Stabbing @ Scio Sydney - 12/2/2019 9:42 PM Central Time USA

[Fred Basset]

It's odd that the person against Scientology is the teenager. Usually it is the other way round.
Can't really imagine how that dynamic works.
The usual pattern of the parent being anti and the teenager being keen on Scientology is a lot simpler to understand.

Maybe that's a sign of these modern times.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Perhaps, but I don't think so.

Sure it is tragic. But as one who has been on the receiving end of this kind of action from the Cult...the dead man was out of lines IMO. He should have never been involved in this at all.... The Cult is at fault here in a major way, IMO for putting him in the position for this to have happened to him. I am pretty sure he never signed up for this sort of job or duty....and if he did....if the man that got stabbed was a "Cult Enforcer" then he should have known that his job could back-fire on him at any time...

Sorry, but I have little feelings for anyone that acts as Cult Enforcer.

Most of us would have done it though, if asked (escort someone off the premises). It could have been my son or yours that died that day, we know nothing about the man, how long he was in or whether he was about to leave (bla bla bla). He has been virtually ignored and that surprises me a bit.

We all know it's a completely disgusting cult that breaks up family's and only ever acts for the benefit of the cult coffers ... nothing new there, but to seriously expect the Police or even reporters (who know what the cult is like) to virtually blame the victim and pretty much defend the murderer is ridiculous, it won't happen. They (rightly) are only interested in the facts ... Bryan Seymour has done some amazing opinion pieces based on fact and I love him for that but this is very different.

@scooter was brilliant (Paul Schofield) ... he managed to say what really needed to be said in the few seconds he was given ie "the cult will be scrambling to spin this so the least amount of 'stink' is attached to them" (or something very close to that). The cult must cringe every single time that amazing man opens his mouth.

 

[Leland]

Certainly, but having been in the Cult myself for 27 years....I have to assume that the Cult looks upon the murdered man as just a "meat body."

That the Cult is reportedly calling him a "beloved member" is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard!

Certainly he has been ignored! The Cult doesn't give out much of any information about anything. It is entirely a closed system.

No, I certainly would not have "escorted" anyone out of Cult premises ....if asked to do so. ( at least I think so...)

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Certainly, but having been in the Cult myself for 27 years....I have to assume that the Cult looks upon the murdered man as just a "meat body."

That the Cult is reportedly calling him a "beloved member" is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard!

Certainly he has been ignored! The Cult doesn't give out much of any information about anything. It is entirely a closed system.

No, I certainly would not have "escorted" anyone out of Cult premises ....if asked to do so. ( at least I think so...)

Of course the cult look upon the victim as a 'meat body' ... that was never in any doubt (but I wasn't referring to them) and of course the 'beloved member' thing is a load of old PR twaddle but that's 100% standard cult PR as well.

Why are you so surprised at the way this is all being played out?

 

[Leland]

Its not that I'm surprised....

It is that since this is an ACTIVE situation, I'd like to point out the Cult's Spin....as it is happening

And try to point out alternative directions that anyone reading this thread can look into.

I do think that some non-cult are looking at this thread...as in Cult OSA.

The News reports that the Cult is saying this:



When in actual fact they are already actively doing this:



If this Cult Enforcer is tampering with a potential Witness to a Murder Investigation....then he is committing a crime...at the behest of the Church of Scientology. A very serious Crime.

 

[Leland]

Here is the same Cult Enforcer stepping in front of and blocking a News Reporter......OUTSIDE the gates of the Sydney Cult Facility. This action can be seen in a video posted above. He is using his body and bulk to block a News Reporter. This could be looked at as an Assault. It is TYPICAL and STANDARD Cult activity.

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

It's odd that the person against Scientology is the teenager. Usually it is the other way round.
Can't really imagine how that dynamic works.
The usual pattern of the parent being anti and the teenager being keen on Scientology is a lot simpler to understand.

Maybe that's a sign of these modern times.

Yes. It was typically the adults who smelled a rat even though they didn't know what was going on and their kids who are all caught up in the cultural woo of the moment but now the kids are all clued into the internet and the culty parents are self-censoring and clueless.

But this is Asia and I think the modus operandi here is to fly under the radar in a culture where there is very little general public awareness of Scientology. It's a devious but apparently effective strategy. I expect the number of Scientologists in Asia is so small relative to the population that it gets very little press and I doubt many of the good books like A Piece of Blue Sky are translated into the various languages. Might be an opportunity there.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Its not that I'm surprised....

