Glasgow Documentary about Scientology
- Thread starter Fynn
- Start date
Megalomaniac
Silver Meritorious Patron
Some questions for you Alex:
How would you describe Anonymous? Do you see them as doing more harm than good?
-mac
How would you describe Anonymous? Do you see them as doing more harm than good?
What could Flynn do, in his film about Anonymous, to put the words of Scientologists in a context that did reflect their feelings and wishes? Or, if this is impossible, would you recommend that Flynn leave out all statements by Scientologists, or simply not make the film at all?
What is that good reason?
Please recommend an overview.
-mac
Some very good points, Thank you
If anyone would like to talk about this in front of a camera I am making this documentary. Alex? anyone?
...in response, Scientology is something that people should have awareness of. If more people did then they would not be able to act in the ways that they do.
My film is focused on the truth of Scientology and the international group that stands against it. Anonymous has a worthy cause if I have ever heard of one.
If by showing the truth about what Scientology does and how is labelled as propaganda I would say that that is a win for Scientology.
Some information I will be including in my documentary is below. As we all know I will probably not get Scientology to participate so I shall use their own written doctrines while documenting anonymous, their cause and their message. Some but not all of the quotes below I shall use....enjoy. and please contact me if you can contribute to my documentary. I am sure many of you have something worthwhile to add.
Your feedback is much appreciated. 'Let us educate before, not after.' Thank you. oh and sorry for such a long post.
Question 1
What is Scientology?
Scientology quote:
Quoted from "My Philosophy" by Hubbard
The first principle of my own philosophy is that wisdom is meant for anyone who wishes to reach for it. It is the servant of the commoner and king alike and should never be regarded with awe.
The second principle of my own philosophy is that it must be capable of being applied.
The third principle is that any philosophic knowledge is only valuable if it is true or if it works.
These three principles are so strange to the field of philosophy, that I have given my philosophy a name: SCIENTOLOGY. This means only "knowing how to know."
A philosophy can only be a route to knowledge. It cannot be crammed down one’s throat. If one has a route, he can then find what is true for him. And that is Scientology.
Know thyself...and the truth shall set you free.
Therefore, in Scientology, we are not concerned with individual actions and differences. We are only concerned with how to show man how he can set himself free.
L. Ron Hubbard - Founder of Scientology
“Scientology is defined as the study and handling of the spirit in relationship to itself, universes and other life.” - http://www.scientology.org/religion/catechism/index.html
“Scientology is a religion that offers a precise path leading to a complete and certain understanding of one’s true spiritual nature and of one’s relationship with self, family, groups, mankind, all life forms, the material universe, the spiritual universe and the Supreme Being, or infinity.” - http://www.scientology.org/religion/catechism/index.html
"Scientology and all the other cults are one-dimensional, and we live in a three-dimensional world. Cults are as dangerous as drugs. They commit the highest crime: the rape of the soul." L. Ron Hubbard Jr. – June 1983 Penthouse Magazine
“When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe—never permit an “open-minded” approach. If they’re going to quit, let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they’re aboard; and if they’re aboard, they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us—win or die in the attempt.” Page 41, paragraph 5 – The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology By L. Ron Hubbard Volume XIV THE O.T. LEVELS
The proper instruction attitude is, “You’re here so you’re a Scientologist. Now we’re going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens. We’d rather have you dead than incapable.” Page 42, paragraph 1 – The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology By L. Ron Hubbard Volume XIV THE O.T. LEVELS
Getting the correct technology applied consists of
One: Having the correct technology.
Two: Knowing the technology.
Three: Knowing it is correct.
Four: Teaching correctly the correct technology.
Five: Applying the technology.
Six: Seeing that the technology is correctly applied.
Seven: Hammering out of existence incorrect technology.
Eight: Knocking out incorrect applications.
Nine: Closing the door on any possibility of incorrect technology.
Ten: Closing the door on incorrect application.
See that Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten above are ruthlessly followed and we will never be stopped. Relax them, get reasonable about it and we will perish.
Page 37/39, paragraph 1 – The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology By L. Ron Hubbard Volume XIV THE O.T. LEVELS
Ethics actions are often used to handle down individual statistics. A person who is not doing his job becomes an Ethics target. Conversely, if a person is doing his job (and his statistic will show that) Ethics is considered to be in and the person is protected by Ethics...We are not in the business of being good boys and girls. We’re in the business of going free and getting the org production roaring. Therefore if a staff member is getting production up by having his own statistic excellent, Ethics sure isn’t interested. But if a staff member isn’t producing, shown by his bad statistic for his post, Ethics is fascinated with his smallest misdemeanor. In short a staff member can get away with murder so long as his statistic is up and can’t sneeze without a chop if it’s down.
