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Your experiences at the examiner.

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Iknowtoomuch, Dec 27, 2008.

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  1. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    I'm very curious about your experiences at the examine. Funny, silly, sad whatever.

    I had just completed one of the EPF courses and felt nuetral about it. But felt a success story would be way over the top.
    I sat down at the examiner and got the F/N. I was then of course asked if I wanted to write a success story..."Ah, no thanks". Instant reaction. "You don't?!"
    It was at this time that I found out not writing one isn't an option.
    I quickly said actually yes I do. Not wanting to have to retread it or whatever might happen.
    I then made up a few things I got out of it and made it look good.

    But WTF!!?? I had an F/N right!
  2. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    Self determination in Scientology is not an option. One has to conform to what is expected.
  3. HappyGirl

    HappyGirl Gold Meritorious Patron

    It was fine before GAT (or I just don't remember), but after GAT I had extreme examiner anxiety. All I did was red tag. The examiners had anxiety too. They were doing those exams under constant watch and it became a very oppressive environment in which to do exams. I finally learned to just allow myself to feel as throughly ARC broken as I was, smile, and my ARC break fn would fool them. :D
  4. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Heehee I thought that was my secret!
  5. bobthesp

    bobthesp Patron with Honors

    OMG! arcx fn! What's that?

    So, if you're thoroughly arcx it shows up as an fn?

    That would explain a lot, like why I would fn when I was totally shut down, through, done, fed up, caput, etc.

    Tell me more about this please.
  6. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    I had one examiner right after session who told me he didn't like my shirt. There's an f/n killer.
  7. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    An ARC break needle is (or looks like) an F/N. The only way an auditor can tell the difference is by other indicators (like, for example, the PC is obviously sad).

    This is documented in HCOBs.
  8. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    This is a funny thread ... I have written my share of absolute TRIPE at the examiner ... just to get the hell out the door and back into a pleasant environment where I could actually relax and be myself!!!.


    Glad I can laugh now ...

    ... though I would like the opportunity to re-visit that scenario and say to the examiner 'No, I would NOT like to write a phony pillocky success story ... it was a really BORING/CRAP session ... but thank-you for asking' .... and then stalk off home smirking to myself.

    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
  9. byte301

    byte301 Crusader

    Most of my f/n's must have been ARC break f/n's then. I was usually pissed off by the time I got to the examiner but I'd have an f/n!

  10. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    The whole f/n thing when you think about it is one of the stupidest things in scn. Who knows how many staff members have gone through hell because their needle didn't "float". I went through my share as a public even though I almost always f/ned at the examiner. Now I don't have to worry about it because I'll never do that bullshit again thank God.
  11. Lesolee (Sith Lord)

    Lesolee (Sith Lord) Patron Meritorious

    This thread is really hard for me to read and not be moved by it. It is so sad. :bigcry:

    The C/S never sees the pc, by policy. The only cross-check the C/S has on how your case is running is the examiner. The auditor may say the session was great as a PR exercise, but then the examiner (qual) checks that statement for the C/S. If the pc says it was a crap session, then the auditor made a false report. :grouch:

    If the session was crap, and the auditor false-reports it so as not to get sent to cramming, and the pc false-reports it so as not to get a review … well everybody loses and probably both the pc and the auditor will eventually blow “because it doesn’t work”. :grouch:

    Hey I’m not saying I NEVER over-emphasised the good bits of an ethics action; I did. :whistling: But consistently failing to tell the examiner anything was wrong is just doing yourself in. Yes you can get into trouble for complaining about your auditor, depending on the quality of the C/S and the D of P. But carrying on with an auditor you don’t like is going backwards, FAST.