It is that since this is an ACTIVE situation, I'd like to point out the Cult's Spin....as it is happening

And try to point out alternative directions that anyone reading this thread can look into.

I do think that some non-cult are looking at this thread...as in Cult OSA.

The News reports that the Cult is saying this:

View attachment 14869

When in actual fact they are already actively doing this:

View attachment 14870

If this Cult Enforcer is tampering with a potential Witness to a Murder Investigation....then he is committing a crime...at the behest of the Church of Scientology. A very serious Crime.

None of which would be new (if that is what he was doing).

The cult is in damage control and that bloke above will have been pulled in by the OSA goons and told to STFU very fast, meanwhile he is doing what any hired 'security guard' does ... telling reporters to get lost and attempting to look scary, this is his 15 minutes of fame and he probably wants full value from it. The only thing that surprises me is that the cult still hire such nasty looking, scruffy lumps. I would have thought (from a PR viewpoint) someone who looked less like him would've been more suitable for "church" security.

I suppose the fact that a "church'' even needs security tells everyone all they need to know though.

Meanwhile the facts are the only thing the Police and the court will be interested in.

 

[freethinker]

Here is an excerpt for you FT...

Affray came into law in 1988 after the violent Milperra bikie clash with much much stiffer sentences than the more usual charge of common assault. Affray is being used more and more by police for public brawls as they don't have to prove who was the aggressor.
Assault comes under Section 61 of the Crimes Act and is used when a person physically attacks another person but does not cause an injury that could elevate the charge to bodily harm or grievous bodily harm. It can include spitting or threatening to attack another person. Common assault has a two year maximum prison sentence.

Source: http://www.mondaq.com/australia/x/312688/Crime/So+just+what+is+affray

For those interested, the story of the Milperra father's day massacre 1988: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milperra_massacre

This was my source.

https://www.armstronglegal.com.au/criminal-law/offences/public-violence/affray

 

[Leland]

Meanwhile the facts are the only thing the Police and the court will be interested in.

Granted. But it seems you are being intentionally obtuse.

Sure, I'm making some assumptions.

But it appears that the above pic was taken on the same day as the rest of the video.
It appears that the woman in question is Asian.
It appears that the location is not on Cult Property..but as the News Report states...."is in the neighborhood...."
The Scientology Enforcer Goon is telling the Video Guy to leave. IT is not a Cult location. What is he doing there? What right does he have to tell the Videographer anything?

It looks to me that this Cult Enforcer is actively tampering with a potential Murder Investigation Witness. This is a serious crime.

If the Police as you say above are interested only in the facts.....how do you feel about the facts being tampered with?

What if this lady knows the Mother....and knew the Son....What if she has valid information that the Police might use?
What if she had something to do with the 2 getting a Visa? What if she was a witness to this "domestic situation" the Cult keeps talking about that happened a day before?


I can think of no reason a Cult Enforcer would be at her door, right after a Murder...than to convey some Cult Enforcement...as in keeping her mouth shut. Why would this Goon go specifically to her house if the Cult/OSA thought she did not have any information regarding the Murder?????

IT seems to me this is an important Fact, just that the Goon is at this lady's door, talking to her.

What he is doing in now PART of the MURDER.....!!!! ( at least under US Law it would be..)

This is a serious crime: Tampering with a witness in a Murder Investigation.

 

[freethinker]

I agree.

Made me re-think about the knife too. At first, I read 20 to 25 cm and thought that would be the blade length....
But perhaps that was the length of the entire knife...including the handle. This changes my idea of the knife from one with an 8 to 9 inch blade ...down to one with a 4 to 5 inch blade...

Still, where was it on his person?

Also this throws any pre-meditation on the part of the Kid out for me. If there was a Brawl inside the AO...if his intent was to go there to cause harm, why didn't he pull the knife at that time.

He only pulled the knife much later....against another person of his own Country and Language....so something must have been said that set him off to the extent of pulling the knife. This to me would be the opposite of pre-meditated; what ever that is called...

Knives are measured from the point to the hilt.

https://www.akti.org/resources/akti-protocol-for-measuring-knife-blade-length/

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Granted. But it seems you are being intentionally obtuse.

Sure, I'm making some assumptions.

But it appears that the above pic was taken on the same day as the rest of the video.
It appears that the woman in question is Asian.
It appears that the location is not on Cult Property..but as the News Report states...."is in the neighborhood...."
The Scientology Enforcer Goon is telling the Video Guy to leave. IT is not a Cult location. What is he doing there? What right does he have to tell the Videographer anything?

