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You Can Close Your Books Now

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Wisened One, Aug 29, 2010.

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  1. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh really?

    Out of all the millions of confessions given each week in the RCC, can you give any modern day examples of a breach of priest/penitent confidentiality in the RCC?

    I've stayed up with current events my whole life and I'm not aware of any institutionalized and systematic breach of this trust in any religion except one - Scientology!
  2. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    This is something that has been occurring to me lately, too.

    Cults fuck with the social side of you.

    A "cult" is basically a sub-culture, with different values, norms and manners than the culture around it. When you socialize yourself into the values, manners and norms of a cult, you isolate yourself socially from the members of the wider culture around you.

    Part of the effect of this is can be seen in the inappropriateness with which you see cult members like Tom Cruise, David Miscavige, Marty and others behave. "OSA Footbullets", TC crazy rants, Marty's allergy to law enforcement, are all inappropriate responses and behaviors from the viewpoint of the norms, manners and values of the real culture around them.

    A cult is a false culture, especially a cult like Scientology. It was intentionally created for its own self-serving purposes. It has artificial values, artificial manners and artificial norms. When you incorporate all that artificiality into your personality as a member of the cult, you have to re-integrate your personality back into the culture when you leave. Recognizing the inappropriateness of your cult values, norms and manners is part of that process.

    I, too, still catch myself confessing to things which are inappropriate socially.

    The thing is, my habit of "confessing" is more honest than my pre-cult habit of self-deception. Maybe this was just part of growing up, but I did learn to better tolerate my own weaknesses and shortcomings. Sec-checking DID teach me to be more tolerant and honest with my self. And I have benefited enormously through my own realizations in that area.

    Now it is just a matter of deciding how open and frank I should be with others in all the different types of social situations in which I find myself.

    Besides people thinking I'm a little weird, the self-honesty I developed as a scientologist has not really hurt me that much socially. People always thought I was a little weird anyway.

    Because, you know what?

    I am a little weird.

    And I like that about me.

    Always have, always will.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  3. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    :goodposting: GT! :yes:

    I'm coming to terms with this about myself (and others). I AM weird (And was while a scn, too). And guess what? IT'S OK! (the detrimental weirdnesses aside, obviously, not talking about those cases).

    I'm learning to relax and enjoy myself and others around me, more. And also don't feel like I have to share everything about my thoughts and actions.

    This is good.
  4. TR'SIN

    TR'SIN Patron with Honors

    Who's The Judge?

    Just when I thought I was over this board - and decided - I'll be done before Emma closes shop. :duh:

    Wisened One you started a thread that has brought thoughtful and honest comment, a major reason I began posting. I could feel the thoughts forming as I read each post. And this confession (if you will) comes freely for the same reason we all share our stories on this board.

    Most of the wonderful friends I made in Scn and others I just met along the way, fell in the catagory of the previous posts. Unlike these fine folks, I barely made it into the Org. In fact, I had several points in my life that made me a risk. If I was in charge of Ethics at the time and operated standardly; I never would have allowed myself to join the group.:dieslaughing::dieslaughing:

    My life was, has and still is risky way too many times. I've never been content to just sit by and watch life. Its been mostly about stiring the pot and like my quote (which has never changed since my 1st post) : "Livin' Lovin" and laughin'."

    My many escapades dealt me a string of Sec Checks, FPRD, and lots of scrutiny. I've been Comm Ev'd, had Ethics Hearings and Boards of Inquiries. I have no idea how many O/W write-ups for various sins. However, I do not have many lower condtion assignments left in those awful files. Simple reason, my stats were up. I'm still not sure with all the crap happening bass-ackwards how I did it and take no glory in recalling it.

    When the death knell was dealt and I was told to leave - get out - go away; I did and uncerimoniously later was Declared SP.

    I left the Org, got a job, moved to a nicer part of town, up-graded my car, took trips, spent time with my family, saw movies, read books, etc. etc. All the things I had sacrificed for my time in Scn.

