How people get "cemented in" to Scientology

[WildKat]

A poster named "Goodbye" just bumped a thread from 2008(!) that I somehow missed when I first came to ESMB. If you never read it, I recommend reading, especially any newbies, lurkers, guests.

It deserves its own thread because it explains a question that never-ins and outsiders can't seem to get.

In this thread Feral explains exactly HOW he got cemented into Scn for decades and failed to question it even in the face of the cognitive dissonance that engulfed him. In short, he had a "win" early on which addressed and handled his ruin, the thing ruining his life. So he set up in his head a world-view of Scientology that said "Scientology=Good, Scientology Saved Me" that was unshakeable and kept him cemented into the cult LONG after he started to notice its evils and failings.

And the kicker was.....are you ready for this....the Big Win he got was NOT even sourced to Hubbard! The win was from Study Tech, which Hubs ripped off and CLAIMED as his own. Here's the clip from that 2008 thread....

Excerpted brilliant quote:

"Something I have noticed is that people that had major difficulties handled in scientology later cling to the tech after ending their affinity with the church as it was the stable data that ended a long term confusion. So it was for me; scientology taught me to read, scarily enough, it was on the student hat course. I cleared almost every third word on that course. But that gave me an unshakable certainty, that this was the way out of the 'trap' that I was told we were all in. I became the fastest student in the academy, I eventually joined staff with my new wife and trained as an auditor.

"This is the doctrine of "the confusion and the stable datum". See, for me in any case, I had a big ruin and a lot of confusion that came with it. The dissem drill plays on this; the FSM (field staff member) or reg asks "what is ruining your life ?" Most "ruins" have a tremendous amount of confusion connected to them, which restimulates at this point, then after listening to the answer the FSM/reg says "scientology can handle that" or some such thing. Confusion and the stable datum. It is much more profound and far reaching when it occurs for real, scientology handled my illiteracy, something which had made me feel very, very stupid for most of my life to that time.

"Now the tech on this, which is covered in several areas of scientology; "FPRD" (the false purpose rundown, which is designed to rid one of their bad intentions) , "the prior confusion" and the "service fac tech" (a service fac is a computation generated by a person to deal with an un-confrontable confusion) states that the postulate prevents the confusion being viewed, and the confusion prevents the postulate (stable data) from lifting. So many years later I endured 15 years of solo nots ( one of scientologys highest levels), without a lot of gain and 13 intensives of FPRD (auditing is sold in 12.5 hour blocks called intensives or "ints") and another 4 ints of sec checking (confessional), all on the 6 month eligibilities, plus traveling to flag about 20 times, all of which I hated, add to that the mind bending ethics trips where kids, with no life experience tell you what is expected and how to run your life, based on your session KRs (a KR is a knowledge report, in scientology one is obliged to write up their knowledge of others out ethics, it applies to auditors as well). I went through all that because I had that stable datum "scientology works" and I could not inspect it after that. The big irony which I have since learned, is that the tech that worked for me, was the life work of a couple by the name of Ava and Charles Berner. Ron had plagiarized it. It was only when writing this, that the penny dropped, it was that win which had cemented my loyalty.

"Later, when one is in scientology, and various insane things are seen in the administration of the cult, a similar mechanism occurs. You explain away each outpoint you see, the group will help you do it too. This is covered in the data series "the brain strains to explain the illogic". Well it is uncomfortable to be in the "island of sanity" and see things far crazier than out on the street. So you look at the SO exec who is screaming at the staff and the failing org or the OTs that fall far short of anything expected and you say "they are just not trained" "they have MUs' "he did his bridge before the GAT". Each of these postulates/ justifications/explanations, call them what you will PREVENT further inspsection of the area, it also stops you keeping count or connecting these things and viewing them in their sheer number.

