ESMB has entered archive mode. All posts and threads that were available to the general public are still readable. The board is still searchable. 

Thank you all for your participation and readership over the last 12 years.

If you want to join in the conversation, please join the new ESMB Redux at

Your current perceptions of Psychiatry

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by 3rdman, May 22, 2009.

View Users: View Users
  1. 3rdman

    3rdman Patron

    I am interested in learning your perceptions on psychiatry compared to that of your perceptions (if you had any) while you were still in the cult of Co$. Heck, what of mental health professionals in general (like psychologists, counselors, etc...)?

    :surf: and :anon: are also welcomed to describe their opinions too.

    If you have sources of info (like writings by Gwen Olsen or Sharna Olfman), please provide. :thumbsup:
  2. cantsay

    cantsay Patron Meritorious

    Since being out, I have a new-found respect for them. They actually try to DO something about mental illness, unlike the Church. Scientology says they have the technology to help those who are mentally ill, try to stop anyone else helping them BUT REFUSE THEMSELVES TO HELP ANYONE WITH A MENTAL ILLNESS. What bloody good is that??

    If the ideal of a "Cleared planet" came about, what would happen to the people who currently cant function without medication? I dont like the idea of anyone on medication, but its much nicer that they have a life and be able to enjoy it than end up locked up for life under suicide watch by Scientologists.
  3. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    Hubbard's views on psychiatry were shaped by the antics of a really evil pair of psychiatrists who were very active in propounding the benefits of large doses of shock treatment back in the 1940s and 50s. One was the British William Sargent - he wrote a famous book on subliminal brainwashing in society called The Battle for the Mind - and the other a Canadian fella called Cameron who decided that "enough" shock treatment was that amount of shock treatment which TOTALLY wiped out ALL of a person's memory, personality and knowledge. Surpisingly some people even managed to recover from that amount of shock treatment. Both of these "authorities on the mind" have subsequently been completely discredited, but at the time they were looked upon with awe.

    Hubbard never kept pace with how psychiatry progressed (only slightly) but remained frozen in the view he had of it from the early fifties.

    If one considers how psychiatry was practised in those early post-war years, as exemplified by Sargent and Cameron, then one could regard Hubbard's views on it as being rational, balanced, humane, and far in advance of what the rest of the world was doing.
  4. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    OK thanks for the data Leon but what do YOU now think of the "dreaded psychs?":confused2:

    I currently have no opinion as I've not done any research of my own since leaving scientology.

    But it's on my to-do list when I get some time :D
  5. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    I've read a lot of Scott Peck (R.I.P.) who was a psychiatrist as well as a Christian, and he admits that there are problems with psychiatry as practised in the US at least, chiefly that psychiatrists by and large will not acknowledge people's spiritual experiences. Psychiatry is very secular and dismissive of spirituality.

    If Scientology's criticisms of psychiatry were honest and well-intentioned they'd not only be looking at the administration of "psych drugs" but also at the non-physical, non-biochemical interventions that psychiatrists and clinical psychologists undertake, such as CBT. That they don't suggests to me that they seek to undermine and destroy the subject (as a rival?) rather than to reform it.

    Perhaps the best way to settle this is to ask a Scientologist, "Would you accept a reformed psychiatric profession?" Then watch them dissemble.
    Last edited: May 22, 2009
  6. frogger

    frogger Patron

    I tock a psychiatry class at a community college after leaving scientology. Mostly to see what was so bad about it. In all honesty I found them to be very similar, at least from a "counceling" point of view.
  7. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    "Goddamn the pusher man" - Guess Who
  8. The Clam

    The Clam Patron with Honors

    When I was young mom worked in mental institution so I got to see first hand what really goes on behind the walls of these institutions. For most it consisted of drugs , electro shock therapy, unneeded brain operation ( observed from a operating theater) and their results. There was very little one on one therapy.This was long before getting into scn. If one movie puts it into perspective its " One Flew over the Coco nest" which is a glossy version of what really goes on. That was many years ago. Then the courts closed many of the facilities around the country and the hospitals just dumped the patient on to the streets because there was no more government money available for the hospitals. Today this all goes on but is less prevalent then it once was.
    Now a days most pychs prescribe medication, anti depressants, to their patients like its candy. Most Psych just push meds. They even help the drug cartel come up with mental illnesses so that they can created new meds. I have help a few people get off psych drugs using vitamins yes just vitamins. If you can find an older copy of Blacks Medical Dictionary and look up vitamin deficiency. I have never found a patient treated by a psych that had been tested for vitamin deficiency let alone vitamin therapy. LRH assessment of Psychiatry was right on the money. The psychs are nothing but tools for the drug cartels. So if psychiatry is so wonderful have yourself committed for a few weeks and make sure to write down all your wins.
  9. DCAnon