    Sure it is part of the examiner’s hat to see if you are mocking up your indicators. But you have to take some responsibility too. It comes down to personal integrity. Are you willing to say how things are and take the consequences? That’s pretty difficult when review costs $xxx/hour. Who said personal integrity was easy! And just remember, I am NOT saying I am perfect in this respect (or any other respect for that matter). Personal integrity isn’t something you have or don’t have; it’s how much you have. I could certainly do with some more … :eyeroll:

    PS: the examiner, by policy, is not allowed to originate communication to the pc, other than inviting them to sit down and pick up the cans (typically by a hand gesture).
  12. Thrak

    Thrak Gold Meritorious Patron

    So you're saying there is some sort of purpose to this little charade? All it does is make everybody lie. The auditor lies, the PC lies, the c/s lies. Everybody says what they need to say just to keep the train moving cause something bad happens if it stops. I think it was Alan who talked about when this whole thing was added and it was a major blow to any good that was ever in the tech. It's all about making the org not responsible for results.
  13. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Hopefully you'll get a long-term examiner's viewpoint written up here too. Not from me. I've probably given a couple of dozen exams in all, none on video. I used to HATE doing exams, I really did. Why? Because usually I didn't see an F/N, even if the pc looked OK - even good indicators - and not desperate. And this was before GAT. And the staff were often ASI staff getting exams at 11 pm after the regular examiner had gone home and the pc was cruising around looking for a substitute. All the tech guys had been properly high-crimed (checked out and drilled) on doing exams - it's not hard to learn the procedure.

    The references didn't explicitly say this but it would be vital to warm the cans up first otherwise the needle would just fall for a bit while they were warming up. I would wrench them around in my hands and warm them by friction. The proper exam station (SH or ITO) would either have a proper electrically-warmed heating pad or the examiner would keep the cans under his (clothed) armpits to keep them warm.

    But usually I would just see a smoothly falling needle with OK to good indicators and a silent pc when I looked up for any origination.

    If you do the proper exam procedure on those, i.e. you should see an F/N if there is one but there isn't, you then ack the pc, don't indicate the F/N because there wasn't one, and gesture the pc out. Then all hell breaks loose! The pc may start bitching about the lack of an F/N knowing that the review is annoying and/or expensive. The tech guys know it's a hassle. I've received crams as examiner from the auditor because "I missed the F/N", even though I was looking at the meter at that moment in time and no-one else was.

    I admit I've called more than one of those smooth falls with OK indicators an F/N just to avoid the inevitable hassle in the CofS (but not outside). And that does not improve one's self-esteem one iota. :)

  14. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Is it?

    er ... true.

  15. tgack

    tgack Patron

    Floating Needles?

    This one I just have to comment, because ...

    For a long time I had the post as examiner in my Org, and I really had a very rough time on that post, because ...

    I hardly never ever saw ANY floating needles! :whistling:

    YES, I am NOT lying! :whistling:

    I have often wondered ever since, what other examiners have experienced, because I know that I just can't be the only one who can tell this.

    I was posted as examiner, because I failed on my previous post. I suffered from severe headaches after a traffic-accident where I had a brain-concussion. I was not treated properly for that brain-concussion and so I did not do well on post. This was ( of course ) interpreted as "out-ethics/case on post", and I was assigned low condition and demoted.

    So after having done the ethics "handling" I was posted as examiner, and ...

    Well, I was not auditor-trained, and my only metering-experience was from word-clearing. That was my prerequisites for being the quality-control for the org.:whistling:

    Seen in retrospect, the post of examiner was actually in fact a trash bin for failed staff members who had proved to be incompetent on other posts, and that was my lot actually for quite a long time.

    From the beginning I hated it, because everytime a pc came in and took the cans, I just saw a falling needle, and that was it.

    But from looking through the examiner-log I knew that almost 100 % of all exams were logged as F/Ns, by my fellow-examiners.

    So, what did I do?

    I concluded, that the reason why I never saw any F/Ns just had to be MY fault, and that it just HAD to have SOMETHING to do with ME. Probably it was because I had "case on post" ( the ethics "handling" didn't cure my head-aches ), so maybe my own Bad Indicators had a negative effect on the pc's, so they never F/Ned because I looked like shit :whistling:

    I did what I could to remedy my non-F/Ning appearance, but it didn't help, and among the auditors and C/S there was an understanding, that this examiner was nothing but a joke. I remember I once saw one auditors comment in a pc-folder, saying "pc is very happy", whereto the C/S replied "Yes, what a lousy examiner". That was how they reacted if they didn't agree with my exams :whistling:

    And this C/S was actually considered to be some kind of god in the org. He had been on Apollo and worked with LRH, so ... Whatever this C/S said, he was right ! Period ! And if I ever had ANY disagreement with ANYONE about ANYTHING, I was wrong ! Period !

