Congratulations OSA (for now)

[I told you I was trouble]

You're right, ITYIWT. Not popular. Perhaps you should get up to date with the last weeks postings before you offer your advice on handling. As you point out, Emma has enough on her plate without any more dissension.

I think another week for the dust to settle would be prudent before letting four of the people causing the most upset back on the board.

I said the last few days Kookaburra (meaning two) and very little has changed, perhaps you should learn to read ... but thanks for offering your advice on the handling!

Lol.

 

[Smilla]

I think another week for the dust to settle would be prudent before letting four of the people causing the most upset back on the board.

Deleted.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I agree with your comment about the back channel. When there's a major part of the debate going on off the board, it's like listening to a phone conversation where every other word is missing. Then it's hard or impossible to understand why some people behaving the way they are. Sometimes you see someone getting very angry for no apparent reason, or suddenly accusing someone of something out of the blue. It's like reading a document where half of it has been redacted.Having a discussion partly in a thread, and partly out, is guaranteed to produce misunderstanding.
Lobbying people for or against someone in the back channel isn't discussion - it's politics.

This is my last comment on this topic.

Outstanding!

That is exactly what I have been wondering...what the fuck are all these guys TALKING about??!!!

It's like coming into a theater to see the WIZARD OF OZ for the first time and getting there late--really late.

As you sit down you hear "I'm Melllllting!!!" and the green witch goes up in a puff of purple smoke.

A bunch of folks here on ESMB, likewise, melted down-----but I missed all the earlier scenes like the tornado, the wizard behind the curtains and flying monkeys.

I still don't have a freaking clue what happened! LOLOL

 

[Smilla]

Outstanding!

That is exactly what I have been wondering...what the fuck are all these guys TALKING about??!!!

It's like coming into a theater to see the WIZARD OF OZ for the first time and getting there late--really late.

As you sit down you hear "I'm Melllllting!!!" and the green witch goes up in a puff of purple smoke.

A bunch of folks here on ESMB, likewise, melted down-----but I missed all the earlier scenes like the tornado, the wizard behind the curtains and flying monkeys.

I still don't have a freaking clue what happened! LOLOL

Deleted.

 

[Ulf K. Maier]

Please consider...

Perhaps then you might not feel the need... {snipped}

Hi Smilla

Sorry to see you're upset; but, do you really think this belongs on the forum, not to mention on this thread?

Please think about it. I know emotions and the sense of having been deeply offended make this difficult. You may recall that you and I were willing and able to patch up...

“If one man says to thee, ''Thou art a donkey',' pay no heed. If two speak thus, purchase a saddle.” - The Talmud

I don't believe there will be a second such... at least, it ain't gonna be me

Have a better day

 

[Smilla]

Hi Smilla

Sorry to see you're upset; but, do you really think this belongs on the forum, not to mention on this thread?

Please think about it. I know emotions and the sense of having been deeply offended make this difficult. You may recall that you and I were willing and able to patch up...

“If one man says to thee, ''Thou art a donkey',' pay no heed. If two speak thus, purchase a saddle.” - The Talmud

I don't believe there will be a second such... at least, it ain't gonna be me

Have a better day

Thanks Ulf - I'm not really upset, but you're probably right about this not being the best place to mention it. As regards, you and I - we had a small misunderstanding, and nothing more. All the best to you.

 

[anonomog]

Hi Smilla

Sorry to see you're upset; but, do you really think this belongs on the forum, not to mention on this thread?

Please think about it. I know emotions and the sense of having been deeply offended make this difficult. You may recall that you and I were willing and able to patch up...

“If one man says to thee, ''Thou art a donkey',' pay no heed. If two speak thus, purchase a saddle.” - The Talmud

I don't believe there will be a second such... at least, it ain't gonna be me

Have a better day

Actually Ulf, while I appreciate your intentions, I think it does belong here. It helps me understand why some people are having an over the top reaction to things that shouldn't really provoke such a reaction.

I don't want to know everything, but it is nice to have a small understanding of why this board seemed to be building into seething boil from before Christmas.

However great or small the input, we are all members of this board and I, for one, care for the other members. It is upsetting to know something is really off and not have a clue why.

 

[Ulf K. Maier]

Just to clarify...

Actually Ulf, while I appreciate your intentions, I think it does belong here. It helps me understand why some people are having an over the top reaction to things that shouldn't really provoke such a reaction.

I don't want to know everything, but it is nice to have a small understanding of why this board seemed to be building into seething boil from before Christmas.

However great or small the input, we are all members of this board and I, for one, care for the other members. It is upsetting to know something is really off and not have a clue why.

Hi, anonomog. I don't think we've exchanged posts before, it's a pleasure.

The "it" I was referring to was Ms Smilla's post regarding a PM she'd received from Kookaburra, and not the controversy surrounding Mike Laws' postings and the reactions (Bangate?).

I agree wholeheartedly that as a community, we should (and most do) care, and we should be in the know regarding things like Bangate. Having said this, the content of private messages should remain so. Just my dime's worth (inflation LOL).

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Reality Check!

Outstanding!

That is exactly what I have been wondering...what the fuck are all these guys TALKING about??!!!

It's like coming into a theater to see the WIZARD OF OZ for the first time and getting there late--really late.

As you sit down you hear "I'm Melllllting!!!" and the green witch goes up in a puff of purple smoke.

A bunch of folks here on ESMB, likewise, melted down-----but I missed all the earlier scenes like the tornado, the wizard behind the curtains and flying monkeys.

I still don't have a freaking clue what happened! LOLOL

Annoying, isn't it? Just be aware, everyone, that if you are responding to the appearance of what happened, there was more going on behind the scenes that wasn't evident. This accounts for a little bit of the histrionics and paranoid freakouts that we have witnessed lately. And yes, I do use that word "freakout" with intent and purpose...does it resonate with anyone here? Try and stay centered and calm, all those who were really upset by anything that's been said or done or happened lately. Don't add to chaos and consternation, if you can help it.

Over a year ago I said that the majority of the com and action on this board was in back channel chatter, and a prominent Aussie member took great offense at my observing that publicly... it's a little more clearly and easily seen now, isn't it?

Yes, we have the ubiquitous OSA ops, which are mostly like little annoying gnats buzzing around us, that get our attention every so often... Once in a rare while, one flies up your nose and really annoys for a second until you can snort it out and then feel disgusted by it for a moment, but then you take a deep calming breath and just go forward with life and focus on what you were doing just before it happened. Most of the time, all is well here on this board, in spite of their best efforts against the collective here. No matter what our individual differences, we are all pretty much solidly united in the desire to expose and end the horrible abuses of the so-called "Church of Scientology", as quickly as possible, for the sake of humanity. We are closer and closer to achieving this goal all the time, and it is ALL of our collective efforts that is accomplishing this... Please keep that in mind when you get perturbed about someone or something.

Also, we never know what else is going on in real life with our members here, what outside stresses or challenges may be affecting them at any given moment. Life can be very hard at times in spite of the best circumstances, and many of our members are not living with the best of circumstances, as they are recovering from their cult involvement.

So it really is kinder and wiser not to contribute fuel to the fire of someone's seeming meltdown, or being roasted by others here.

If you are doing o.k. in life right now, thank Goodness for that! Please keep in mind that others are not. Please do the best you can to muster up a little compassion for other members here who may not be having as easy a time as you are at the moment. If they are being cranky or rude or suspicious or whatever...maybe there is good reason for it! Try and cut them a little more slack.

Just be aware folks, before you jump in and pile on with criticism or flaming of someone's behavior or communication here, that there is usually more going on than meets the eye, in more ways than one.

We have rules here, and Mods and Administrators to enforce the rules, and it's best to try and abide by them. If you really feel that you can't do that, then take your marbles and go play somewhere else. It's a big world, with a lot of games in it. Have fun! Create a great life for yourself and your family! Go out and do some good in the world!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Speaking of Flying Monkeys...

Oh and Helly, speaking of Flying Monkeys , get a load of these good citizen OSA Operatives in full voice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EYS7SpFTEI

I'm glad they were all caught on camera and can be individually identified to the FBI.

Keep up the good work, OSA!

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Annoying, isn't it? Just be aware, everyone, that if you are responding to the appearance of what happened, there was more going on behind the scenes that wasn't evident. This accounts for a little bit of the histrionics and paranoid freakouts that we have witnessed lately. And yes, I do use that word "freakout" with intent and purpose...does it resonate with anyone here? Try and stay centered and calm, all those who were really upset by anything that's been said or done or happened lately. Don't add to chaos and consternation, if you can help it.

Over a year ago I said that the majority of the com and action on this board was in back channel chatter, and a prominent Aussie member took great offense at my observing that publicly... it's a little more clearly and easily seen now, isn't it?

Yes, we have the ubiquitous OSA ops, which are mostly like little annoying gnats buzzing around us, that get our attention every so often... Once in a rare while, one flies up your nose and really annoys for a second until you can snort it out and then feel disgusted by it for a moment, but then you take a deep calming breath and just go forward with life and focus on what you were doing just before it happened. Most of the time, all is well here on this board, in spite of their best efforts against the collective here. No matter what our individual differences, we are all pretty much solidly united in the desire to expose and end the horrible abuses of the so-called "Church of Scientology", as quickly as possible, for the sake of humanity. We are closer and closer to achieving this goal all the time, and it is ALL of our collective efforts that is accomplishing this... Please keep that in mind when you get perturbed about someone or something.

Also, we never know what else is going on in real life with our members here, what outside stresses or challenges may be affecting them at any given moment. Life can be very hard at times in spite of the best circumstances, and many of our members are not living with the best of circumstances, as they are recovering from their cult involvement.

So it really is kinder and wiser not to contribute fuel to the fire of someone's seeming meltdown, or being roasted by others here.

If you are doing o.k. in life right now, thank Goodness for that! Please keep in mind that others are not. Please do the best you can to muster up a little compassion for other members here who may not be having as easy a time as you are at the moment. If they are being cranky or rude or suspicious or whatever...maybe there is good reason for it! Try and cut them a little more slack.

Just be aware folks, before you jump in and pile on with criticism or flaming of someone's behavior or communication here, that there is usually more going on than meets the eye, in more ways than one.

We have rules here, and Mods and Administrators to enforce the rules, and it's best to try and abide by them. If you really feel that you can't do that, then take your marbles and go play somewhere else. It's a big world, with a lot of games in it. Have fun! Create a great life for yourself and your family! Go out and do some good in the world!

Yeah! Thanks for this.

But suppose, just suppose, that OSA doesn't do anything here.

That would be a bad reflection on us, because that means we act like a bunch of Scientologists all by ourselves.

My advice to people is this: don't talk about another poster in PMs.

It is what Scientologists do. Let's be upfront with all our communication about each other.

We want the light of day to expose Scientology.

Let's shine the light of day on our actions too.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[BunnySkull]

My difficulty with this possibility is that the conjectured plan is too complicated. If Scientology wants to scapegoat its leader, it doesn't need (apparent) external corroboration from Marty and Mike. They can just "overboard" Miscavige whenever they feel like it. Or they can engineer Miscavige running away with plenty of loot if that suits everyone better.

Pretty much nobody outside of Scientology circles knows or cares anything Scientology's management. What would be the benefit of establishing external credibility to support removing Miscavige from power?

Because. Miscavige has an iron grip and doesn't tolerate even thinking about dissent as his sec check mania shows. Countless members have left the cult and said they finally feel free to think and talk as they feel. There is too much internal control and fear to actively try to overthrow DM while in the cult. Your first serious thoughts about such matters may end you up in the RPF or declared. He is fast to act at the first hint of dissent therefore it would be very difficult for any internal revolt to build steam w/o being discovered and crushed - and did I mention fear? Once they are out and no longer under the cults power they feel free to act, organize and plan.

The external credibility is also important for general public PR. How will the cult ever recruit new raw meat at this rate? If the public is somewhat aware, or better yet can look it up if they take an interest in Scio in the future, they will see the big baddie who caused all the problems is gone. "Surewe had some rough years due to that SP DM, but using the tek we overcame and now it's all good, now plz give me $300 for the comm course." it's a convenient way to write off decades of terrible PR and the cult label.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Good thought TAJ!

Awww... Thanks for a good challenge for us all to be more mature and pro-social in our communications with and about each other TAJ, thank you...

Transparency and "sunshine" are a very good thing in ANY group.

 

[freet43]

Well, sweetness. Hear Hear! Another breathe of fresh air from you. Thank you!

Marina

Annoying, isn't it? Just be aware, everyone, that if you are responding to the appearance of what happened, there was more going on behind the scenes that wasn't evident. This accounts for a little bit of the histrionics and paranoid freakouts that we have witnessed lately. And yes, I do use that word "freakout" with intent and purpose...does it resonate with anyone here? Try and stay centered and calm, all those who were really upset by anything that's been said or done or happened lately. Don't add to chaos and consternation, if you can help it.

Over a year ago I said that the majority of the com and action on this board was in back channel chatter, and a prominent Aussie member took great offense at my observing that publicly... it's a little more clearly and easily seen now, isn't it?

Yes, we have the ubiquitous OSA ops, which are mostly like little annoying gnats buzzing around us, that get our attention every so often... Once in a rare while, one flies up your nose and really annoys for a second until you can snort it out and then feel disgusted by it for a moment, but then you take a deep calming breath and just go forward with life and focus on what you were doing just before it happened. Most of the time, all is well here on this board, in spite of their best efforts against the collective here. No matter what our individual differences, we are all pretty much solidly united in the desire to expose and end the horrible abuses of the so-called "Church of Scientology", as quickly as possible, for the sake of humanity. We are closer and closer to achieving this goal all the time, and it is ALL of our collective efforts that is accomplishing this... Please keep that in mind when you get perturbed about someone or something.

Also, we never know what else is going on in real life with our members here, what outside stresses or challenges may be affecting them at any given moment. Life can be very hard at times in spite of the best circumstances, and many of our members are not living with the best of circumstances, as they are recovering from their cult involvement.

So it really is kinder and wiser not to contribute fuel to the fire of someone's seeming meltdown, or being roasted by others here.

If you are doing o.k. in life right now, thank Goodness for that! Please keep in mind that others are not. Please do the best you can to muster up a little compassion for other members here who may not be having as easy a time as you are at the moment. If they are being cranky or rude or suspicious or whatever...maybe there is good reason for it! Try and cut them a little more slack.

Just be aware folks, before you jump in and pile on with criticism or flaming of someone's behavior or communication here, that there is usually more going on than meets the eye, in more ways than one.

We have rules here, and Mods and Administrators to enforce the rules, and it's best to try and abide by them. If you really feel that you can't do that, then take your marbles and go play somewhere else. It's a big world, with a lot of games in it. Have fun! Create a great life for yourself and your family! Go out and do some good in the world!

 

[Auditor's Toad]

I'm just adding butter to my popcorn as I read......

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Thank You, Free, for the very nice ack! I appreciate it!

 

[Terril park]

Never mind Dex, it could be anyone. Here's two - would you like more?

HCOPL 27 March, 1972, Counter Attack Tactics

HCOPL 7 March, 1965, Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology: the Fair Game Law

The first mentioned on the net has been as far as I can tell in all cases
been taken of probably re copyright concerns. See if you can find fair use quotes to support your thesis. Its a confidental policy not in green vols.

The second is in the green vols. The act of a COS agent spending several years auditing in the FZ/ Indepedent/splinter groups is committing many suppressive acts. This PL very specifically spells this out. It does no where endorse such actions.

 

[olska]

So ... in order to join the "cool kids" and be privy to the REAL information and the REAL discussions happening on the "back channel," does one just wait and hope for the special invitation to undergo the ritual initiation that earns you the key to the club?

Or is there a magick word or phrase that you type and then door opens giving you access to this secret world?

Or maybe when you reach a certain number of posts, suddenly a whole new level opens up for you, like in a video game?

Or are certain people just "born to it" while the unwashed, uneducated masses are left to content themselves with the crumbs and leftovers put out on the public board, and get their hands slapped if they dare ask for more?

If people want to use the internet to gossip amongst themselves in private "in-crowd" circles, then I can think of no reason they should be prevented from doing so -- there must be thousands and thousands of "private" chat groups where this kind of activity takes place every minute of every day of every year.

What I don't get is why people would bring all that mystery and "hidden data line" to the PUBLIC part of what is PRESENTED as an OPEN forum with few if any limits on who can participate (in the public part); and then when we try to somehow make sense of it, have hissy fits and chastise us and/or subject us to long insulting lectures on "social behavior" -- as though we were children or primitives.

This is not middle school, is it?

Or did I mistakenly click the wrong link when I thought I was entering a forum where grown-ups come to PUBLICLY discuss their experience, their views, and their opinions on the subject of scientology?

 

[freet43]

What some don't realize is that nothing one posts "privately" is ever private.

And, that is what occurred recently here on ESMB - a "private" message to friends on facebook was copied and posted by a "friend" on to ESMB....

All kinds of hell broke loose after that.

As far as anything being private? - the best approach, I've found, is to consider anything one sends as a pm or email or message on facebook is the same as broadcasting it to the whole world....as that is what could easily happen, and often does.

First off, all list and forum owners can read all messages on their boards. Whether they do or not, or what they do with the info, is up to the owners. One should just be aware of that whenever one posts on the net. That's just the way it is.

And, anything pmed or emailed can be copied and pasted and forwarded to anyone else.... Just because one personally may never do that without permission, does not mean that others will follow the same courtesy.

Marina

So ... in order to join the "cool kids" and be privy to the REAL information and the REAL discussions happening on the "back channel," does one just wait and hope for the special invitation to undergo the ritual initiation that earns you the key to the club?

Or is there a magick word or phrase that you type and then door opens giving you access to this secret world?

Or maybe when you reach a certain number of posts, suddenly a whole new level opens up for you, like in a video game?

Or are certain people just "born to it" while the unwashed, uneducated masses are left to content themselves with the crumbs and leftovers put out on the public board, and get their hands slapped if they dare ask for more?

If people want to use the internet to gossip amongst themselves in private "in-crowd" circles, then I can think of no reason they should be prevented from doing so -- there must be thousands and thousands of "private" chat groups where this kind of activity takes place every minute of every day of every year.

What I don't get is why people would bring all that mystery and "hidden data line" to the PUBLIC part of what is PRESENTED as an OPEN forum with few if any limits on who can participate (in the public part); and then when we try to somehow make sense of it, have hissy fits and chastise us and/or subject us to long insulting lectures on "social behavior" -- as though we were children or primitives.

This is not middle school, is it?

Or did I mistakenly click the wrong link when I thought I was entering a forum where grown-ups come to PUBLICLY discuss their experience, their views, and their opinions on the subject of scientology?

 

[Student of Trinity]

A lot of the appeal of Scientology seems to be in the ego trip it offers. Especially the Sea Org. You may get treated like dirt, but you also get to think of yourself as superior to most of humanity. In fact, the worse they treat you, the more you'll probably want to remind yourself how superior you are, as a way of coping. They hammer the nail in.

If you leave the Sea Org, though, especially from any sort of prominent position, you can have a sort of methadone to help you cope with the ego trip withdrawal. You can become a Prominent Sea Org Escapee. Someone Important!

A lot of hugger-mugger, cloak-and-dagger nonsense about plots and plants and persecution could certainly go along with this. And that's true even if there is some real, non-nonsensical persecution, to some extent.

I'm not saying everyone who leaves the Sea Org is on a continuing ego trip. I'm saying, I think it must be a strong temptation. Maybe it's just too hard for most people to give up the ego bloat, except 'on a gradient'. I guess the right thing to do is just to expect it, and try to make allowances for it. But at some point other people have to say, You don't have those bars on your shoulders anymore, and I don't believe in them anymore, anyway. Maybe that's part of the recovery process, on both sides.