Young woman rescued from Narconon-Michigan tonight!!!

Discussion in 'Narconon, Drug Free World, and Other Anti-drug Fro' started by Smurf, Jul 21, 2012.

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  1. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    It was my understanding that Ashley's mother wanted her to stay in Narconon, and refused to be involved in her leaving. It was the mother of a friend that got her out.

    Tory has not been specific yet on the details.
     
  2. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    I totally get that, Smurf.

    I think that you're combining a few different legal concepts here.

    Ashley is legally an adult. The law gives her the right to leave a drug abuse treatment facility - even a legitimate one, and even if it is a spectacularly bad idea for her to do so. And yes, even if it is a condition of her probation (although if she hadn't checked herself into another facility, she might have had consequences for that, like incarceration).

    Ashley's mother has absolutely ZERO obligation to help her leave a facility. That she wasn't involved in her escape is wholly irrelevant to Ashley's legal autonomy to leave a treatment facility at will.

    Ashley's mother also had ZERO RIGHT to arrange for her to be taken against her will and transported across state lines to Narconon. Again, because Ashley is legally an adult, she is free decide where she receives treatment or even IF she receives treatment. She is free to suffer the consequences of a probation violation if she chooses not to receive treatment.

    Ashley's mother is also free to decide what she does with her money. She can tell Ashley she will pay for any treatment center. She can tell Ashley she will pay for no treatment. She can tell Ashley that she will pay only for Narconon, and to take it or leave it. She can enter into whatever agreement she wants with Ashley (e.g. "I will pay $27k for a month in Narconon. If you leave before the month is up, you owe it to me. If you complete treatment and remain sober for x months, I will waive your obligations with respect to this loan."). It's basic contract law, and adults (under most circumstances) are free to enter into both good and spectacularly bad contracts. But that's between Ashley and her mom.

    Ashley's mom and Narconon also entered into some contract - who knows what the refund policy is there, and who knows how Ashley was a party to the various and sundry contracts - I've heard that the payer sees one version and the patient sees another. I'm not going to attempt to analyze that tangled web. I will only say that it would be interesting to see how the quality of care is represented, particularly since Narconon claims to be a secular treatment facility.

    Again, none of this tangled contractual web should have any bearing on what the rescuers did. Think about the legal implications of this - everyone who agrees to give an adult a ride from point a to point b would be risking lawsuit from their parents if they thought that their adult child was making a bad decision.

    The Co$, of all things, should be wary of arguing any precedent that would allow parents to overrule the decision of their adult children. Think about that....
     
  3. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    I am SPECIFICALLY being non-specific...as until ALL is totally
    settled, I know it is not smart to pitch out ~possible~ details.

    Whether you believe it or not (and Smurf, you KNOW this is true)
    OSA often F***s with things, not necessarily "logically". One of the
    better ways I know is to keep the specifics out of the public
    area, certainly while things are settling in, as they are.

    I have been specific in that a lady who knew Ashley for some
    time called and asked me to help, as Ashley had called her
    and asked to get her out of Narconon. I call her Mrs X and she asked me
    to keep it that way.

    I would appreciate it if you would let this woman
    get to her next destination, without dragging out "possibilities"
    here. Once there, I understand your questioning things. Meantime,
    let's give her a chance, please. :yes:

    Thank you,

    Tory/Magoo
     
  4. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Wait a minute! YOU and the OTHERS NEVER MENTIONED she was on probation. This is the FIRST I HAVE READ OF THIS. ANYWHERE.

    A probation agreement is essentially part of the court order as a court order in strength of legal power. One flows from the order of other.

    IF YOU & OTHERS HAD MENTIONED IT, before she was wisked away, I would have certainly stated that this would have to be dealt with FIRST before she was helped to leave. Her agreement with probation is a legal agreement. Narconon is going to try and 'f' with her about this. They have an influence once a patient is transferred to a facility via probation order or agreement. They can make life miserable for her. The PO is goijg to believe NN before they believe an addict. I hope the family is straightening this out.

    None of those who helped her leave are subject to trouble. Only Ashley is because she is responsible for keeping her agreement probation agreement. The PO could send the case back to court as a VOP Violation of Probation and the court could reinstate her charges or convert her probation time to jail time.

    BUT it looks to me that things are being worked out. I trust Tory and what she is telling us here.

    Now, I have seen this happen before when others have left Narconon despite such Probation agreements and none so far have gone to jail as long as they got into another program ASAP and made sure contact was made to the PO right away with that info.

    But Narconon will lie to the POs about why they left and what they were doing at the facility, making the students look BAD to the PO, creating more to make it look like the student is in violation. This is what Ashley and her family are probably up against. Hopefully all the internet attention and good people who helped her will be able to help get any problems with the PO resolved.

    I wish someone would have first contacted me, Colin or David privately, with all the facts first, to get advise. Knowledge and experience in these things is essential to a smooth transition for the exiting Narconon
    "student". Just my 2 cents. You would not believe the things Narconon has written about escaping students, in vengence for leaving.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  5. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    Sorry Tory, Ashley, Mrs. X and anyone else I offended.

    I've gone back and for over how much to say. Ultimately, I think I've said what I needed to address some of Smurf's opinions that are simply wrong. I think to just leave it it would've been a disservice to anyone who has a friend or loved one who needs to escape a NarCONon facility.

    Bottom line, go ahead and rescue. Rescuers aren't doing anything wrong. Now that I've said it, I'm done
     
  6. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    It will all work out. Let me know if you need any assistance. I'm familiar with the issues.
     
  7. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Ashley was NOT on any probation that I know of.
    Which is why I've said...let's let her and Mrs X who is
    doing the lion share of the work, helping her....get things done that need
    to be done to help Ashley. Again, my thanks and Ashley's forever to
    Mimi-the-great who went and picked her UP and the Police for escorting
    her out. I HOPE LAPD would learn from this police department what
    true service means. :)

    Love to all :rose:

    Tory/Magoo
     
  8. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    Tory, can I ask if the police have done welfare checks on the other clients? If one girl was being held against her will at Narconon-MI and 15 were being held against their will at Arrowhead, does that indicate enough of a systemic problem with Narconon for them to do a welfare check?
     
  9. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Thanks for straightening that out, Tory.
     
  10. MimiTheGreat

    MimiTheGreat New Member

    Ashley and I had many hours to talk along our journey and she's a great girl WILLING to get te help she needs. This was not court ordered or a condition of probation (she is NOT on probation)!

    Well done Tory & Mrs X! True miracle workers :)
     
  11. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Thanks, Mimi! I had asked Mrs X to make sure as Ashley
    tells all the "horrific" things that occurred to write them down, as I
    know re trauma....it can quickly get darkened to a point of no view.
    She is, and that'll help both her and the recording of what DID actually
    happen.

    I'm soooooooooooo happy you were the person who picked her up.
    Your photo tells it all: True joy :) :cheers: :woohoo:

    Love ya girl~! :hug:

    Tory/Magoo
     
  12. MimiTheGreat

    MimiTheGreat New Member

    I adore you Tory! Ashley was humbled by the outpouring in her direction. I do hope she tell her story someday. I wanted to cry listening to what she's been through,she felt as though she had no choice at one point because she knew no one and had no means to even buy a drink.





    It was my pleasure, the perfect storm of tiny miracles! I was incredibly impressed by the police and it was awesome to get real food into her, she couldn't have been more greatful!
     
  13. BigBeard

    BigBeard Patron

    I'd believe it in a heart beat. Considering how all ex's get bad mouthed in general, it'd be standard policy to 'handle' any potential PR flap by making a narCONon escapee sound as bad as possible to anyone who'll listen.
     
  14. BigBeard

    BigBeard Patron

    Thanks for the clarification re:court order/probation.

    And yes, a big VERY WELL DONE! to all involved parties.:happydance:
     
  15. Magoo

    Magoo Gold Meritorious Patron

    Awww---well these are the times that make ALL the rest
    worth it, eh? :bighug:



    I bet! I can't wait to hear her story, too. Mrs X has
    told me some..so I asked her to please jot down notes. She said
    Ashley is, now...which is good for many reasons.

    Hugs to you :hug:

    Tory/Magoo