    DCAnon Silver Meritorious Patron

    Psychiatry and medication saved the life of two of my best friends. One had bi-polar disorder and would alternative between depression to the point that she was suicidal, and manic states where she was out of control. It took a while to find what was right for her, but a combination of medication and therapy gave her a life again. She was able to travel to France, finish college at the top of our class, go on to earn her Masters degree, and get married to a pretty fantastical guy.

    My best friend in high school suffered from a pretty debilitating anxiety disorder that kept her from going to college, getting a job, or driving. There were six months where it was so terrible, she couldn't even leave her bedroom. It got to the point where she was suicidal. When she finally went to see a doctor, she was given anti-anxiety medication and therapy. Now with this help, she's been able to keep her anxiety under control, stop taking medication under the guidance of her doctor, and go on to be a happy, successful person.

    Another close friend of mine in college had severe bi-polar disorder and swung between suicide attempts and manic episodes where she'd be raped because she was unable to communicate "NO". She was committed twice. Her parents refused to have her see a doctor or take medication because they didn't want to admit she had a problem. Medication and regular therapy sessions saved her life. She finished college, went on to get her masters, has a fiance, and has become a rabbi focused on helping parents and teenagers in her local Jewish community struggling with mental illnesses.

    There is no branch of medicine that's 100% perfect or 100% effective. All doctors in all branches of medicine make mistakes, over prescribe medications (hello anti-biotic resistant superbugs), and have corrupt, inept people who should be fired or arrested. All branches of medicine have a scary history, like leeches and demon possession and terrifying early "surgeries" if you could call them that. All branches of medicine need to be designed specifically to the needs of the patient. Not all medications work for everyone, not all therapies have the same effect on people, not all surgeries can be done safely with everyone. It's a trial and error system to tweak treatment until it fits the specific needs of the patient. All branches of medicine have improved with time and with new discoveries in science to heal more people, fight more illnesses, and help people live longer healthier lives.

    Are there problems in all branches of medicine that need to be addressed and fixed? You bet ya! Do these problems make medical treatment wrong or evil? Hell no!

    Psychiatry saves lives and I know a few of those lives personally.
  10. Whitedove

    Whitedove Patron Meritorious

    Lets not kid ourselves. Many people are on psych drugs and they dont need them. We all know the link between pharmaceutical companies and psychiatry but to generalize and say its all bad shows that scientology endoctrination about psychiatry is still pretty much in our minds.

    Some people do need treatment. Some for awhile some for life. I will not tell my story as I have said it more than once but medication helped me go through a really really rough patch. Was it the best solution? Frankly, I cant answer that but I didnt have any other alternatives than. I had responsabilities, had to work in spite of my disorder. I was checked for my thyroide gland (which is one thing that can cause either depression (hypo) or anxiety (hyper) and it was normal. I had many tests done before seeing a psych. They couldnt find nothing physically wrong with me. NOne that was physically ill related.

    After 7 years, I am better. Not completely cured. Dont think I'll ever be but better and am off the AD now. still an occasional anti anxiety when it gets too much out of control and nothing will work.

    Let me say this. Its losing control. You have no more control. Its hard for someone who have never experienced a disorder to get it. Most of you think its not true or there is a way and you can have control. You know the line someone will give like ' snap out of it' or 'get a hold of yourself'. It does not work cause it is not your average and normal anxiety or mental distress someone can have for a moment and than be back to normal.
    Its like there is a big red button that has beenpushed down and is stuck there.

    I never ever tought I would find myself on this side of the spectrum. LIke most of you just mentioning the word psych or psych meds got me going till I was in the shoes I am now.

    Of course I dont wish that to no one here (ok maybe Miscavage :D )

    Why is it so hard for scientologists to accept people that are different?
    That do have a mental or emotional disorder and look at them as if they had the plague? We are not worst than or less than the normal person. Just different. I hold a job and a stressful and demanding one for 7 years. I raised my children despite my ordeal. It took alot of my energy to carry on but I did. Its easy to go on with your life when there is nothing wrong with you. You attention is on your goals, the life around you, your friends, family etc... but when you are different that disorder takes alot of your time and energy still you have to carry on. I actually have alot of respect for people that struggle with mental and emotional disorder yet carry on and are productive member of society and are still there for those around them.

    thats my long 2 cents :)
  11. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    An in just about any other field. You have those that want to help and do. And you have those that don't want to help and make a bad name for the field.