It looks to me that this Cult Enforcer is actively tampering with a potential Murder Investigation Witness. This is a serious crime.

If the Police as you say above are interested only in the facts.....how do you feel about the facts being tampered with?

What if this lady knows the Mother....and knew the Son....What if she has valid information that the Police might use?
What if she is this Mother's FSM or had something to do with the 2 getting a Visa?


I can think of no reason a Cult Enforcer would be at her door, right after a Murder...than to convey some Cult Enforcement...as in keeping her mouth shut. Why would this Goon go specifically to her house if the Cult/OSA thought she did not have any information regarding the Murder?????

IT seems to me this is an important Fact, just that the Goon is at this lady's door, talking to her.

What he is doing in now PART of the MURDER.....!!!! ( at least under US Law it would be..)

This is a serious crime: Tampering with a witness in a Murder Investigation.

FFS.

Perhaps you should immediately inform the detectives involved in the case of your assumptions ... I'm sure they'll be very impressed and learn something from them (and instantly ban everyone involved in any crime scene from ever speaking, glancing or in any way communicating again with anyone ... until the court case is over).

Over and out.

 

[Leland]

^^^^

I had to look up FFS. LOL.

Perhaps I should. He doesn't look very forthcoming though...

 

[freethinker]

A couple new News Vids:

https://www.9news.com.au/national/2...ohDHU4c39WAaCK2XSkHJVUoXbxMPATZXVa-Ynqe0PXToY

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=199715330892704

OK, one video there said his throat was slashed, however, others say he stabbed the neck. It's a definite distinction between the two because a slashing can be defensive, a stabbing not likely.

I also noted that the kid was barefoot. I don't know if that is common in Australia but it seemed out of place and suggests he may have been there for a while, or even staying there. Do they take your shoes off in Australia when you are arrested?

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

I wonder how much of the bridge the mother had paid for and if that was a large part of the 'domestic dispute'.

Here is how I can imagine the build up to this having gone.

The night before the son visits the AO.

Hi mom, welcome home how did your herbal cleansing program go today?

Ahh son, I feel so exhausted but I am told that is normal at the beginning. But I have great NEWS. While in the sauna today I had a long talk with the registrar and she told me that I was very lucky to be doing the program at the AO because I can go very far at the AO and I will be able to make our family very rich if I go all the way to level OT 5 while I am here. So I paid the AO, 5 million New Taiwanese dollars because they gave me a big discount by paying all at once.

Son....but but but mom, I thought we only had 2 million NTD? How did you pay 5 million?

Oh that was easy son, your rich aunt agreed to lend me the extra 3 million and we can pay her back when we sell our house back home in Taiwan. She is even going to lend me an extra 1 million to start a scientology mission back home and we will become rich and you will be able to study at their Hubbard Business College in California. I know how much you want to go to business school and US colleges are so good.

OMG mom, you need to read the ex-scientology message board and Tony Ortega's Underground bunker. They are going to bankrupt us, like they have done over decades to so many scientology members.

Son don't disrespect your elder, the church told me that L Ron Hubbard even taught Confucius many centuries ago and you know that Confucius taught what he learned from Mr. Hubbard to always respect your elders.

Okay mom, I will come tomorrow during your lunch time and bring my cell phone and show you the websites...and be assured I will do whatever I have to do to protect you from any possible harm....always..

 

[freethinker]

New Media vid:

Some good stuff! Tony Ortega talks...

Plus that tough looking Scientology Security Guard is in this video a couple times.

In one brief clip...it looks like he is talking to an area neighbor and instructing the News Video team to leave and get away. This woman at the door looks like another Taiwanese...and is perhaps another Cult Member or Public.

This is astounding as it shows the Scientology Cult Security Guard interfering with a Police Investigation into a Murder...!!!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1894240884035354

Again they say he didn't want his mother to do the purif. Not a domestic dispute excluding Scientology.

 

[Leland]

Again they say he didn't want his mother to do the purif. Not a domestic dispute excluding Scientology.

Yes, very true.

Of course as stated in some News Vids....the Mother reported her and her son's dispute regarding his mother doing the Purif...to the Cult.

That would have automatically made her son an Suppressive Person in the logic and written materials of Scientology.

It would have made her son an SP, not just to his mother....but the entirety of Scientology

So, that would have placed the Son on the Scientology "data base" as an active SP....and in any event, no mater what was said or done....he would have to have been kicked out of the facility.

