A different kind of FreeZone Story

[Anonycat]

Novis!

 

[Gib]

I know a little bit - but probably more than enough - about what Grade 0 is. I've done it on Paul's Robot, and I've read the questions the Co$ uses or used to use.

It's my opinion that it is the very first step in getting you to disengage your Bozo filter and your privacy filter. Talk to anyone about anything! Pah!

There are some subjects I don't don't want to breach with the public. Ever. Such as my kids' private lives.

There are some people I don't want to engage, ever. Such as that lying sack of shit Andrew Wakefield, who has killed and sickened more kids than Typhoid Mary.

And there are some subjects I wish to avoid with certain people. Such as discussing the tech with Free Zoners I happen to otherwise like.

Humans are naturally multi-faceted, and I think that condition arose for good evolutionary reasons.

A human being has the right to compartmentalize, and that natural inclination. Like everything, it can be taken too far, but monkey with it only with caution.

There is nothing in this "tech", even the most benign-seeming, that Hubbard did not design to both entice you and lower your defenses to his bullshit. And by engaging in it with the goal of "talking to anyone about anything", your Bozo filters and resistance to generalized bullshit are degraded.

I think exercises such as Grade 0 are the first step into allowing the cult to pry into areas you would otherwise keep private by substituting Hubbard's goal of prying shit out of you for your natural goal of being a private human. These exercises, in my opinion, are also one of the reasons why conspiracy theories abound in the Co$ and on this board - too much engagement at face value and not enough solitary reflection in the absence of an auditor or external process.

If you want to become more perceptive of the world around you, take a science class or a martial arts class. Not only will it achieve the same goals as the tech, it will do so more deeply and effectively, with the added benefit that you will have additional life skills. And you'll not be exposed to any possible Hubbard malice.

I haven't seen anything beneficial in the tech (and there is certainly some beneficial stuff there) that can't be done better with some other method. I like Arnie's analogy. Sure, you can pick the good stuff out of $cientology like raisins out of a pile of shit, but all you'll be left with is a pile of shit-covered raisins.

I like your choice of word for auditing as "exercises".

There is a definition of responsibility in the tech dictionary of scientology which is "admit causing," "able to withhold".

As you state, because of Grade 0 auditing, one learns (exercises) to communicate about everything. This in itself ties a noose around the scientologists neck because they think they need to communicate everything. And are not able to withhold communications. And yet hubbard withheld lots of things.

But, as you say, they are not able to withhold communications that would incriminate themselves, if one was to start a new life. But because of his engram theory, this keeps people thinking that they need to disclose their pasts. When maybe it is better to just get on with life.

 

[degraded being]

..

Thanks Veda for reminding me of that photo of John Travolta. . .

BEFORE OT III

AFTER OT III

It has something to do with evil aliens. ​

Yoo beeerly beerly badd boi!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

..

Owning a computer and wanting to do Scientology is like...

Seeing something you want to buy on e-Bay and noticing that the seller was banned because of rampant fraud.

But still trying to figure out a way to contact them so you can buy it. ​

 

[Veda]

I like your choice of word for auditing as "exercises".

There is a definition of responsibility in the tech dictionary of scientology which is "admit causing," "able to withhold".

In 1958, Hubbard wrote that the ability to withhold increased IQ.

The 2nd part of the chapter, 'Souls Turned Inside Out', from the book, 'Messiah or Madman' examines this area.

As you state, because of Grade 0 auditing, one learns (exercises) to communicate about everything. This in itself ties a noose around the scientologists neck because they think they need to communicate everything. And are not able to withhold communications.

-snip-

To an extent, but, as I recall, Grade 0 consists of mostly un-intrusive questions. "What would it be OK to say to _____." From where you could you communicate to_____?" "Spot a communication," etc. (From memory. Corrections welcome.)

You seem to be describing Grade 2.

Although, Grade 0 does - sneakily - "set up" a person for such things as the intrusive Grade 2.

 

[Gib]

In 1958, Hubbard wrote that the ability to withhold increased IQ.

The 2nd part of the chapter, 'Souls Turned Inside Out', from the book, 'Messiah or Madman' examines this area.

To an extent, but, as I recall, Grade 0 consists of mostly un-intrusive questions. "What would it be OK to say to _____." From where you could you communicate to_____?" "Spot a communication," etc. (From memory. Corrections welcome.)

You seem to be describing Grade 2.

Although, Grade 0 does - sneakily - "set up" a person for such things as the intrusive Grade 2.

true,

but it sets one up to do total communication to revealing all overts and crimes committed against scientology per the scientology ethics book. Grade 2.

For example, I am grade 0 release, but underground.

So if some scientology member approached me and asked me if I was posting on ESMB, why if I was still a true believer I would say yes.

But, I am able to withhold. And lie to the person asking me, and I would say no.