    While I feel Psychiatry is somewhat misguided, there is a place for it in this world.

    Imagine what Scientology would do if they were granted control of all the insain institutions. :nervous:
  12. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    A lot of the problems with psychiatry boil down to a simple scarcity of resources. My cousin is a psychiatrist and he told me that in his opinion every patient who gets referred to him with depression could do with counselling, but there just aren't the trained people to offer it.

    So pills it is (and CBT for some).
  13. FinallyFree

    FinallyFree Gold Meritorious Patron

    I, as a last resort, desperate attempt to get help – fought everything I was raised to believe about phychs and starting seeing a therapist. After two tests I was diagnosed with severe depression and acute anxiety disorder. There were suggestions of medications that could help with the therapy I was receiving. I have a holistic doctor for my general practitioner who I have also know for over 15 years, who isn’t afraid to prescribe the appropriate medication if that is what is needed, but also believe in natural healing methods as well as the use of herbs and vitamins. I used him as a person I could trust as to what I should and shouldn’t take. He was also my prescribing doctor of these meds (you know incase I didn’t actually want to become an illegal pc). He agreed with the therapist on meds to use, but disagreed with adding other meds to take with my existing prescriptions. My general practitioner does not agree with combining meds at all and also strongly feels that the goal is to get better so that you are able to get back OFF the meds. So I felt I had someone in the medical profession who was not a scilon who could ‘watch over me’ to make sure ‘nothing happened to me’.

    Three therapists later, and three prescriptions later I am happier than I have ever been in all of my life. Whitedove nailed it for me – it is about loosing control. And I was completely unaware of the fact that I had lost control. And I never really understood that until I started getting on the other side of my depression and anxiety. I needed to find the right therapist and the right prescription for me. And I have. What a difference it has made in my life. I have my life back! :happydance:

    The family I have that are still “in” have no idea that I have been in therapy for years or on meds for several months – but they NOTICE the change in me. Someday I will have to tell them what worked for me. And won’t they be shocked! :omg:

    My viewpoint now is: every group can have a “bad guy” in it. Look at the news; you can see it for yourself. Dirty: cops, bankers, evil day care owners, Boy Scout leaders, Politian’s, Priests - you name it there is a bad person there. Hell Bundy was a lawyer! So why is scientology so against the phych’s? Well wouldn’t the people that could fix the mind control, brainwashing, etc be a natural enemy to scn? And if there is a “bad” therapist out there – I wonder if there is another scilon who is just as bad. :coolwink:
  14. justaguy

    justaguy Patron Meritorious

    I go to a psychiatrist, and I take psych-meds

    First off, with psychiatrists, as with any member of any profession, there are good ones and bad ones. I went to a bad one, now I go to a good one. The bad one was not so good with the medication (though she was a great therapist). The good one is very good with the medicatin.

    With my current psych, we've been experimenting with medication for a long time now. What she'll do is slowly ease me onto to something, start at the lowest dosage, and have me come back frequently to check for side effects. (the bad one did that too). As things have progressed and the psych has learned more about my case, she's gotten better and better at tailoring the meds. I've let her know that I don't particularly like being on meds but I'll do it if it helps, so she keeps that in mind and we get me off them as soon as possible.

    Some of you might have read that recently some really good stuff has been happening to me lately, and I'm finally waking up from my mental illness. What I didn't mention in that thread is that it would have been impossible without the psychiatrist. She gave me a medicine that, for lack of a better word, gave me the chance to wake me up. With the space that medicine gave me, I was able to work out a whole bunch of my issues.

    And now I don't need the pill so much anymore because I've made major changes to my life. My psych is utterly adamant that my meds can only bring my symptoms down to a level where I can deal with the underlying problems. And that's what happened. Eventually I plan to be off meds completely and my psych is completely on board with that, even though it means she's going to lose my business.
  15. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron

    Read my thread about my counseling appointments. That will give you an idea of how I feel about them. And I could never agree, while in, that counselors were bad. I had had some really awesome counselors before getting into Scn. One truly saved my life on two occasions.
  16. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    It's a branch of medicine, like the others, not completely understood or "perfected". The practitioners for the most part mean well and have a much better understanding of the mechanics of the human body as well as the relationships between those mechanics & behavior than do non-professionals. Their knowledge is "spotty" at best and heavily influenced by the available treatment options.