Page 474/475, OEC Volume 1: HCO
Question 2
What is Anonymous?
Scientology quote:
"The actions of Anonymous will not interrupt the church's normal activities serving its parishioners and the community, and the church is working in co-ordination with local authorities to minimize the negative impact of this mask-wearing, cyber-terrorist group." Janet Laveau, Scientology member - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7237862.stm
Question 3
What is Scientology’s ‘Fair Game Policy’?
Scientology Quote:
SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.» — L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL of 18 October 1967, "PENALTIES FOR LOWER CONDITIONS"
CANCELLATION OF FAIR GAME: The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME
will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad public relations.
This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP. [From HCO P/L
21 October 1968, Volume 1, page 489.]
HIGH CRIMES. These are covered in HCO Policy Letters March 7, 1965, Issues I
and II, and consist of publicly departing Scientology or committing Suppressive Acts.
Cancellation of Certificates, Classifications and Awards and becoming fair game are
amongst the penalties which can be leveled for this type of offense as well as those recom-
mended by Committees of Evidence.
OEC Volume 1: HCO
What is an SP in Scientology?
Scientology quote:
A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind as Scientologists and actions taken against them are not punishable under Scientology Ethics Codes.» — L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL of 23 December 1965, "Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists"
Due to the extreme urgency of our mission I have worked to remove some of the fun-
damental barriers from our progress.
The chief stumbling block, huge above all others, is the upset we have with
POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCES and their relationship to Suppressive Persons or
Groups.
A POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCE is defined as a person who while active in Scientology or a pc yet remains connected to a person or group that is a Suppressive Person or Group.
A SUPPRESSIVE PERSON or GROUP is one that actively seeks to suppress or damage Scientology or a Scientologist by Suppressive Acts.
SUPPRESSIVE ACTS are acts calculated to impede or destroy Scientology or a Scientologist and which are listed at length in this policy letter.
OEC Volume 1: HCO 1965
A Suppressive Person or Group becomes “fair game”.
By FAIR GAME is meant, may not be further protected by the codes and disciplines
of Scientology or the rights of a Scientologist.
UPPRESSIVE ACTS
Suppressive Acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce or impede Scientology or Scientologists.
Such Suppressive Acts include public disavowal of Scientology or Scientologists in good standing with Scientology Organizations; public statements against Scientology or Scientologists but not to Committees of Evidence duly convened; proposing, advising or voting for legislation or ordinances, rules or laws directed toward the Suppression of Scientology;
pronouncing Scientologists guilty of the practice of standard Scientology; testifying hostilely before state or public inquiries into Scientology to suppress it; reporting or threatening to re-
port Scientology or Scientologists to civil authorities in an effort to suppress Scientology or Scientologists from practicing or receiving standard Scientology; bringing civil suit against
any Scientology organization or Scientologist including the nonpayment of bills or failure to refund without first calling the matter to the attention of the Chairman at Saint Hill and re-
ceiving a reply; demanding the return of any or all fees paid for standard training or processing actually received or received in part and still available but undelivered only because of
departure of the person demanding (the fees must be refunded but this Policy Letter applies);
writing anti-Scientology letters to the press or giving antiScientology or anti-Scientologist evidence to the press; testifying as a hostile witness against Scientology in public; continued
membership in a divergent group; continued adherence to a person or group pronounced a Suppressive Person or Group by HCO; failure to handle or disavow and disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of Suppressive Acts; being at the hire of anti-Scientology groups
or persons; organizing a splinter group to use Scientology data or any part of it to distract people from standard Scientology; organizing splinter groups to diverge from Scientology
practices, still calling it Scientology or calling it something else; calling meetings of staffs or field auditors or the public to deliver Scientology into the hands of unauthorized persons or
[persons] who will suppress it or alter it or who have no reputation for following standard lines and procedures; infiltrating a Scientology group or organization or staff to stir up dis-
content or protest at the instigation of hostile forces; 1st degree murder, arson, disintegration of persons or belongings; mutiny; seeking to splinter off an area of Scientology and deny it
properly constituted authority for personal profit, personal power or “to save the organization from the higher officers of Scientology”; engaging in malicious rumourmongering to destroy
the authority or repute of higher officers or the leading names of Scientology or to “safe guard” a position; delivering up the person of a Scientologist without defense or protest to the
demands of civil or criminal law; falsifying records that then imperil the liberty or safety of a
Scientologist; knowingly giving false testimony to imperil a Scientologist; receiving money,
favours or encouragement to suppress Scientology or Scientologists; sexual or sexually per-
verted conduct contrary to the well being or good state of mind of a Scientologist in good
standing or under the charge of Scientology such as a student, a preclear, a ward or a patient;
blackmail of Scientologists or Scientology organizations threatened or accomplished – in
which case the crime being used for blackmail purposes becomes fully outside the reach of
Ethics and is absolved by the fact of blackmail unless repeated.
