ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at www.exscn2.net.



Young Sea Org'r returned to his mother..

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Smurf, Aug 22, 2012.

View Users: View Users
  1. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest

    Yeh, because it would be a pretty dicey copyright claim with no other precedent. FB only has rights to use the photo, anyway, not necessarily to keep others from using it. Normally photos belong to the photographer, if he/she has permission to take the photo. In the absence of that, they belong to the person the photo was given to, and then whoever the person gave permission to have the photo (In this case, FB, but FB doesn't have true ownership, just useage permission. However, FB gives permission to pretty much everyone to VIEW the photo.)

    This info comes from an expert I know in this type of law. (But it's even more complicated than that...lol) I'd asked him about this sort of thing previously.
     
  2. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    I never claimed otherwise. If you look at the OP, I simply mentioned he's back living with his mother in Colorado.

    Many saw that as a blessing because the child was out of the Sea Org and back with the parent.
     
  3. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    PR.. it had been established that the mother moved from boyfriend to boyfriend ALOT. That's not a strange occurrence among Scientologists though.. one of Tom Cruise's sisters, I believe Catherine (Cass) is in her 4th marriage.

    Ms. Smythe is listed as a contributor to the San Diego Org along with a gentleman that is not her current fiance, who resides in the Denver area, and has a daughter living with him from a prior marriage. There are photos of his daughter with Jett's mother on his FB page, but no photos of Jett among them.

    Maybe, they considered the financial burden of supporting more than one child was too much.. and given that Jett is a boy.. would have better coping skills in the Sea Org than the daughter. I don't know.
     
  4. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    That's not uncommon anywhere anymore.
     
  5. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Well, at least the San Diego org won't go without, not on Ms. Smythe's watch!

    The why does matter, though, doesn't it - why did she send an eleven-year-old child away to work, and why did she bring him back? And the fact that it was for Scientology's sake, in both cases, and not in the interests of the child, is quite upsetting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  6. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Well, that says enough to me.
     
  7. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    The whole story disturbed many people, Smurf included. The mother was like in a complete state of doubt. Very wishywashy. Doubt about the Sea Org, missing her kid who was in it. But not in doubt about her wins in Scientology. She was a former Sea Org member herself and didn't want to go back. It was all on facebook, reposted to WWP. People's emotions were effected when reading it. Very pathetic situation. You had to know that the mother was messed up to be voicing her personal doubts about the Sea Org on facebook.

    This is why people acted. Some to fast, some not fast enough. In the end, the child was home. IMHO and experienbce, it was better than foster care because she might never get him out of there.

    The mother most certainly was sent to ethics for bringing the whole thing out in the public. Yes, he's got a 4 year LOA but it's better than none.
     
  8. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    The assumption that having the authorities involved would result in foster care is simply that. It is my understanding, at least in Australia, that the courts attempt to keep families together under supervision. I think that's important.

    Put all the facts before a court and let them decide what is in the best interests of the child. I think the only difference is that in 4 years the child will have LESS protection from the law.

    I'm not saying anybody acted with particular ill intentions. I just don't think there's a huge cause for celebration.

    At risk child is at risk.

    On the bright side, Jet is fortunate to have so many people care about his welfare. At this point we can only hope for the best.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
  9. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    The anons involved pressed the issue of the mother being negligent and wanted the child not returned home. Just based upon the little they knew from facebook. They believed they were looking at the best interests of the child but if you speak to most foster care kids who were brought in because of negligence, most would say it was a nightmare in foster care and couldn't wait to get home. Many never got home. red tape is a huge issue.

    In the US, when this happens, when the police take in or remove a child who had been abandoned, the child becomes an immediate ward of the county social services and placed in an emergency foster home DSS looks for nearby relatives while awaiting a court hearing on the matter. The judge decides based upon DSS initial investigation and recommendations. A temporary order is set and the kid is in the system until a full investigation is done. Family are the last to know what is going on, including other kin who had nothing to do with the negligence on the part of the parent.

    In order to be placed with a family member who is not under investigation, that family member must be investigated and pass all the hoops required to get the kid, which can take months.... if not years, if finished at all. Some have to get new jobs so they can be home on weekends. All have to take classes. All have to get approvals on their home, maake modifications ( which can cost a lot of money or which their landlord may disagree with ). I new a woman who would have been perfect for a teen relative who wound up in foster care but they wanted her to put a fence around her large pond, which is used for the animals on her peoperty, which is on a registered historic property, which the town would not allow a fence to be put arouund the pond. Just one example but there are so many.

    Facts on Foster Care in America ( ABC News 2006 --- it's even worse now)
    http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/FosterCare/story?id=2017991&page=1#.UDxDJKCUqCk
    "Each week, nearly 60,000 children in the United States are reported as abused or neglected, with nearly 900,000 confirmed abuse victims in 2004. About 520,000 of those children end up in foster care each year -- double the number 25 years ago. Approximately 800,000 children every year come in contact with the foster care system. "

    "On average, children stay in the system for almost three years (31 months) before either being reunited with their families or adopted. Almost 20 percent wait five years or more. Children have on average three different foster care placements. Frequent moves in and out of the homes of strangers can be profoundly unsettling for children, and it is not uncommon to hear of children who have been in 20 or 30 different homes. Many have been separated not only from their parents, but from their siblings. "

    I say this from my experience with this system, from years of helping kids and working with some of their parents.
     