    So ...

    I made some arithmetic :

    To avoid further trouble I just had to see, that almost 100 % of my exams were reported as F/Ns, just like it was with the other examiners :innocent: And gradually I found out a way to "communicate" unwritten messages to the C/S of how my estimate of the pc was.

    There were various degrees of F/Ns ( small, normal wide etc. ), and the pc indicators were also categorised in various degrees ( OK, GIs, VGIs, VVGIs etc. ), and after some time there was an unspoken understanding among all auditors and the C/S, that if I reported an "F/Nsmall OK", it was to be considered as close to a RED TAG as it possibly could.

    And then of course, if the pc spitted at me, and threatened to kill me, it was reported as " no F/N, Bad Indicators " :shithitfan:

    The C/Ss wife had an auditing-room just beside the exam-room, and when the door was open I could hear everything they talked about in that room. I remember one time, when she took her pc to exam after a session, and as usual I pretended to look at the meter as if I was examining something very professionally, whereafter I indicated to her: "Your needle is floating". I filled out the exam-report, and then I could hear the pc ask her auditor: "How come that I had an F/N at the examiner, when I didn't when we ended the session." Apparently the auditor had decided for some reason to stop the session without an F/N, well aware that the result would be a RED TAG. Quite embarrassing for me I would say, and I heard the auditor explaining her pc some shore-story/plausible truth like " well my husband have really been trying to do something about the incompetence in that department, but until now with no success. But it will be handled! " The auditor made the session-report and took the folder personally to the C/S ( her husband ), and I could hear them talking for a short time, whereafter the auditor returned and the session was started again. The next time THIS pc came, I really did my very best, not to do the same embarrassing mistake again, but I really did not know what to do, because as usual I did not see an F/N. Well, the chances was 50/50, so I just called it an "F/Nsmall OK" ( as close to a RED TAG as possible per the unspoken understanding above ). The pc looked at me with a very suspicious expression in her face, and I had absolutely no doubts as to her opinion about my credibility.

    But the next time I saw this auditor, she just smiled to me, telling me without words that everything was just fine, no problem at all :whistling: , and nobody ever complained. Everybody was very satisfied with the way I did my job, and I was never corrected, so ...:whistling: And by the way today the above mentioned auditor is the Senior C/S at Gold Int ....

    My "career" as examiner actually lasted some years, and gradually I was considered to be some kind of "Authority" on that post. And somehow I actually had a good time. I was a good "people pleaser" and everybody liked me, because I just did what everybody expected me to do. Of course I knew for myself, that it was all pure B/S, and I feared the day when someone would order me to write O/Ws, but ...

    All things have an end, and so did my "career" as examiner. One day me and four other "veteran staffs" were transferred to the Tech Training Corps for auditor-training, and another guy was assigned to the post as examiner.

    This guy was the direct opposite of me, because he was a pedantic perfectionist, and he did not in any way compromise with his opinion of what he saw on the meter. He was auditor-trained, but was not posted as auditor for some various reasons :whistling:

    And this poor guy really had a rough time, because suddenly the F/N at exam % dropped catastrophically, and everybody was just VERY annoyed with this guy. He was send to cramming again and again almost endlessly, and the HGC was in almost constant chaos. Some auditors began to do the exams for each others instead of sending their pcs to this examiner, and sometimes the DofP even did the exams. And nobody objected to that!

    One day the Qual Sec asked me to do a thorough Hat-Turn-Over to this new examiner, because he was just a "disaster", and I had no choice but doing what I was asked to do.

    So, I started.

    The guy was a Class IV, so he knew very well what an F/N was supposed to look like, that was not the problem. So instead I started :

    "Well, listen very carefully, because what I am going to tell you now, is not written anywhere, so actually it's VERBAL TECH, so be VERY careful. This is a minefield. The problem is, that when the pc comes into the exam-room and take up the cans, the cans are cold, and therefore it can sometimes be very difficult to see if there is an F/N. Instead You will usually see a falling needle, but with some experience you will learn to "see the F/N through the falling needle, because the speed of the fall is varying". The guy listened to me and seemed to accept that this was probably the reason he had problems on the post.

