After 35 years I'm finally out

[Wants2Talk]

Welcome welcome welcome, Spectator and OldSalt.



Children (and by that I include everyone up to the age of 25, having raised two daughters to 30 and 32 years of age) do not have the framework to judge a con. Most people never develop one, but children in particular seem to see things so much in absolutes. "You're with us, or you're against us."

This is so true!

 

[Wants2Talk]

Hey TheSpectator,

I just realized something. You could write letters to your kids, like once a month or two, short letters, and just let them know how you are doing.

Like, you just landed a good job and you're making double the money and bought a new BMW. Or you landed a new client if you have a business. Or some other goods news.

I wouldn't criticize the scientology horseshit game. And in fact, I'd ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.

Just because they disconnected from you doesn't mean you have to disconnect from them, you know what I mean?

I should take this to heart.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Indeed you're not. I finally joined the forum tonight after nearly 30 years of being out and many years of silent observance. I was once married to an infamous scientologist who took my daughter into the church as soon as she was 18 and I have not seen her since. My heart is still broken.

Welcome, happysurfer!
I hope you will see your daughter again. This is heartbreaking.
You are among friends here.

 

[Wants2Talk]

Thanks for the welcome. It is a relief to be among those who do understand. Catching my breath. For now, just glad to be out, peace, keep my head down, get away, sleep properly. Want to move away to a more remote place - new views, new games. Still have friends in I want to get out. Making my plans. Maybe a move up north would be good for the soul. I still believe that some of the tech has a use - before the midget fucked it all up..... am open to suggestions..

You are welcome in my CT house. New Hampshire looks good to me. Come have some coffee or wine by the fire...we'll dream!

 

[Mick Wenlock]

big welcome to all the new arrivals - hope you find old friends on here!! if any of you are near Colorado - feel free to drop on by.

 

[Wants2Talk]

Just a brief introduction. As 20-somthing college kid I became involved with Scientology and thought it would be the salvation of the world. My experiences in the first 5 years were great. I went from a novice to OT III in 4 years or so, and continued with auditor training after that. I knew Scientology would catch on but as the years progressed I wondered why Scientology continued to be held in disrepute. I stayed faithful, and in the early 1990s, continued up to OT VII. I was so dedicated that I attested to completing "The Level" not once but twice. When I was on OT VII for the third time (Golden Age of Tech version) I finally stopped auditing. In general, The Level sucked. I was worse off by daily auditing on OT VII because it's a bunch of crap!

Still, for some reason, I remained faithful to Scientology. I justified my continued adherence because "The Tech" wasn't fully understood or being applied. Little did I know that the maelstrom that is Scientology can't be fully understood or applied by anyone. Scientology is a goat fuck of immense proportions.

As many other Scientologists did I faded away from the group. Easy for me because I didn't work for a Scientology business nor did I have many Scientology friends; I had little to lose socially. Personally there was more to loose. My family were mostly all Scientologist including my kids. So I had to keep up appearances.

Eventually my spouse divorced me. My spouse stayed with Scientology and took our kids in the process (I was the "SP", after all). Scientology's version of shuning (Disconnection) was applied and I lost my family. While I couldn't care less about my spouse I do care about my kids. They're over 18-years old and technically adults, really, but they're still kids. They're mistakenly trying to find salvation in Scientology as I did in my 20s.

I stayed in Scientology for far too long. Was I a fool? Yes, in many ways I was. But I believed in the "star-high" goal Hubbard had set for us. Little did I know that he had no practical plan for mankind. Scientology was all "postulated reality"; something Hubbard had imagined would become reality if enough people agreed.

So for now I'm "Spectator". Watching, observing, learning, applying. At some point I'll be able to reveal my identity but only after my kids are safe from Scientology.

Thank you all for being here and posting.

Spectator

Spec

I openly tried to get my 3 kids out 12 years ago. I failed and got cut out. At the time, it seemed necessary to break the mind grip on my and at the time potentially all of mankind's world view. Today is a different time. Faced now with a similar situation, I would take an approach similar to yours.