    Twelve years later, ran into my buddy on facebook, checked out esmb and didn't even know how much it had affected me until my stories started to flow. That rubbish they push off as being Ethics is just plain snooping for blackmail material; both realistically and pyschologically. The making amends part is so you'll disabuse yourself of the idea that you are worth a crap. And some of it is to just plain degrade you openly to your peers.

    Not one person on this planet has the right to judge another. Only when we agree to join together as a group (city, state, ACLU or American Swimming Coaches of America for example) do we employ the need for rules and regulations - ethics and morals.

    So, if we were totally free, in my estimation; we wouldn't need ethics at all.
    And that's my 2 cents.

    Tk U lovely WO 4 the opportunity.:thumbsup:
  5. Lurker5

    Lurker5 Gold Meritorious Patron


    THIS /\ /\ /\

    Shame on co$
  6. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    Here's another thing that has been occurring to me lately:

    Sometimes I will come across something I'd written before the cult, in a journal, or in some school assignment. I will find common threads in this pre-cult writing that weave their way through my cult "self", and right up into the "self" I am today.

    Those threads are ME.

    I am finding that I joined the cult for reasons different than others joined. And those reasons still exist in me, and will exist in me until I die. They are the threads that tie me all together, and it's through them I have learned all the lessons I've learned.

    Scientology was one step I took on my path through life. I learned a lot from trying my best to make it work. That it did not work fully does not mean that it did not work at all, for my own purposes.

    In the end, I got out of Scientology everything it could give, and everything I needed from it.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  7. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    There are good things that suck people into Scientology. And, good things that get them out. And it's especially fine seeing people find other things in themselves that have *nothing* to do with Scientology.

    I can't tell you how many (or which) people on ESMB I love for all of the above qualities.

    But, I do :)

  8. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    God, you all are good! :)

    Thank YOU, for sharing these insights, you guys! :yes: :grouphug:

    Reading and posting here has saved my sanity. Finding old friends, making new ones (here and elsewheres in life) is THE best Therapy one could have, ya know?

    For a while, I was angry that we concentrated our powers into such lofty, fake goals as scn!!

    But as I've been diffusing back into the stream of life, I realize I couldn't have done it without you, ESMB! :cloud9:
  9. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    I don't know of any modern day examples, but I wouldn't rule it out. I was speaking about historical accounts I've read about.

    The same thing goes for 'indulgences'. As far as I know, that practice has ceased in modern times.

    Let's hope the deeply ingrained perversion that was much more a part of that cult's institutionalized policy than most people know, that is getting so much press these days is the next to be stopped. I would characterize that as a big-time breach of trust.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2010
  10. smartone

    smartone My Own Boss

    I confessed 'em all on LOC, made sure I got me money's worth :whistling:
  11. smartone

    smartone My Own Boss

    I was born and raised in London's East End and when I was a kid, I had a friend called Mary who was Catholic. Every now and again she would put a scarf on her head and drag me along with her to the local Catholic church for Confession and she'd disappear behind a curtain. I used to sit in a church pew waiting for her until she came out. It's strange thinking about that now. At the time, I never even questioned it.
  12. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    the catholic church does not 'forgive' sins. The *priest* stands in loco christus and reports to no one. He doesn't take notes; he doesn't discuss your 'case' with his senior. He's not allowed to under oath.

    He's not allowed to divulge your sins to *anyone*, even if he knows of your intention to commit a crime. If you do not meet the criteria for absolution, your sins will *not* be absolved, but, they will not be reported to *anyone*. What's divulged in catholic confession is *strictly* between you and god and the fallible representative who may possibly violate that trust, but, will never do so as part of an accepted process.

    I'm not a catholic (any more), but, there is a *huge* difference between catholic confession and Scientology's 'confessionals' or 'auditing'.