  10. Moderator 1

    Moderator 1 Guest

  11. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Well, I would have to say that for people like Sharone Stainforth and Astra Woodcraft there was very little difference between being raised in foster care versus Scientologists, however, I know that's not always the case. I do think she was negligent. The child was 11. I don't hold out much hope for his future. She wouldn't go back to the Sea Org herself, but gave permission for a minor child to join? That's so WTF.
     
  12. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    Isn't that the story of many ex-Scilons that left the cult? They surrendered their children to the Sea Org because parents felt it was an honorable thing. Karen de la Carriere & then-husband, Heber Jentzsch, did the same thing, and now their son is dead.

    The practice has all the signs of the Hitler Youth during WWII. Raising young people up in the group mindset & spoon-fed propaganda, so they grow up to be soldiers of the cause.

    You see, nowadays, ALOT of 2nd generation Scientologists in the Sea Org and in staff positions, and they are tough nuts to crack when it comes to asking them to think for themselves, and to search out sources that provide factual info on the cult.

    I had a heart-to-heart with PAC Security Chief Jason True several years ago, and he expressed genuine concern for my eternity, being on the outside of the cult. He was born & raised in the cult and strongly affirms everything that has been spoon fed to him.
     
  13. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    Yes, it's sad.
     
  14. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    I am so confused because two threads are merged lol.

    The FB T&C are around here somewhere. Let me see if I can find my original post now.

     
  15. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest

    What you posted was right. USEAGE rights are not the same as owner rights. FB is given temporary useage rights, that's all. Copyright law is pretty standard throughout the world now, too.
     
  16. Adam7986

    Adam7986 Declared SP

    Indeed that is complicated.
     
  17. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yep, I still go through spasms when folks go through exhortations about how I was absolutely evil to give my son to the SO. Honestly, if I had not completely believed that this was the absolutely best for my son; never would have happened.

    I'm awake now, and luckily have one son out who somehow forgives me and adores me (but, he's also studied almost as much as I have about how cults can even -- actually especially --fuck with people who do have a brain and a conscious).

    Other son... still in. Can't/won't talk-- in SO and disconnected. I love both my kids. Unfortunately, I barely know one of them right now. All I have are memories and the hope we'll be able to speak again one day. My other son and I do talk about him, and it always hurts. He somehow understands that I had seriously fallen into such a brain melt that I was really trying to do what I thought was best.

    Seriously, don't talk to me about what a horrible bitch I was of a mother to let this happen unless you also managed to be totally brainwashed. Because, you'll never probably understand if you are looking at me that way. Don't worry--you could never hate me more than I hated myself for having been a part of all this happening. I'll probably post at some point on the 'shame and guilt' thread... just not ready.

    (this is not in specific response to anyone, just to some of what I've seen about how evil those of us who gave up our kids to the SO, and how we must be the most horrific scum of the earth to be such disgusting parents)
     
  18. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    You are neither a horrible bitch nor a degenerate by any means. You were a victim of the environment at the time, where it was an honorable thing to surrender your children to the Sea Org. You are one of hundreds that have done so over many decades.

    There will always be those toxic twats that have never been in the cult, that have no clue to the dynamics involved, and are quick to judge others on something they know absolutely nothing about - and it shows in their bad behavior. FUCK THEM.

    You are out now, and are feeling the pains of being disconnected from a son. I have 20+ friends that are experiencing the same pain and sense of injustice being waged upon you.

    You need to focus on chatting with those in your support circle, that understand what you are going through, without judgement or condemnation. IGNORE anyone outside this circle. :)
     
  19. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    I think any parent on staff or in the S.O. did things that were not in the best interests of their children. I know I did. Fortunately, though, I was accountable to my family for what I did with my kids. They could and did threaten to take them away at times, even though they risked losing me totally as a result.

    The fact that Scientology knew that not only my mother and sister, but their journalist father was watching, made a huge difference to them not ending up in the Sea Org, and the children's ultimate rejection of that organisation. So I don't think there's anything wrong with a mother having to be accountable to others, such as the authorities, for what she does with her children, within reason. The fact is, as much as they forgive us, we were horrible. One of my daughters still does not talk to me today and the others are bitter.

    There are well-intended people who won't let their kids have blood transfusions to save their lives. In fact there are myriad examples of irrational behaviour that kills and destroys lives.

    The interests of the children should come first and that includes not only a relationship with their parents but limits on what they can do with those kids. That is just my two cents. Believe what you want but act within the law. At least send your kid to school.

    I can't help your guilt any more than you can help mine. Frankly it was evil. That we were brainwashed doesn't make it any less wrong than the parents at Jonestown. It's just a different dimension to the pain, which I understand and am deeply sorry for.
     
  20. clamicide

    clamicide Gold Meritorious Patron

    I think what is so odd, is that I really did have my kids' best interest at heart, but was deluded.

    Yep, I do feel shame and guilt, which I have been working through. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If I couldn't have faced how fucked up it/I was during the time, I might be walking straight into Martyland. Cult-hopping is an extremely well-know phenomenon. It sucks. It's painful, but... damn if I'm going to repeat that stuff again. And as much as I'm willing to 'accept responsibility' for my part in it, I'm sure as hell going to also lay blame on the shoulders of those who created this evil, as I'm also willing to understand that those who helped perpetrate it were also fucked over and not acting in their right minds.