    My view on this has not changed substantially from my time "in" beyond a greater willingness having developed later in life to accepting personal assistance from psychiatric professionals. Any prior reticence was due from familial prejudice, not those of scientology.

    Mark A. Baker
  17. Every time I drive but a medical facility such as a hospital it seems the patient care portions remain the same size however the administrative buildings keep getting larger and larger. At the rate it's going Hospitals will soon be office buildings that provide financial services for the doctors you call on an 800 line in India.
  18. Whitedove

    Whitedove Patron Meritorious

    That is wonderful FinallyFree :happydance: :

    I am so happy for you. Just take the time to be completely well and have certainty about it all before telling your family. Just my 2cents.
    Personal experience. While I have some of them that totally support me, the others still just dont get it. And I'm losing my saliva and time trying to explain. Plus, it drains my self-esteem and confidence in what I know I have and what I need to get better.
    And believe me, it can actually slow your healing process.
    You dont have to say anything. YOu know how you feel and that you are better. That is what matter.

    You know, today I went to see a doctor as the one I had sucked big time. I asked for what is called Buspar which is not an AD, not a benzo and is specially for GAD (which is what I have). Well, both doctors WONT give it to me. I dont get it. I have read abut it. I informed myself alot about the meds and the disorders (not just mine).
    But the doctor today prescribed me Seroquel!!!!!!!!!!!!:omg: :duh:
    Now for those who dont know what that is it is a medication prescribed for psychoses, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. I have GAD (generalized anxiety disorder). I didntknow thats what it was until I get home and checked on the net. I was sooo upset and pissed! :omg: :angry: :grouch:
    I am going to find a doctor that WILL listen to me. I know my body. I know how I feel.
    Reason for the seroquel by the way is that it is suppose to help with anxiety. hell yeah. It makes you completely emotionless plus its a dangerous drug.

    Just to say that I have not blindly turned to psychiatry and just do as they say. I read and inform myself.

    I am going to find a doctor that will let me try Buspar. BTW I have improved. 7 years ago I was a wreck. Now, I'm not totally back in control, but most time I am which is a wonderful feeling :yes:
    As an example, its like if I had both my legs broken and had to use a wheelchair. Now I am using a cane :coolwink: :D
  19. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    You want my views on psychiatry now? Here they are.

    I thyink it is a science in its infancy, fumbling along haphazardly. It will continue to do so for as long they continue to deny the inherently spiritual nature of what they are dealing with. Maybe they will make progress after that.

    There was a G.O. person in South Africa who used to boast of how we in the orgs could deal with insanity much better than the psychs could - but when one of our tech staff challenged them yo take on just ONE insane person and show him/her being rehabilitated with Scientology the G.O. lady just withered away. The fact is that no matter how bad their tech is one must acknowledge that they are the only people around who are willing to take on the problem of insanity and do what little can be done with these people. I know I'm not.

    I had a friend in Johannesburg who was getting more and more hyperactive and eventually tipped over the edge. No one in his family was willing to confront him on the damage he was doing to them (I won't go into details here), so eventually I told him to his face that he can't carry on like this, he was going bozo and the family can't take it any longer. He quietened down a bit, came with me in the car and I booked him into a private loony bin for business execs. There he was gotten to sleep for a week or so and after a while, with medications, got back into his normal job. I am grateful to those psychs for what they did. I knew that even with all the tech I had I could not deal with the guy.

    Here in New Zealand I knew a psychiatrist as a friend - my neighbour at one time - and she was into the shock treatment business full time. She reckoned it was just the best thing.

    In many countries, NZ included, psychiatrists have extra-ordinary powers under law. They can declare a person ibnsane, have him locked up, give him whatever shock or other treatment they desire and even go so far as kill the guy. When that happens just a few signatures on paper would make it all OK. Any protest by the guy (before death) is viewed as just more evidence of his insanity.

    I find this bizarre - they claim to be the only professionals in the field, no one can counter their diagnoses, they are beyond criticism or oversight and they get away with whatever happens.

    This is not OK.
  20. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    Long, and worth listening to. :goodposting: