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You Shouldn't have to Have before you can do.

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Chowderhead, Dec 31, 2007.

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  1. Chowderhead

    Chowderhead Patron

    Is it just me or was this the one of the most frustrating pieces of crap ever uttered. While on staff I was the Dir of Public Contact. One of my stats was Div6 Promo Out. If the Org had a good week the week before then I was able to buy paper and get OCA's printed and pay for bulk mailing. Sometimes it would be 20-30k OCAs. Then of course we would have a bad week and the next week I would not get any money at all. I would have to spend time trying to get donations from public to get my OCAs printed then I would have to get people to help me go do handouts and place them on cars and such. the week would end and I would have about 5k out. STAT CRASH!!!!!!This always seemed fundamentally unfair to me and of all the things in scientology it was the hardest for me to rationalize. It may have eventually led to me leaving. Well that and the PES was an insane freak.
  2. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    A major part of the trap was to fixate you into a short time-span. Only up until Thursday 2.00pm. No future gets planned beyond that. No past accomplishment is relevant after that.

    It's called slavery.
  3. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    You know I think this is one I had stored up for later examination, I'm glad you mention it. It is just so ILLOGICAL! :duh:
  4. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Doing and Having go hand-in-hand. You have to Have before you can DO AND you have to Do before you can Have. It's a gradual stepping up - one thing after another.

    I had to get my 1st professional job to gain (have) knowledge and experience that I needed. After I got that experience then I could make the next step... and then the next. It's Do-Have then Do-Have... one step after another. One step depends on the previous one - however large or small.
  5. Chowderhead

    Chowderhead Patron

    that is exactly why that statement is so insane. How can I send out promo without having the promo to send? How can I get promo with no money? These are the questions I constantly wrestled with. The other prevalent one was "How is this my fault?" The attitude was that if I did not have what I needed it was because I was not being OT and I was not making it go right. That is a constant eval and inval. For the most part the budget was out of my control but I was made to feel like it was. Many times we would have had the money if we didn't have to send money to Flag off the top.
  6. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Isn't this just a little piece of typical Hubbardian profound as deep shit philosophy? - And then dublicated, understood, demoed, drilled and applied.. (How the hell does this kind of 'philosophy' survive 'study tech'? - I think we somehow neglected to actually use study tech!)

    Reminds me of this old saying of similar value:

    "If you can't learn by your mistakes, there's no good reason to make another one!"

  7. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    The correct approach would be to take control over the budget. Now that wouldn't be an overnight thing. It would take some time.

    "Making it go right" without any planning (even rudimentary) is insanity.

    Using one's own money, when one is not controlling the budget, is also insanity because it is extraneous input, and an indication that the main activity is not viable.

    The goal is to make an activity viable and that is the responsibility of the person in control of the budget.

  8. jodie

    jodie Patron with Honors

    Aha! You were not "being OT". Heh.

    (see thread on "No case on post demonstrates that Scientology is a Con").

    Yes, the mind boggles at just how insane it all was. Utter lunacy. Many flew over the cuckoos nest.

    Thanks very much for this post, it once again demonstrates the insanity of the Con.

    - jodie
  9. Chowderhead

    Chowderhead Patron

    You cannot apply logic to a scientology organization. There is no room for logic. Only obedience. I cannot count how many times I had to follow a policy even when I knew it would not work or was just plain wrong.
  10. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    The truth is, you do have to have before you can do.

    Think about it.

    Even if you just want to wash your car you need a rag and water.

    It's self evident truth.

  11. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    You also need to have a car! :)
  12. jodie

    jodie Patron with Honors


    - jodie
  13. Alanzo

    Alanzo Bardo Tulpa

    There goes Alan again... filling in the missing pieces on the tech that no one had ever thought about...:duh:
  14. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Silver Meritorious Sponsor

    Next step: making a Ferarri out of a Yugo

  15. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Syas Chowderhead: "Then I HAD to spend it that week. There was no saving money for dry weeks."

    before I got kicked out in '82 I was the OES. FP meeting were a huge Q and A squabble waste of time so I just took over. I averaged out the last six months disbursement amounts to each division, got the percentage breakdown of that and then each week I gave each division head that percentage of the available money. they could spend it or save it - it was their's to use.

    Boy did they LOVE this system - it worked like a beauty and the whole DevT FP meeting crap was simply bypassed.

    Then FOLO got to hear of this system and I was in the shit again.
  16. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    The main problem in the staff arena is that people get punished for originating ANYTHING.

    As a staff member you can copy and recite.

    It is it's own kind of process to mock that up all the time.

    I had a LOT of case gain as a staff member.

    Enough so that I hit return of self determinism and realized it was time to move on.

    The main problem people have with leaving from MY viewpoint, is that it is hard to leave something for nothing (and if you have been on staff you have nothing when you leave.) You leave with no money, no work, no friends, no group, no life, no home. That scares the hell out of a lot of people, they cannot confront starting again from ground zero. It's a HUGE ORIGINATION and if you haven't originated in years they think it can't be done!

    You got punished for originating.

    The Sea Org and all of those policies were not my origination.

    But I originated many times a new life from nothing before I ever went in to the Sea Org.

    It is a HUGE high to walk away from everything and start again from ground zero.

    But the main handicap I see people leave with is weakened ability to originate.

    It's a talent and it has to be practiced.

    If you are punished or prevented for originating for YEARS you loose confidence to do it.

    You have to mock that ability up again.

    I practiced on my origination weekly in the Sea Org through other avenues. I had to. It didn't feel right to me not to originate. I did odd things but I made it a habit at least once a week to go in a different direction than anyone else was going in.

    If they all left for the night to go to berthing I headed to a pub and and drank with whoever wasn't in a uniform.

    If you understand it you get around it or blow through it.

    When you can't even originate your own food, clothes and shelter you are boxed in with a thetan gag order.

    That's why the justice in the Church is so fucked up. That MUST be originated.

    That's why the 2D is never ever celebrated or granted existance in the Sea Org, it is evidence of origination.

    Why have a life at all if you aren't going to originate anything?

    The carpenters get to originate. A few select get to originate from the top. Their originations are holy and must be worshipped.

    It's um, very abberrated.

    Yet, before my grade zero what did I ever orginate?

    People thought I was deaf and dumb until I was two and a door slammed on my fingers and made me scream.

    Last edited: Jan 4, 2008
  17. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    You are just too damned witty for your shirt!

  18. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    Maybe he's been fucking with us all along then. Seeing how far he could push us. Probably laughing at us from up there. Or down there. Who knows?
  19. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Maybe he just wanted to explain away the "can't haves".

    Having to HAVE...oh dear you must be a total DB!

    But he had to have thousands of people work and live like slaves before "Scientology" could be grounded.

    He had to have messengers.
    He had to have bookstores.
    He had to have telephones and teletypes.
    He had to have missionaires.
    He had to have coursepacks.
    He had to have tapes.
    He had to have staff and lots of them!
    He had to have obedient people.
    He had to have his orders followed.
    He had to have the Guardians Office and the Missions.
    He had to have the ships.
    He had to have the in baskets.
    He had to have the events.
    He had to have the videos.

    He had to have a LOT OF SHIT including LIVE PEOPLE holy devoted to every word that left his finger tips.

    And he had to have ALL that in writing.

    He had to have a lot before he could do.

    What did he do really?

    He wrote.

    And he got people to read.

    He talked.

    And he got people to listen.

    I'm glad he did.

    That doesn't mean I copied his thoughts , I learned the knowledge.

    I didn't believe everything he wrote.


    And here's some people thinking he should not have to have postage money to send out mail and there's this "pts to the middle class" and hungry staff and HUGE CAN'T HAVES being run all over the place, even with the tech.

    Because you either HAVE or you DON'T HAVE.

    If you have issues about HAVING you can only not have on the other end.

    For me, I would rather have than not have.

    And Hubbard was more certain about that than I.

    He could have a hell of a lot better than I ever could.

    It's too simple.

    If you are a "public" and you don't have, you are considered "downstat".

    If you are a public and you DO have you are considered PTS to the middle class so you are fucked up in every way from the viewpoint of the staff.

    If you are on staff and you don't have, you are considered a "saint".

    If you are on staff and you do have you are considered out ethics or other fish to fry or not on the same terms etc etc.

    So, what is the highest level in the game?

    It isn't even about the bridge anymore.

    It's who is in the Sea Org living by a vow of poverty.

    That's been done before by the Catholics.

    Who originated that?

    hmmmmmm? Kind of spooooooooooky!

    Last edited: Jan 4, 2008
  20. everfree

    everfree Patron Meritorious

    Hmm... he may have had MORE stuff but I doubt that he had BETTER. I trust that what you have didn't come from slaves working a hundred hours a week for table scraps? And that you don't have at least two children from which you are totally alienated and a spouse you haven't seen for years...