But, why would I lie?

So as to protect myself and help others.

But, hubbard twisted this around as saying I'm PTS or an SP.

Once one is in the hamster wheel and other family members, it is hard to get out of it. As you know.

 

[X-Member-Hooray]

I think there is much to be said by achieving case gain or some sort of amazing benefit such as being able to walk after being in a wheelchair for years, after some type of healing process, when one has 100% faith in some type of ideology. Although uncommon, I have heard a number of stories from fairly balanced people. However benefits can be short lived or sometimes dont really add up to anything on great advantage.

I would like to suggest you make records of how you felt before a certain Scientology / Freezone process. Then a couple of months later reflect and see if you have acquired some type of advantage from it such as destimulation of something that was troubling you, or greater satisfaction in life, or increased ability.

I have to admit after seeing numerous people return from St Hill after OTs, NOTS etc, after seeing an initial high and enthusiasm from them I struggled to notice much difference in their disposition and level of ability, if at all.

 

[aegerprimo]

..

Owning a computer and wanting to do Scientology is like...

Seeing something you want to buy on e-Bay and noticing that the seller was banned because of rampant fraud.

But still trying to figure out a way to contact them so you can buy it. ​

BAM!
.
.

 

[Anonycat]

I think there is much to be said by achieving case gain or some sort of amazing benefit such as being able to walk after being in a wheelchair for years, after some type of healing process, when one has 100% faith in some type of ideology. Although uncommon, I have heard a number of stories from fairly balanced people. However benefits can be short lived or sometimes dont really add up to anything on great advantage.

I would like to suggest you make records of how you felt before a certain Scientology / Freezone process. Then a couple of months later reflect and see if you have acquired some type of advantage from it such as destimulation of something that was troubling you, or greater satisfaction in life, or increased ability.

I have to admit after seeing numerous people return from St Hill after OTs, NOTS etc, after seeing an initial high and enthusiasm from them I struggled to notice much difference in their disposition and level of ability, if at all.

Right, Hubbard said it was so hot, it just couldn't help expanding. Couldn't help it. But, that was a crock. So the free zone wants to make stupid promises, but to a far lesser degree than Hubbards' attained wizardry? Okay, but people will be pointing and laughing. I guess that's a given.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I think there is much to be said by achieving case gain or some sort of amazing benefit such as being able to walk after being in a wheelchair for years, after some type of healing process, when one has 100% faith in some type of ideology. Although uncommon, I have heard a number of stories from fairly balanced people. However benefits can be short lived or sometimes dont really add up to anything on great advantage.

I would like to suggest you make records of how you felt before a certain Scientology / Freezone process. Then a couple of months later reflect and see if you have acquired some type of advantage from it such as destimulation of something that was troubling you, or greater satisfaction in life, or increased ability.

I have to admit after seeing numerous people return from St Hill after OTs, NOTS etc, after seeing an initial high and enthusiasm from them I struggled to notice much difference in their disposition and level of ability, if at all.

Despite people thinking that I am a complete cynic about all things Scientology, I did nevertheless read a Success Story one time that made me think that the tech could produce near-miraculous gains.

SUCCESS STORY

When I was a child I was unable to walk.
My parents (both OTs and Auditors) gave me daily
sessions, yet because my hands were so tiny I was
unable to hold the cans. Thus, they audited me in
the theta universe or telepathically. I know this
might sound crazy to some but it is 100% true and
I can verify all of what happened. After nearly 16
months of daily sessions, I began walking. For
those of you skeptics, I have videotape of this
miracle. From that time until now (50 years later)
I have never once had any difficulty walking, thus
I have total certainty that the tech works!

ML, Billy Blowdown
ps: the auditing sessions began
when I was only two weeks old,
so anyone can do it!​

 

[ThetanExterior]

I have to admit after seeing numerous people return from St Hill after OTs, NOTS etc, after seeing an initial high and enthusiasm from them I struggled to notice much difference in their disposition and level of ability, if at all.

I think one aspect of it is that people gain a new "status" because they've moved up the Bridge. Much like getting a promotion. But then the novelty wears off when they realize it doesn't actually help them in their life.

Another thing is the Success Story. If you don't write a good enough success story after auditing or training you know you're going to have to go through various investigations and corrective actions, all of which YOU pay for. So you learn pretty quickly that you have to come up with incredible wins after every action but again, like the status thing, you can't keep it up for long and soon you go back to everyday life.

I used to audit staff members. Out of session they would gush about how on-purpose it was to be a staff member and how they were Clearing the planet. In the auditing chair they would be crying their eyes out because they wanted to leave staff and couldn't get out.

It's all smoke and mirrors. And bullshit.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Udarnik, do you know what "Grade 0" is?

Your warnings would have more credibility if you did.

Veda, I perceive that he means studying Scientology as a means of transforming oneself into a superior than human being who can wield magical powers. I totally agree with him...studying and embracing Scientology as any kind of a system of knowledge or "self-improvement" IS drinking from a poisoned well. All the beginning processes, which may be relatively harmless compared with later "processing" , are a slippery slope to madness.

He's not just playing around with the grades, his "goal" is to go OT!!!

Just because there is a raisin in the turd doesn't mean that one should pick it out and eat it! (I love you, Arnie Lerma!)

IT'S A CULT, IT'S A CULT, IT'S A CULT!!! Whether one is joining up body and soul to Corporate Scientology, the CULT of the so-called "Church of Scientology", meeting up with small groups of apostates, or one is just messing around with it on one's own over the internet...one is still getting involved with a CULT!!!

I would NEVER, in good conscience, encourage any naive or ignorant but enthused person to study or practice Scientology...either on their own or with a "co-processor", excuse me "co-auditor" that they located over the internet.

Especially as a substitute for whatever it is that is lacking in them and needed in their lives, as a substitute for real world counseling, drug or alcohol treatment, education, job training, better social skills or whatever else might be needed for an individual to flourish and prosper, which is the way most people utilize Scientology...hoping they can bypass the hard work of self-discovery and discipline that the rest of us human beings must manage and master to some successful degree in order to do well in life.

Ron's body of work, taken in it's entirety, is like a fairy tale that so many misguided and DELUSIONAL people desperately want to believe is true... I would advise the OP to read a great deal of the life wisdom and experience that is shared by MULTITUDES of former Scientology Cult members here and elsewhere on the internet. It's a wonderful free education in and of itself! Be wise enough to learn from other's mistakes.

Very troubled people are drawn to Scientology. Because it seems like secret knowledge, a "path" to having magical powers that other people do not have access to, a hidden short-cut to the hard work of living successfully. Having that as a desire and life quest is the sign of a very troubled person, in and of itself!

People who are seeking secret magical paths to powers and "success" often don't want to admit to themselves just how troubled they really are. (I include Ron himself in this group!)

But many of the rest of us mere mortals can see it readily. Udarnikki and I are two such souls.

Big hugs to you anyways, Veda!

ocO1, I do indeed wish you good luck, and wish you well as you learn the truth about Scientology...that it is something Ron made up to make money of off gullible, needy and hurting people, a lie, a fraud, a con game. It hurts people FAR MORE than it helps them, in the long run. Even innocent people who are not Scientologists!

Do yourself a favor, peruse thoroughly Arnie Lerma's website, he has been there and done that: http://www.lermanet.com/

and then this one: http://www.exscn.net/

and then come back here on ESMB and tell us about your wins!

 

[Claire Swazey]

I say nuh uh but probably not for the reasons you'd think...

(having just completed a second workshop in my current chosen discipline- which is most definitely NOT Scientology and to which, I felt, Scientology did not measure up in the comparisons I have personally noted, here is my perspective as an ex Scientologist who has moved on and as one who has approached this from every angle possible, including experiential and the skeptical. I am one of those who have the most basis for comparison of anyone on this thread.)

No, for it to be a cult, it has to have a cultic structure and cultic attributes. It's not a cult, because it's not a group- it's all individual practitioners many of whom differ greatly in their practices and interpretations. It's not centralized, though there certainly are networks of some like minded practitioners. But not centralized like CofS. There are no "uplines" or "int management" (Int midgetment!) no OSA, or any of that.

Now, if anyone thinks that this means I think non CofS Scn is completely without pitfalls and problems, they have another think coming. I think there are a lot of issues with Scn as ology- which does transfer over to non CofS Scn. That is why I turned away from it. I see a number of pitfalls with it. But cult is not one of the pitfalls I see, because that is not the situation.

I was tempted to get all emphatic and say it never was the sitch and never would be, but that wouldn't be necessarily so. The very pitfalls in Scn as ology could cause a new cult to arise. I tended to think that was where Marty Rathbun was headed though lately I hear he's getting away from identifying himself as a Scn'ist. So I don't know what the hell he's doing. For all I know, he may still be interested in taking over CofS or having a new CofS type thing. This was the impression I had of him for quite some time and if, indeed, I was correct about that, maybe that's still what he wants to do. Dunno.

So I think CofS is a cult. I think you could have a non CofS Scn cult. I think it's entirely possible. But I don't agree that it's happened yet.

And here is, in part, a basis for my hypothesis:

From Internatl Cultic Studies Assn's piece on this. I think this is a pretty good summation of what we now understand cults to be. (the word has been redefined in the past couple or so decades. That's not condemnation. I think it needed to be redefined as people found out more and more about cults and what they do.) Note that the majority - I think just about all- pertain to CofS. Whereas only some pertain to the FZ.