Suppressive Acts are clearly those covert or overt acts knowingly calculated to reduce or destroy the influence or activities of Scientology or prevent case gains or continued Scientology success and activity on the part of a Scientologist. As persons or groups that would do such a thing act out of self interest only to the detriment of all others, they cannot be granted the rights and beingness ordinarily accorded rational beings and so place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings or well being.
OEC Volume 1: HCO 1965
It does not make sense to extend the protection of the group to the person seeking to destroy the group. That’s like encouraging a disease. Hence we have a Fair Game Law.
OEC Volume 1: HCO 1965
What is Disconnection?
Scientology quote:
Disconnection from a family member or cessation of adherence to a Suppressive Person or Group is done by the Potential Trouble Source publicly publishing the fact, as in the legal notices of “The Auditor” and public announcements and taking any required civil action such as disavowal, separation or divorce and thereafter cutting all further communication and disassociating from the person or group.
Unwarranted or threatened disconnection has the recourse of the person or group being disconnected from requesting a Committee of Evidence from the nearest Convening Authority (or HCO) and producing to the Committee any evidence of actual material assistance to Scientology without reservation or bad intent. The Committee must be convened if requested.
Before publicly disconnecting, the Scientologist would be we’ll advised to fully inform the person he or she accuses of Suppressive Acts of the substance of this policy letter and seek a reform of the person, disconnecting only when honest efforts to reform the person have not been co-operated with or have failed. And only then disconnecting publicly. Such efforts should not be unduly long as any processing of the Potential Trouble Source is denied or illegal while the connection exists and a person not actively seeking to settle the matter may be subjected to a Committee of Evidence if processed meanwhile.
The real motives of Suppressive Persons have been traced to quite sordid hidden desires – in one case the wife wanted her husband’s death so she could get his money, and fought Scientology because it was making the husband well. Without handling the wife or the connection with the woman the Scientologist, as family, drifted on with the situation and the wife was able to cause a near destruction of Scientology in that area by false testimony to the police and government and press. Therefore this is a serious thing – to tolerate or remain connected to a source of active suppression of a Scientologist or Scientology without legally disconnecting the relationship or acting to expose the true motives behind the hostility and reform the person. No money particularly may be accepted as fee or loan from a person who is “family” to a Suppressive Person and therefore a Potential Trouble Source. There is no source of trouble in Scientology’s history greater than this one for frequency and lack of attention. Anyone absolved of Suppressive Acts by an amnesty or a Committee of Evidence ceases to be fair game. Anyone found guilty of Suppressive Acts by a Committee of Evidence and its Convening Authorities remains fair game unless saved by an amnesty. This Policy Letter is calculated to prevent future distractions of this nature as time
goes on.
If anyone would like to talk about this in front of a camera I am making this documentary. Alex? anyone?
...in response, Scientology is something that people should have awareness of. If more people did then they would not be able to act in the ways that they do.
My film is focused on the truth of Scientology and the international group that stands against it. Anonymous has a worthy cause if I have ever heard of one.
If by showing the truth about what Scientology does and how is labelled as propaganda I would say that that is a win for Scientology.
Some information I will be including in my documentary is below. As we all know I will probably not get Scientology to participate so I shall use their own written doctrines while documenting anonymous, their cause and their message. Some but not all of the quotes below I shall use....enjoy. and please contact me if you can contribute to my documentary. I am sure many of you have something worthwhile to add.
Your feedback is much appreciated. 'Let us educate before, not after.' Thank you. oh and sorry for such a long post.
Question 1
What is Scientology?
Scientology quote:
Quoted from "My Philosophy" by Hubbard
The first principle of my own philosophy is that wisdom is meant for anyone who wishes to reach for it. It is the servant of the commoner and king alike and should never be regarded with awe.
The second principle of my own philosophy is that it must be capable of being applied.
The third principle is that any philosophic knowledge is only valuable if it is true or if it works.
These three principles are so strange to the field of philosophy, that I have given my philosophy a name: SCIENTOLOGY. This means only "knowing how to know."
A philosophy can only be a route to knowledge. It cannot be crammed down one’s throat. If one has a route, he can then find what is true for him. And that is Scientology.
Know thyself...and the truth shall set you free.
Therefore, in Scientology, we are not concerned with individual actions and differences. We are only concerned with how to show man how he can set himself free.
L. Ron Hubbard - Founder of Scientology
“Scientology is defined as the study and handling of the spirit in relationship to itself, universes and other life.” - http://www.scientology.org/religion/catechism/index.html
“Scientology is a religion that offers a precise path leading to a complete and certain understanding of one’s true spiritual nature and of one’s relationship with self, family, groups, mankind, all life forms, the material universe, the spiritual universe and the Supreme Being, or infinity.” - http://www.scientology.org/religion/catechism/index.html
"Scientology and all the other cults are one-dimensional, and we live in a three-dimensional world. Cults are as dangerous as drugs. They commit the highest crime: the rape of the soul." L. Ron Hubbard Jr. – June 1983 Penthouse Magazine
“When somebody enrolls, consider he or she has joined up for the duration of the universe—never permit an “open-minded” approach. If they’re going to quit, let them quit fast. If they enrolled, they’re aboard; and if they’re aboard, they’re here on the same terms as the rest of us—win or die in the attempt.” Page 41, paragraph 5 – The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology By L. Ron Hubbard Volume XIV THE O.T. LEVELS
The proper instruction attitude is, “You’re here so you’re a Scientologist. Now we’re going to make you into an expert auditor no matter what happens. We’d rather have you dead than incapable.” Page 42, paragraph 1 – The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology By L. Ron Hubbard Volume XIV THE O.T. LEVELS
Getting the correct technology applied consists of
One: Having the correct technology.
Two: Knowing the technology.
Three: Knowing it is correct.
Four: Teaching correctly the correct technology.
Five: Applying the technology.
Six: Seeing that the technology is correctly applied.
Seven: Hammering out of existence incorrect technology.
Eight: Knocking out incorrect applications.
Nine: Closing the door on any possibility of incorrect technology.
Ten: Closing the door on incorrect application.
See that Seven, Eight, Nine and Ten above are ruthlessly followed and we will never be stopped. Relax them, get reasonable about it and we will perish.
Page 37/39, paragraph 1 – The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology By L. Ron Hubbard Volume XIV THE O.T. LEVELS
Ethics actions are often used to handle down individual statistics. A person who is not doing his job becomes an Ethics target. Conversely, if a person is doing his job (and his statistic will show that) Ethics is considered to be in and the person is protected by Ethics...We are not in the business of being good boys and girls. We’re in the business of going free and getting the org production roaring. Therefore if a staff member is getting production up by having his own statistic excellent, Ethics sure isn’t interested. But if a staff member isn’t producing, shown by his bad statistic for his post, Ethics is fascinated with his smallest misdemeanor. In short a staff member can get away with murder so long as his statistic is up and can’t sneeze without a chop if it’s down.
Page 474/475, OEC Volume 1: HCO
Question 2
What is Anonymous?
Scientology quote:
"The actions of Anonymous will not interrupt the church's normal activities serving its parishioners and the community, and the church is working in co-ordination with local authorities to minimize the negative impact of this mask-wearing, cyber-terrorist group." Janet Laveau, Scientology member - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7237862.stm
Question 3
What is Scientology’s ‘Fair Game Policy’?
Scientology Quote:
SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.» — L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL of 18 October 1967, "PENALTIES FOR LOWER CONDITIONS"
CANCELLATION OF FAIR GAME: The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME
will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad public relations.
This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP. [From HCO P/L
21 October 1968, Volume 1, page 489.]
HIGH CRIMES. These are covered in HCO Policy Letters March 7, 1965, Issues I
and II, and consist of publicly departing Scientology or committing Suppressive Acts.
Cancellation of Certificates, Classifications and Awards and becoming fair game are
amongst the penalties which can be leveled for this type of offense as well as those recom-
mended by Committees of Evidence.
OEC Volume 1: HCO
What is an SP in Scientology?
Scientology quote:
A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind as Scientologists and actions taken against them are not punishable under Scientology Ethics Codes.» — L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL of 23 December 1965, "Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists"
Due to the extreme urgency of our mission I have worked to remove some of the fun-
damental barriers from our progress.