Today I am on my first day of thanksgiving break in my last year of grad school. I am now 61 yo (I met man's dearest friend in my twenties as well). I've missed a few nights sleep recently. In depth discussion of kids and Scientology would require more of me than I can give right now. But I do look forward to sharing with you in the future after I recharge a bit.

<manhug>

Welcome

 

[HASbeen]

Just a brief introduction. As 20-somthing college kid I became involved with Scientology and thought it would be the salvation of the world. My experiences in the first 5 years were great. I went from a novice to OT III in 4 years or so, and continued with auditor training after that. I knew Scientology would catch on but as the years progressed I wondered why Scientology continued to be held in disrepute. I stayed faithful, and in the early 1990s, continued up to OT VII. I was so dedicated that I attested to completing "The Level" not once but twice. When I was on OT VII for the third time (Golden Age of Tech version) I finally stopped auditing. In general, The Level sucked. I was worse off by daily auditing on OT VII because it's a bunch of crap!

Still, for some reason, I remained faithful to Scientology. I justified my continued adherence because "The Tech" wasn't fully understood or being applied. Little did I know that the maelstrom that is Scientology can't be fully understood or applied by anyone. Scientology is a goat fuck of immense proportions.

As many other Scientologists did I faded away from the group. Easy for me because I didn't work for a Scientology business nor did I have many Scientology friends; I had little to lose socially. Personally there was more to loose. My family were mostly all Scientologist including my kids. So I had to keep up appearances.

Eventually my spouse divorced me. My spouse stayed with Scientology and took our kids in the process (I was the "SP", after all). Scientology's version of shuning (Disconnection) was applied and I lost my family. While I couldn't care less about my spouse I do care about my kids. They're over 18-years old and technically adults, really, but they're still kids. They're mistakenly trying to find salvation in Scientology as I did in my 20s.

I stayed in Scientology for far too long. Was I a fool? Yes, in many ways I was. But I believed in the "star-high" goal Hubbard had set for us. Little did I know that he had no practical plan for mankind. Scientology was all "postulated reality"; something Hubbard had imagined would become reality if enough people agreed.

So for now I'm "Spectator". Watching, observing, learning, applying. At some point I'll be able to reveal my identity but only after my kids are safe from Scientology.

Thank you all for being here and posting.

Spectator

[H][/H]

Great info and support here!

Spectator, my heart has the same hole. Maybe writing letters would be helpful even if you don't send them. As for me, I've made sure I'm contactable, should they ever leave, and can only hope that someday.....

Sounds like you've read some good books there. I'll suggest a couple of my favorites: Cults in our Midst by Margaret Singer and Combatting Cult Mind Control by Stephen Hassan.

Take a deep breath of non-Scientology tainted air and relax!

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Hey TheSpectator,

I just realized something. You could write letters to your kids, like once a month or two, short letters, and just let them know how you are doing.

Like, you just landed a good job and you're making double the money and bought a new BMW. Or you landed a new client if you have a business. Or some other goods news.

I wouldn't criticize the scientology horseshit game. And in fact, I'd ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist.

Just because they disconnected from you doesn't mean you have to disconnect from them, you know what I mean?

While I wish this were true, I can't say it is. The letters don't get there. They get tossed. They believe in disconnection because they believe in KSW. KSW says that by cutting com the person will cognate and recant.

I only say this from my viewpoint. Move on. It will tear your heart out if you don't.

Mimsey

 

[suspiciousperson]

a goat fuck of immense proportions.

pix pls

 

[Wants2Talk]

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Indeed you're not. I finally joined the forum tonight after nearly 30 years of being out and many years of silent observance. I was once married to an infamous scientologist who took my daughter into the church as soon as she was 18 and I have not seen her since. My heart is still broken.

I wanted to reply to all those who talked about children still in as we are dealing with a similar situation with our elder son who is still in.

There is no "proven" way to get any adult out of scientology - even our children.

In some ways I have it a little easier than most in that I discussed the possibility with my son before he elected to go back in to Scientology. He chose the way he wanted to go and I have to accept that he made his choice.

If not already done - I would advise anyone to read up on the True Believer to find out why some attempts to persuade just will not work . Other than that I think, for those parents who want to DO something then start working to bring down Miscavige and his house of cards, it is the best hope you have.