This makes the Murder entirely involved with the Cult....and not just a "domestic dispute" from the day before...as is what the Cult is trying to fob off this murder as being.

He would have been viewed as an Enemy to Scientology before he even got to the Advanced Organization.

Time to read up on what the Cult allows to be done to an SP.

The kid as has been reported was not a Scientologist....

So, the kid walked into the Advanced Org....not knowing what the Cult would and is supposed to do with or to an SP.

It looks and sounds like a brawl ensued.

Then he was "escorted" out.

IMO this should all be extenuating circumstances....and taken into consideration.

 

[The_Fixer]

Granted. But it seems you are being intentionally obtuse.

Sure, I'm making some assumptions.

But it appears that the above pic was taken on the same day as the rest of the video.
It appears that the woman in question is Asian.
It appears that the location is not on Cult Property..but as the News Report states...."is in the neighborhood...."
The Scientology Enforcer Goon is telling the Video Guy to leave. IT is not a Cult location. What is he doing there? What right does he have to tell the Videographer anything?

It looks to me that this Cult Enforcer is actively tampering with a potential Murder Investigation Witness. This is a serious crime.

If the Police as you say above are interested only in the facts.....how do you feel about the facts being tampered with?

What if this lady knows the Mother....and knew the Son....What if she has valid information that the Police might use?
What if she had something to do with the 2 getting a Visa? What if she was a witness to this "domestic situation" the Cult keeps talking about that happened a day before?


I can think of no reason a Cult Enforcer would be at her door, right after a Murder...than to convey some Cult Enforcement...as in keeping her mouth shut. Why would this Goon go specifically to her house if the Cult/OSA thought she did not have any information regarding the Murder?????

IT seems to me this is an important Fact, just that the Goon is at this lady's door, talking to her.

What he is doing in now PART of the MURDER.....!!!! ( at least under US Law it would be..)

This is a serious crime: Tampering with a witness in a Murder Investigation.

^^^^

I had to look up FFS. LOL.

Perhaps I should. He doesn't look very forthcoming though...

View attachment 14872

OK, one video there said his throat was slashed, however, others say he stabbed the neck. It's a definite distinction between the two because a slashing can be defensive, a stabbing not likely.

I also noted that the kid was barefoot. I don't know if that is common in Australia but it seemed out of place and suggests he may have been there for a while, or even staying there. Do they take your shoes off in Australia when you are arrested?

Okay.

I'm pretty sure the security guy would be aware of his police and legal obligations here. Police can override privacy rules to gain access to a crime scene, especially major crimes without obtaining a warrant. Obstructing the course of justice is a serious charge here too and carries significant penalties. The police use that charge from time to time here as suits. The question here is are they asking for access or looking for a specific person(s)?

Lee, we don't even know who this woman is, her level in the church or even if she is a person of interest to the police. It could well be she and the "goon" are good friends for all we know and what you are seeing is completely innocent. Or not...

The human mind, like Nature, abhors a vacuum. In the absence of facts or information, it will move to fill in the gaps which occasionally leads to some pretty wild assumptions. Hard to wait for the full story, but it will unfold in time. It is hard to resist the temptation to keep out of that rabbit hole.

From the arrests I've seen on TV here for major violent crimes, the suspects often have their hands and feet bagged at the arrest site and I assume their shoes are taken to protect potential evidence. Usually they also have to don those disposable hooded coveralls as well, which I noticed they didn't do here.

 

[Leland]

Lee, we don't even know who this woman is, her level in the church or even if she is a person of interest to the police. It could well be she and the "goon" are good friends for all we know and what you are seeing is completely innocent. Or not...

Makes total sense to me Fixer.

The day of a Murder at a Scientology Advanced Org.... (or the day after...) this Cult Enforcer is over at this woman's house...for a Nooner, perhaps?

That video with Bryan Seymore and Tony Ortega....it was stated that they figured David Miscavage was probably in direct contact with the AO Australia at all time regarding this.

This is a HUGE FIRE for the Cult, you don't think it would be an ALL HANDS situation?

Do you really think that this Goon at this Ladies house the day or the day after a SEA ORG murder is not something of interest????

You really think he might have just stopped by for a cup of tea?

One News Report stated that a Cult Student could not attend Course the next day because the place was SHUT DOWN! That is HUGE. The Cult SHUT ITS DOORS!

Edited:
I'm not trying to solve this thing Fixer...I'm just very interested in how it is all unfolding and pointing out things, that in my opinion should be looked into....or look wrong or odd.

 

[The_Fixer]

Fair enough Lee.