The chief stumbling block, huge above all others, is the upset we have with
POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCES and their relationship to Suppressive Persons or
Groups.
A POTENTIAL TROUBLE SOURCE is defined as a person who while active in Scientology or a pc yet remains connected to a person or group that is a Suppressive Person or Group.
A SUPPRESSIVE PERSON or GROUP is one that actively seeks to suppress or damage Scientology or a Scientologist by Suppressive Acts.
SUPPRESSIVE ACTS are acts calculated to impede or destroy Scientology or a Scientologist and which are listed at length in this policy letter.
OEC Volume 1: HCO 1965
A Suppressive Person or Group becomes “fair game”.
By FAIR GAME is meant, may not be further protected by the codes and disciplines
of Scientology or the rights of a Scientologist.
UPPRESSIVE ACTS
Suppressive Acts are defined as actions or omissions undertaken to knowingly suppress, reduce or impede Scientology or Scientologists.
Such Suppressive Acts include public disavowal of Scientology or Scientologists in good standing with Scientology Organizations; public statements against Scientology or Scientologists but not to Committees of Evidence duly convened; proposing, advising or voting for legislation or ordinances, rules or laws directed toward the Suppression of Scientology;
pronouncing Scientologists guilty of the practice of standard Scientology; testifying hostilely before state or public inquiries into Scientology to suppress it; reporting or threatening to re-
port Scientology or Scientologists to civil authorities in an effort to suppress Scientology or Scientologists from practicing or receiving standard Scientology; bringing civil suit against
any Scientology organization or Scientologist including the nonpayment of bills or failure to refund without first calling the matter to the attention of the Chairman at Saint Hill and re-
ceiving a reply; demanding the return of any or all fees paid for standard training or processing actually received or received in part and still available but undelivered only because of
departure of the person demanding (the fees must be refunded but this Policy Letter applies);
writing anti-Scientology letters to the press or giving antiScientology or anti-Scientologist evidence to the press; testifying as a hostile witness against Scientology in public; continued
membership in a divergent group; continued adherence to a person or group pronounced a Suppressive Person or Group by HCO; failure to handle or disavow and disconnect from a person demonstrably guilty of Suppressive Acts; being at the hire of anti-Scientology groups
or persons; organizing a splinter group to use Scientology data or any part of it to distract people from standard Scientology; organizing splinter groups to diverge from Scientology
practices, still calling it Scientology or calling it something else; calling meetings of staffs or field auditors or the public to deliver Scientology into the hands of unauthorized persons or
[persons] who will suppress it or alter it or who have no reputation for following standard lines and procedures; infiltrating a Scientology group or organization or staff to stir up dis-
content or protest at the instigation of hostile forces; 1st degree murder, arson, disintegration of persons or belongings; mutiny; seeking to splinter off an area of Scientology and deny it
properly constituted authority for personal profit, personal power or “to save the organization from the higher officers of Scientology”; engaging in malicious rumourmongering to destroy
the authority or repute of higher officers or the leading names of Scientology or to “safe guard” a position; delivering up the person of a Scientologist without defense or protest to the
demands of civil or criminal law; falsifying records that then imperil the liberty or safety of a
Scientologist; knowingly giving false testimony to imperil a Scientologist; receiving money,
favours or encouragement to suppress Scientology or Scientologists; sexual or sexually per-
verted conduct contrary to the well being or good state of mind of a Scientologist in good
standing or under the charge of Scientology such as a student, a preclear, a ward or a patient;
blackmail of Scientologists or Scientology organizations threatened or accomplished – in
which case the crime being used for blackmail purposes becomes fully outside the reach of
Ethics and is absolved by the fact of blackmail unless repeated.
Suppressive Acts are clearly those covert or overt acts knowingly calculated to reduce or destroy the influence or activities of Scientology or prevent case gains or continued Scientology success and activity on the part of a Scientologist. As persons or groups that would do such a thing act out of self interest only to the detriment of all others, they cannot be granted the rights and beingness ordinarily accorded rational beings and so place themselves beyond any consideration for their feelings or well being.
OEC Volume 1: HCO 1965
It does not make sense to extend the protection of the group to the person seeking to destroy the group. That’s like encouraging a disease. Hence we have a Fair Game Law.
OEC Volume 1: HCO 1965
What is Disconnection?
Scientology quote:
Disconnection from a family member or cessation of adherence to a Suppressive Person or Group is done by the Potential Trouble Source publicly publishing the fact, as in the legal notices of “The Auditor” and public announcements and taking any required civil action such as disavowal, separation or divorce and thereafter cutting all further communication and disassociating from the person or group.
Unwarranted or threatened disconnection has the recourse of the person or group being disconnected from requesting a Committee of Evidence from the nearest Convening Authority (or HCO) and producing to the Committee any evidence of actual material assistance to Scientology without reservation or bad intent. The Committee must be convened if requested.
Before publicly disconnecting, the Scientologist would be we’ll advised to fully inform the person he or she accuses of Suppressive Acts of the substance of this policy letter and seek a reform of the person, disconnecting only when honest efforts to reform the person have not been co-operated with or have failed. And only then disconnecting publicly. Such efforts should not be unduly long as any processing of the Potential Trouble Source is denied or illegal while the connection exists and a person not actively seeking to settle the matter may be subjected to a Committee of Evidence if processed meanwhile.
The real motives of Suppressive Persons have been traced to quite sordid hidden desires – in one case the wife wanted her husband’s death so she could get his money, and fought Scientology because it was making the husband well. Without handling the wife or the connection with the woman the Scientologist, as family, drifted on with the situation and the wife was able to cause a near destruction of Scientology in that area by false testimony to the police and government and press. Therefore this is a serious thing – to tolerate or remain connected to a source of active suppression of a Scientologist or Scientology without legally disconnecting the relationship or acting to expose the true motives behind the hostility and reform the person. No money particularly may be accepted as fee or loan from a person who is “family” to a Suppressive Person and therefore a Potential Trouble Source. There is no source of trouble in Scientology’s history greater than this one for frequency and lack of attention. Anyone absolved of Suppressive Acts by an amnesty or a Committee of Evidence ceases to be fair game. Anyone found guilty of Suppressive Acts by a Committee of Evidence and its Convening Authorities remains fair game unless saved by an amnesty. This Policy Letter is calculated to prevent future distractions of this nature as time
goes on.
alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
As much as I would love to, Alex is a pseudonym and I choose to remain anonymous. Perhaps the perspective from someone in the freezone on the truths and abuses of "scientology" would be helpful? I am certain you will not get a church member.
..."the truth of Scientology"? You mean the abuses of the CHURCH? The picture is bigger than the abuses. Why do you think people remain in the church? Do you think the abuses you hear about on the web are the normal daily experiences of scientologists? If so you have no clue. Yes there are abuses, but they ARE NOT the common experience of scientologists.
My personal opinion is that the CHURCH and its leadership have strayed far from the intent and teachings of Scientology the philosophy, so in some degree I support examination.
By focusing on the abuses, your "truth", and the protestors, you paint a one sided picture of a much more complex thing. And by doing so, do not serve the truth, but in fact, consciously or not, aid in obsfucating it.
Truth is the whole of it, not some subset of provable facts.
Great. Context is important, some of the things said there, without the context in which they are said could be taken in a way that is not how a scientologist would see them.
But in proper context, I have no problems with anything Hubbard said. Framing is the key.
alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
Anonymous would like to be leaderless and all inclusive, but in reality has leaders, in the form of people who go out and do stuff and whom others follow, rather than any sort of authoritarian structure. The anons who are forming a core of anti scientology common purpose are somewhat unwilling to discuss and debate issues having already made up their minds. A fitting juxtoposition to the church!
Anonymous does seem to be fairly grass roots, and spontaneous. And it does have many people of good will and sincere interest in change for the better.
Time will tell on the harm vs good....
Interview real scientologists (perhaps freezone?) and take their input on how it is edited and presented so as to accurately reflect their feelings. (no I didnt say give them a percetage of the gross! but I know the edit suite is where a film is made...there's a bizarre notion, collaboration with scientologists....)
Historically journalists seek the controversy rather than the praise....and scientology is easy to find controversy in. Scientology has not gotten the kind of examination that would benefit the audience, but rather sensational, and shallow coverage. Hubbard correctly decided that the publicity value of press coverage was outwayed by the incorrect impressions left from it.
First, I think it is important to see the philosophy and teachings as something distinct and different from the Church of Scientology, which thinks it owns them.
The church has a culture that grew out of a variety of factors, some inbedded in the "tech" and policy, and others based on the personalities of the various people of influence in it.
It has become apparent to me that some of the worst aspects of people have come to the fore and contributed to the culture of the church, ironically in direct contradiction to the aims and intent of the technology they support.
alex
SchwimmelPuckel
Genuine Meatball
Well, Alex.. I think it's Tommy Davis' job to promote the praising view of $cientology... No one, not employed by the cults PR bureaux, has this responsibility.
But I realize that the cult would LURVE to have the media praise them... But recall that Dianetics and Scientology has had 50 years to prove it's merit. They have 'proven' a lot of other objectionable stuff, with 'merit' conspicuously missing.
Fact is that Scientology does not deserve praise or recognition!
The cult could be said to have failed it's own 'conditions' in relation to humanity. Bungled 'non existence' early on, by throwing it's weight around. Working diligently ever since to perpetuate the 'enemy condition'
But I realize that the cult would LURVE to have the media praise them... But recall that Dianetics and Scientology has had 50 years to prove it's merit. They have 'proven' a lot of other objectionable stuff, with 'merit' conspicuously missing.
Fact is that Scientology does not deserve praise or recognition!
The cult could be said to have failed it's own 'conditions' in relation to humanity. Bungled 'non existence' early on, by throwing it's weight around. Working diligently ever since to perpetuate the 'enemy condition'
alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
Of course not. I don't expect a balanced overview from an interested party.
Wisened One
Crusader
to ESMB, Flynn! You said 'you will need to be available for filming in Glasgow'....I'm available for being filmed in Glasgow!
Are ya flyin' us over to do it?
(Hey, Can't blame me for tryin', lol! :confused2:
)
Last edited:
You said 'you will need to be available for filming in Glasgow....I'm available for being filmed in Glasgow!
Are ya flyin' us over to do it?
(Hey, Can't blame me for tryin', lol! :confused2:
You forgot to ask for hotel accommodation too!
I am not a journalist, nor a journalism student.
"But in proper context, I have no problems with anything Hubbard said"
???
The context is explained in the documents. In the recordings. By Hubbard himself. Any other context then that...is one which you make up yourself.
If you believe that anything can be fair and balanced then I think you misunderstand the medium. One can try.
Education is the key. Knowledge will protect people. How are we to raise awareness if people such as yourself do not support people like me?
If you want to learn about a religion you read their writings. You talk to those that attend. This is doable with any religion I can name without having to join or go undercover. Fair, balanced, open...Scientology?
Thank you again for your interesting comments.
"But in proper context, I have no problems with anything Hubbard said"
???
The context is explained in the documents. In the recordings. By Hubbard himself. Any other context then that...is one which you make up yourself.
If you believe that anything can be fair and balanced then I think you misunderstand the medium. One can try.
Education is the key. Knowledge will protect people. How are we to raise awareness if people such as yourself do not support people like me?
If you want to learn about a religion you read their writings. You talk to those that attend. This is doable with any religion I can name without having to join or go undercover. Fair, balanced, open...Scientology?
Thank you again for your interesting comments.
mickturate
Patron
Alex is indeed undercover
under the covers with O$A!
I lurve the 'answers' $he DOESN'T give re $ciloontology: they are always grey/meaningless
$he cannot respond in any honest/meaningful way without running it thru' the filter of the 'con goes on'
yep: right that no individual $cilon will be in your documentary without say so from the PR = O$A part of teh cult.
$he herself cannot without breaking her 'cover'
my Q. is that breaking her O$A cover? or her individ. $cilon cover???
& yet & yet: $he cannot bring herself to recognise how utterly revealing this is: what religion would outcast/ostracise/turn on ANY of its followers for suggesting that *possibly* just *possibly* that the Ovar 9000 Anonymous protesters may have a point or two to make???
for her to hold that Q. in a meaningful/insightful way would create cognitive dissonance & so $he transposes it to Anons = haet, $cilons are good & YOU: cannot possibly understand...
& you wonder why Anons raid, demonstrate???
we wanna help, oh & have some lulz too!
BTW
Q: how is being covered in vaseline & pubes anything other than a prank?
A: when O$A gets to distort realities!
when
BTW if you make it to other parts of the UK....I'd give you an interview, as Cap'n Crunch, Pyrate, Santa or????
under the covers with O$A!
I lurve the 'answers' $he DOESN'T give re $ciloontology: they are always grey/meaningless
$he cannot respond in any honest/meaningful way without running it thru' the filter of the 'con goes on'
yep: right that no individual $cilon will be in your documentary without say so from the PR = O$A part of teh cult.
$he herself cannot without breaking her 'cover'
my Q. is that breaking her O$A cover? or her individ. $cilon cover???