    Soon after this guy actually invented a system with a light-bulp to keep the cans warm, and after some time he was very proud to tell me that he no longer had problems with the exams. I just nodded and thought to myself "I'll be damned". I tried to do some exams after that, with the "light-bulp warmed cans", and I really couldn't see any difference from before. And to this day I still believe that the guy just learned to be a "People Pleaser" just as I was myself.

    Of course, today I just think that it was all Bull Shit and Horse Manure, but that's another story.:whistling:

    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
  16. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Hah! Thank you very much, TGack. Any other ex-examiners around? At the time I wondered too about the after-session 99+% F/N VGIs stat. I didn't do all those exams too late at night, and I knew the mere sight of me wasn't going to cave people in. But the obvious result of thinking through my own experience: that either I was blind or didn't know an F/N (obviously not true, at least it was obvious to me) or everyone else was LYING was too uncomfortable a thought to have for long. I probably settled for "the experience of having to find a substitute for the regular examiner in the exam booth was unsettling and killed the F/N."

  17. Lesolee (Sith Lord)

    Lesolee (Sith Lord) Patron Meritorious

    True Confessions Continue

    Actually I did an exam once, and once only. What a disaster! :omg:

    I was a Class IV at the time (as I recall). It was late at night. The examiner had gone home. I was the last auditor in the org, apart from the Class VI who just came out of session with his pc. He convinced me to do an exam on his pc. We both knew I hadn’t been high-crimed on it, although I had read the one page HCOB on it previously. :duh:

    So I reluctantly agreed that it was less bad for me to do the exam than for the Class VI to do it himself. There I am trying to get to the examiner’s desk, and the pc, who I knew, is going …
    “Oh hello. I didn’t know you had joined staff.” :omg:
    Now I know that I am not allowed to chatter unnecessarily to the pc, so I am desperately trying to shut this guy up, whilst still trying to get behind the e-meter, and maintain ARC.
    “Oh, I haven’t joined staff. I’m just helping out.” or words to that effect.
    As I recall the needle moved a little, back and forth, initially as I was getting settled into the role, but by the time I looked up to get the pc statement it wasn’t. It was just clean. FUCK! :duh: Now what. :confused2: The pc had GIs at best, by any normal standards. But I happened to know this guy, and he was not a smiley happy sort of person, and indicators are based to some degree on what the person is like in normal life.

    So whether this initial needle action was a fall that recovered or an F/N that didn’t last very long because I was waiting for the meter to play Dixie, I wouldn’t like to say. :confused2:

    Then the pc asks me if the needle is floating, curious as to why I didn’t indicate it. SHUT THE FUCK UP AND STOP STRESSING ME! … I thought silently to myself.

    I think I said something like “I’m sorry, everything is fine. It F/Ned”. I’ve never done anything like that before or after. Horrible. It’s effectively saying “Your needle WAS floating.” Horrible. Horrible. The examiner’s report read F/N VGIs of course, without an attached KR on myself, by myself, indicating I was Suppressive for having done an exam on a paying public without having had my high-crime checkouts.

    The whole setup was poor. The pc had to come down two flights of stairs from the HGC then go up two flights of stairs to Qual. Inevitably the pc would be out of breath when arriving at the examiner. The cans were warmed with some device, which is absolutely essential. Nevertheless, I am sure F/Ns were reported at exams that shouldn’t have been. It’s true that F/N ratio at exams is a key stat. It’s a pity that so much pressure is applied to the examiner.

    I used to know a staff guy who did exams a lot. He had the same problem of should he call the F/N that wasn’t strictly (or even not strictly) there. Giving the auditor and pc the “benefit of the doubt” due to the adverse conditions.
  18. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Examiners aren't supposed to do that, though. Someone wasn't wearing his or her hat. However, I know that a lot of things go on in the cult that shouldn't. That's much of what is discussed here.
  19. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation


    Is there any wonder party games are not played in orgs at Christmas?

    Why would they be when everyone is playing them all year round (and often in funny sailor suits).

    Anyone for charades??

    It would be funny if it wasn't such an expensive game of charades ... (and not just financially) ...


    PS I appreciate the honesty ... but its all a bit 'Fawlty Towers' isn't it?

    Last edited: Dec 28, 2008
  20. Rmack

    Rmack Van Allen Belt Sunbather