it's way down and out the bottom of the reactor confinements.. If nothing explodes violently it will contiue to melt right through the earth itself.

    So before any burying in concrete can be done the fuel rods needs to be removed. They will melt right on no matter how much concrete you pour over it.

    The problem is very serious if the fuel has melted.. You simply can't remove the fuel if it's not 'rods' anymore, but rather a radioactive furnace in the bottom of the reactor. Too late to do anything then..

    But something will explode if there's a full meltdown in one of the reactors. If that happens it will make any attemps at cooling the other reactors 3 impossible. Instantly lethal radiosity anywhere near. It will mean that all 4 reactors will melt down.

    There's hope that they can get proper cooling going now that they have electrical power again. They still need to get the pumps, or some new pumps, running. If they succeed they will be able to remove those fuel rods that aren't already melted. But even that is not a simple task, since the cranes to do that was on the top floor of the buildings that was ravaged by the hydrogen explosions.

    The people who work on this inside that nuclear plant are doing it knowing well that they die doing it...

    Let's pray for them and their success.. Shit.. I don't know how I feel.. This is horrible!

    .