And second to that - live your life without Scientology, don't allow this odious church and the stupidity of its ideas run or ruin YOUR life - you took the steps to get your life back you should keep it. Be honest and open about your opinions if asked, don't try to force your views on your adult children, let them know, as best you can, that your arms are open any time they wish to embrace and that YOUR line and YOUR love are nor dependent on or controlled by Scientology.

If you want to contribute to bringing down the crumbling edifice then be sure to support ESMB - it is supported solely by donations, post stuff on here - expecially about people you know in the cofs - a lot of people come here to find out what happened to their friends who are still on and everyone appreciates an update of some kind. Donate to help Chuck Beatty keep open his 1-800 number for XSO a valuable resource. Read up on what the real stories are - find out what was actually going on when you were going up the bridge and thought it was all wonderful.

There is a lot you can do.

 

[Gib]

I wanted to reply to all those who talked about children still in as we are dealing with a similar situation with our elder son who is still in.

There is no "proven" way to get any adult out of scientology - even our children.

In some ways I have it a little easier than most in that I discussed the possibility with my son before he elected to go back in to Scientology. He chose the way he wanted to go and I have to accept that he made his choice.

If not already done - I would advise anyone to read up on the True Believer to find out why some attempts to persuade just will not work . Other than that I think, for those parents who want to DO something then start working to bring down Miscavige and his house of cards, it is the best hope you have.

And second to that - live your life without Scientology, don't allow this odious church and the stupidity of its ideas run or ruin YOUR life - you took the steps to get your life back you should keep it. Be honest and open about your opinions if asked, don't try to force your views on your adult children, let them know, as best you can, that your arms are open any time they wish to embrace and that YOUR line and YOUR love are nor dependent on or controlled by Scientology.

If you want to contribute to bringing down the crumbling edifice then be sure to support ESMB - it is supported solely by donations, post stuff on here - expecially about people you know in the cofs - a lot of people come here to find out what happened to their friends who are still on and everyone appreciates an update of some kind. Donate to help Chuck Beatty keep open his 1-800 number for XSO a valuable resource. Read up on what the real stories are - find out what was actually going on when you were going up the bridge and thought it was all wonderful.

There is a lot you can do.

Thanks Mick for your comments above.

I haven't read the True Believer so I did a google search and found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer


In reading the write-up for the book The True Believer, the first summary point mentions :

"Hoffer argues that mass movements begin with a widespread "desire for change" from discontented people who place their locus of control outside their power and who also have no confidence in existing culture or traditions."

That is interesting in that "desire for change" is one of the hooks in scientology. And also the people who place their "locus of control" outside their power, that is basically dianetics where hubbard says in a nutshell that engrams are what was done to you.

Both these items appealed to me big time when I first started.

When I did the google search above I also saw this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome

Now that write-up is absoluting amazing.

"Some in their congregation still believed that Raoul was genuine even after he openly admitted that he was a fake. Keene wrote "I knew how easy it was to make people believe a lie, but I didn't expect the same people, confronted with the lie, would choose it over the truth. ... No amount of logic can shatter a faith consciously based on a lie."

OMG. This is exactly what is happening in scientology. People just won't believe there is no such thing as a "clear" or "OT" even when confronted with the truth.

 

[suspiciousperson]

<=== came

(twice)

 

[Enthetan]

Thanks Mick for your comments above.

I haven't read the True Believer so I did a google search and found this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer


In reading the write-up for the book The True Believer, the first summary point mentions :

"Hoffer argues that mass movements begin with a widespread "desire for change" from discontented people who place their locus of control outside their power and who also have no confidence in existing culture or traditions."

That is interesting in that "desire for change" is one of the hooks in scientology. And also the people who place their "locus of control" outside their power, that is basically dianetics where hubbard says in a nutshell that engrams are what was done to you.

Both these items appealed to me big time when I first started.

When I did the google search above I also saw this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True-believer_syndrome

Now that write-up is absoluting amazing.

"Some in their congregation still believed that Raoul was genuine even after he openly admitted that he was a fake. Keene wrote "I knew how easy it was to make people believe a lie, but I didn't expect the same people, confronted with the lie, would choose it over the truth. ... No amount of logic can shatter a faith consciously based on a lie."