  13. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    I have read of this oath broken for political purposes as late as the 1930's

    You should read some of the stuff I've read on the history of child molestation in the RCC. It seems that only a small part of what was pretty much an ingrained tradition is only now coming out. This was known about and at the very least tolerated at the highest levels.

    Do you think that a cult that would allow that would balk at a little intel gathering and sharing, especially if it promoted it's agenda?
  14. HappyGirl

    HappyGirl Gold Meritorious Patron

    Re OP, totally WO!! That was the exact thought when I got on ESMB - I was always getting the third degree about the websites I visited. :) They never approved. And once I realized I would never have to make excuses to an MAA ever again, I went hog wild on the internet. The rest is history. :)
  15. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    The fact is that Roman Catholic *dogma* and every element of scripture demands absolute inviolability of the confessional. By every measure a priest is directly *forbidden* to reveal confessional information to anyone, whether his superiors or secular authorities.

    The reason for the 'confessional booth' is a primitive measure to allow 'anonymity' for the person confessing; because *his* confession wasn't important to anyone but himself and god. Does that mean it's how it always worked out? Don't make me laugh. But, that's the *theory*.

    Scientology 'confessional' is by definition shared with others. At the very least the C/S, but, more typically the Ethics Officer who may only be notified that he needs to run a 'sec check' on the target. And, in the more common system, the 'PC Folders' will be shared by staff for a giggle.

    Anyway, the difference isn't one of quantity; it's one of kind.

  16. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    Uh, sorry, but that's not how I read the text.

    The whole idea of an intermediary besides Jesus is un-scriptural. No matter what 'hocus pocus' is assigned to it. You don't need a priest to intervene between you and God. He hears you without that dude.

    The whole idea that you need some one else to be;


    Is a non Biblical 'blasphemy' by definition.

    The whole idea that people can substitute for 'God' in your 'confessions' is the evil going on here.

    Stop it! You know who you are accountable to.
  17. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    I don't know where you get this. It's not Roman Catholicism.

    Per *dogma* two people 'marry' themselves. The sacrament only requires them. The celebration and rite includes a priest, but, it's not *necessary* to the sacrament.

    Absolution/forgiveness is between you and God. A 'good act of contrition' is the core of the Catholic *sacrament* of confession. The priest is not necessary; absolution is from God.

    'Saved' not a Roman Catholic concept. Yes, accepting Jesus as the Lord and your own savior is important, however, it's quite possible to stray from the 'path' even once you've found it. And to return with a simple recognition of your own fault.

    Baptism is *also* one of the odd *sacraments* that does not require a priest. Nor, for that matter, even the willing agreement of the person being baptized :) Technically, a hindu can baptize a month-old baby with complete legitimacy, if only the form of the ritual is maintained.

  18. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    For sure it's not Catholicism. The historical Jews around the time of Christ and before never had any ceremonial marriage rites. They considered sex with a virgin to be marriage. The idea that you needed someone else for that, forgiveness of sins, qualification for heaven, etc are obviously control mechanisms that was instituted by the RCC, which all great protestant reformers considered to be 'the Whore of Babylon' described in detail in the Revelation.

    Indeed, so why should you ever confess to anyone else?


    Uh, I don't think most non-Catholics would agree with infant baptism. It's suppose to follow a free will acceptance of the Gospel, which can only happen after the age of responsibility, usually considered puberty.
  19. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather

    I get your point; the policy is different.

    Even if it's been violated throughout history, the RCC confession is suppose to be confidential.

    I personally know of peoples PC folders being examined by all kinds of un-authorized people for other reasons. Like, people checking out potential spouses in the S.O.

    I remember seeing unlocked rooms full of active folders just laying around, unguarded. In my day anyone could have just walked in there and checked out anyone's supposedly confidential info. Whereas on the other hand, they guarded Laffy's cheap sci fi story of 'OT III' like it was atomic secrets.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2010