& yet & yet: $he cannot bring herself to recognise how utterly revealing this is: what religion would outcast/ostracise/turn on ANY of its followers for suggesting that *possibly* just *possibly* that the Ovar 9000 Anonymous protesters may have a point or two to make???
for her to hold that Q. in a meaningful/insightful way would create cognitive dissonance & so $he transposes it to Anons = haet, $cilons are good & YOU: cannot possibly understand...
& you wonder why Anons raid, demonstrate???
we wanna help, oh & have some lulz too!
BTW
Q: how is being covered in vaseline & pubes anything other than a prank?
A: when O$A gets to distort realities!
when
BTW if you make it to other parts of the UK....I'd give you an interview, as Cap'n Crunch, Pyrate, Santa or????
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alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
There is much written by hubbard that in the context of a few paragraphs can be taken to mean something other than what it would in the context of several pages. "disposed of quietly and without sorrow", "get away with murder" etc...
I dont expect your film to be fair and balanced. I expect it to be lopsided in support of anon, without giving the viewer any insight into why people are in scientology in the first place.
I have said that there are abuses and that there is a cultish aspect to scientology, MY religion.
You do not need to go undercover though, to get a more full understanding of scientology, as the writing of hubbard are broadly available. Taken as a whole, there is much of value in them. Taken in parts, selectively edited to sensational bits, is a distortion.
If you filter and interpret scientology the philosophy, by the actions of the Church of Scientology, you will not present your viewer with the data to fully understand the entrenchment and passion scientologists have for their beliefs. Sadly the Church of Scientology is not the best example of the potential of the philosophy.
Yes I understand your difficulty, getting scientologists to contribute. Its your film, and will reflect your views, and your ability to examine outside of them.
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
OK Alex, the famous "dispose of quietly and without sorrow" quote comes from the book Science of Survival and the quote is discussed in its context here:
http://www.solitarytrees.net/racism/dispose.htm
Feel free to cast it in a better light....
Paul
alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
"Perhaps in some future society..."
Is the context I seem to remember it in.
Then the larger context of just what it means to be a person below 2.0 on the tone scale and how one would interact with his fellows....I would suspect that such a person would tend towards the criminal and the anti social.
Do we not today dispose of such folk?
In crude ways, such as allowing them to live in homeless camps with alcohol or drugs to keep them quiet?
I certainly do realize that many people take this statement of hubbards to mean that anyone who acts below 2.0 should be euthanized...but a full reading of the whole of science of survival would perhaps put it in better light.
Lets try it in a different form. "Perhaps in some future society people who are chronic criminals and unrepentantly anti social will be left with no options other than to accept help to reform their behaviour or be left on the sidelines of life".
Didnt your home country dispose of a lot of folk without much sorrow, creating the boisterous land down under?
alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
"Perhaps in some future society..."
Is the context I seem to remember it in.
Then the larger context of just what it means to be a person below 2.0 on the tone scale and how one would interact with his fellows....I would suspect that such a person would tend towards the criminal, the anti social and the parasite on societies generosity.
Do we not today dispose of such folk?
In crude ways, such as allowing them to live in homeless camps with alcohol or drugs to keep them quiet?
I certainly do realize that many people take this statement of hubbards to mean that anyone who acts below 2.0 should be euthanized...but a full reading of the whole of science of survival would perhaps put it in better light.
Lets try it in a different form. "Perhaps in some future society people who are chronic criminals and unrepentantly anti social will be left with no options other than to accept help to reform their behaviour or be left on the sidelines of life".
Didnt your home country dispose of a lot of folk without much sorrow, creating the boisterous land down under?
Dulloldfart
Squirrel Extraordinaire
Thank you for the response.
I don't know about you, but I've done many hours of "tone scale spotting" drills. Just looking at regular people on the street in 2008/9, like people in a mall shopping, I see very few appearing to be above 2.0. I would think it unfair to label the average person as "chronic criminal and unrepentantly anti social."
Indeed. The UK government is hugely corrupt and criminal, just as the US government is. So what?
Paul
alex
Gold Meritorious Patron
That the average person may be below 2.0 on the tone scale does not make it then unfair to label them such.
Truth is what it is.
If it is indeed the case that "they" are, then perhaps it is us who are in danger of being disposed of quietly and without sorrow?
Getting rid of people is not a solution. Raising the tone of individuals and society is.
I personally have a bit higher estimation of the "average" person than your observations would suggest. Perhaps you see their pictures whereas I see the being?
degraded being
Sponsor
Exactly.
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