OMG. This is exactly what is happening in scientology. People just won't believe there is no such thing as a "clear" or "OT" even when confronted with the truth.

I've read The True Believer, and would recommend it to anybody trying to understand Scn and other cultish behavior.

 

[Gib]

I've read The True Believer, and would recommend it to anybody trying to understand Scn and other cultish behavior.

I'll check it out, not for me, but for others.

I was never quite the true believer, although for my time on staff I was.

I never made it that far up the bridge, but I have read a good amount of hubbard's books & lectures.

I am fortunate in that I have known many OT's while on staff & compared, and lets say I was not impressed now that the bridge status levels mean nothing to me.

And listening to that 2 hour Jason Beghe video last year plus more research, that woke me up quite a bit.

During my involvement I always kept my observations in and compared. I was always the quiet guy in the background, you might say, just looking, never getting into trouble or causing ripples, I was a good boy. And when I went on staff, my goal was to help but also do my 5 year contract and get "cleared" plus learn the Management Technology so as to then start my own business. I thought it would be all cool and fun and everybody would win.
What a fuk'in joke. Actually more like what a fuk'in nightmare.

 

[Moosejewels]

Just a brief introduction. As 20-somthing college kid I became involved with Scientology and thought it would be the salvation of the world. My experiences in the first 5 years were great. I went from a novice to OT III in 4 years or so, and continued with auditor training after that. I knew Scientology would catch on but as the years progressed I wondered why Scientology continued to be held in disrepute. I stayed faithful, and in the early 1990s, continued up to OT VII. I was so dedicated that I attested to completing "The Level" not once but twice. When I was on OT VII for the third time (Golden Age of Tech version) I finally stopped auditing. In general, The Level sucked. I was worse off by daily auditing on OT VII because it's a bunch of crap!

Still, for some reason, I remained faithful to Scientology. I justified my continued adherence because "The Tech" wasn't fully understood or being applied. Little did I know that the maelstrom that is Scientology can't be fully understood or applied by anyone. Scientology is a goat fuck of immense proportions.

As many other Scientologists did I faded away from the group. Easy for me because I didn't work for a Scientology business nor did I have many Scientology friends; I had little to lose socially. Personally there was more to loose. My family were mostly all Scientologist including my kids. So I had to keep up appearances.

Eventually my spouse divorced me. My spouse stayed with Scientology and took our kids in the process (I was the "SP", after all). Scientology's version of shuning (Disconnection) was applied and I lost my family. While I couldn't care less about my spouse I do care about my kids. They're over 18-years old and technically adults, really, but they're still kids. They're mistakenly trying to find salvation in Scientology as I did in my 20s.

I stayed in Scientology for far too long. Was I a fool? Yes, in many ways I was. But I believed in the "star-high" goal Hubbard had set for us. Little did I know that he had no practical plan for mankind. Scientology was all "postulated reality"; something Hubbard had imagined would become reality if enough people agreed.

So for now I'm "Spectator". Watching, observing, learning, applying. At some point I'll be able to reveal my identity but only after my kids are safe from Scientology.

Thank you all for being here and posting.

Spectator

"A goat fuck of immense proportions". Love that quote. We were the goats. They were the fuckers ! KaChing !

 

[Maria]

I'll check it out, not for me, but for others.

I was never quite the true believer, although for my time on staff I was.

I never made it that far up the bridge, but I have read a good amount of hubbard's books & lectures.

I am fortunate in that I have known many OT's while on staff & compared, and lets say I was not impressed now that the bridge status levels mean nothing to me.

And listening to that 2 hour Jason Beghe video last year plus more research, that woke me up quite a bit.

During my involvement I always kept my observations in and compared. I was always the quiet guy in the background, you might say, just looking, never getting into trouble or causing ripples, I was a good boy. And when I went on staff, my goal was to help but also do my 5 year contract and get "cleared" plus learn the Management Technology so as to then start my own business. I thought it would be all cool and fun and everybody would win.
What a fuk'in joke. Actually more like what a fuk'in nightmare.

That's pretty much my story too. I did believe on the basic tech, and still find some things true, but then, that has nothing to do with scientology...

I'm glad you are all out now.