"The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

‪ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

‪ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

‪ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

‪ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

‪ The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

‪ The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

‪ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

‪ The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪ The group is preoccupied with making money.

‪ Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

‪ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

‪ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave."

Having said the above and quoted the attributes, I will reiterate at this time that there are elements of Scn as ology that present problems, that would translate over to any practice. I also hypothesize that the reason that the various many factions of non CofS Scn aren't the insanely totalitarian cultic milieu that we all see in CofS is that this difference is directly in ratio to how free form and willing to differ with policy- and sometimes "tech"- that the practitioner happens to be. This is based on my observation and experience.


Nothing in the preceding post should be taken as an indication that I am a closet Scientologist, am pimping for the FZ or agree with Hubbard on everything or that it's because of my husband. No. That would be really dumb, though it's not stopped some people from saying those sorts of things.

 

[Claire Swazey]

before I crash I'd like to say

Since I'm almost about to start drooling on my keyboard, Just will say this before I collapse for the ight

There are many things in my last two belief systems/disciplines (Catholicism and Scn) that caused me to reject them. However, perhaps differently from other ex Catholics and other ex Scn'ists, I still give props to things I learned in both, while still being, most definitely, an ex (of each). Aspects of each are part of my experiential background and there are concepts in each of these isms and ologies to which I still subscribe. That does not make me an adherent of either. But it does probably mean I have a more laissez faire attitude than would many exes.

I sometimes feel very sad that what I say to people who are still into those things (from which I moved on) as well as people who are not in favor of those things can sometimes worry or upset people. I know that my laissez faire (I didn't want to say "tolerant" because that would sound like I was calling other people INtolerant which is an extremely loaded term and it would not be what I meant to convey) views on these rejected ologies- Scn being the most relevant one for this board (though both are on exactly the same footing with ME) views sometimes strike some people as problematic. I think that misunderstandings can and have arisen. And something else that makes me sad is that some of my non CofS Scn friends have also felt upset by my candor and depictions of my turning away and moving on from Scn. It seems I've made a lot of people feel bad.

All I can say is that I know that, for me, concepts I learned as a young Catholic fluffy are, in some cases, still true for me and that this later happened with Scn. I didn't have to work at looking for raisins to pick out of the ____ (I'm sorry but that's really a repellent turn of phrase and I've no desire to barf right now). It just happened. Sometimes stuff kind of jumps out at ya and separates itself. This kept happening to me over and over. So I assumed that it would or could be like that for everyone.

Evidently not, though.

So if anyone was wondering why the cherrypicking, etc, then that's why.

I think you have to follow your heart. I think adding a dose of skepticism can act as a counterpart. I think that all skepticism and nothing else would skew things the other way. I bet fifty bux that quite a few people would disagree with me, but that's my impression. I guess I'm recommending a golden mean and to treat grownups like grownups, which is what most Western nations do, even with beliefs.

Notwithstanding that, I am fully supportive of government measures to keep sects and cults in check- as has been done in Europe. I am really not sure why the US is so back offish on this- maybe it has something to do with the IRS agreement and CofS has some really good dirt on the US government. But when it comes to a question of ology, that's where I ask people to follow their hearts but to also consider other points of view, literature, modalities and the experiences of others.

 

[Helena Handbasket]

(Underscore emphasis mine below.)

I would NEVER, in good conscience, encourage any naive or ignorant but enthused person to study or practice Scientology...either on their own or with a "co-processor", excuse me "co-auditor" that they located over the internet.

This is the sort of advice I should have followed before my great Australian catastrophe. I met him over Skype and he misrepresented what he could and was willing to do. Never again.

Especially as a substitute for whatever it is that is lacking in them and needed in their lives, as a substitute for real world counseling, drug or alcohol treatment, education, job training, better social skills or whatever else might be needed for an individual to flourish and prosper, which is the way most people utilize Scientology...hoping they can bypass the hard work of self-discovery and discipline that the rest of us human beings must manage and master to some successful degree in order to do well in life.

Very troubled people are drawn to Scientology. Because it seems like secret knowledge, a "path" to having magical powers that other people do not have access to, a hidden short-cut to the hard work of living successfully. Having that as a desire and life quest is the sign of a very troubled person, in and of itself!

Yes, that describes me. (Although I really didn't know any better when I first got in.)

"The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.‪"

I, for one never believed LRH was right about everything. (That's probably what kept me off staff.)

I am fully supportive of government measures to keep sects and cults in check- as has been done in Europe. I am really not sure why the US is so back offish on this- maybe it has something to do with the IRS agreement and CofS has some really good dirt on the US government.

I believe the US government fully supports the church as it actually exists today -- because they want the church to keep shooting itself in the foot, keep on discrediting themselves, and eventually be utterly destroyed.

Helena