"Also, when you accept the dogma you know the moment you have any doubts that they are based on your own mis-deeds and the subsequent critical thoughts. So what happens is you interrupt your own thought process to wonder what crimes you have. It is trained into you by the tech and org staff, particularly ethics officers drill it into you. THE RESULT IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A CHANCE AT EVALUATING THE CHURCH IMPARTIALLY. Hubbard also pointed out that the breaking down of a persons ability to withold reduces their intelligence, it was an early discovery to do with confessionals and early on there was a remedy for it. Not now. I am sure we are all meant to be as dumb as possible and not able to withold (a mis-deed or a dollar) when it comes to the church. So natural and balanced critical thinking skills are disabled, in the direction of scientology, in any case.

"Later when I recovered a bit from this mind fuck I did a thorough doubt condition with the true data of the church's intentions. I was able to make a list of the "activities" of the group, that list was divided into pro and contra survival actions. The contra survival list was many times bigger than the pro list. It surprised me, as I did not include anything I had not seen myself, so nothing I read on the web went into it. I was seeing scientology for the first time. In saying this I am not saying the tech is rot, but it is not the tech to achieve OT or total freedom, a claim whereby it gets most of its mystique. It is what it is, and does what it does, that seems to be a different thing person to person." END QUOTE

LINK to thread
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?7524-My-bridge-to-OTVII

By the way, check out Feral's tag line at the bottom of each of his posts re Rex Fowler. True story.

 

[Goodbye]

I'm always extremely critical of the accuracy of any story about Scientology since most people who have left the CO$ have axes to grind, agendas to belabor, which often lend themselves to exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective.

I'm very much on-board with the training and auditing tech by Hubbard, I've benefited tremendously from it, and still do, and have absolutely no interest whatsoever in what any naysayer and invalidator has to say, hence I don't frequent this board much.

The CO$ in it's current form is little more than an organized crime syndicate posing as a religion, a scam-based predatory parasitic money cult that ought to be stamped out once and for all.

That being said, I believe "Feral's" and "Scooter's" story to be real and genuine. It's the real deal, matches my own experiences.

 

[Out/Int]

I'm always extremely critical of the accuracy of any story about Scientology since most people who have left the CO$ have axes to grind, agendas to belabor, which often lend themselves to exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective.

I'm very much on-board with the training and auditing tech by Hubbard, I've benefited tremendously from it, and still do, and have absolutely no interest whatsoever in what any naysayer and invalidator has to say, hence I don't frequent this board much.

The CO$ in it's current form is little more than an organized crime syndicate posing as a religion, a scam-based predatory parasitic money cult that ought to be stamped out once and for all.

That being said, I believe "Feral's" and "Scooter's" story to be real and genuine. It's the real deal, matches my own experiences.

Congrats. You made it to PHASE II of leaving Scientology.

Sure - we all benefited from Hubbard's cult or we would not have stayed in so long - but find out where the good stuff came from and just how evil DR. HUBBARD really was.

Continue down that Rabbit hole my friend.

Watch this excellent video: https://youtu.be/UO0vPYd9Txw

Study Helluvahoax's "Hubbard's Law of Commotion" to understand how he duped you.

Go Crystal Clear - by getting information about evil cults and the very precise procedures they use to trap and manipulate people out of their money and time. Consult the experts out there. They know their stuff.

GET ALL THE WAY OUT of $cientology!

There are tons of self help books, videos, groups out amongst the "RAW MEAT" and "WOG WORLD"- for very little cost -all good folks willing to help people with the struggles of life.

Hubbard was a criminal con man who plagerized other people's work, used hypnosis and mind control to get rich.

He was a fraud, a con and a criminal psycho.

 

[Veda]

I'm always extremely critical of the accuracy of any story about Scientology since most people who have left the CO$ have axes to grind, agendas to belabor, which often lend themselves to exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective.

Why did you leave the CO$?

 

[WildKat]

I'm always extremely critical of the accuracy of any story about Scientology since most people who have left the CO$ have axes to grind, agendas to belabor, which often lend themselves to exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective.

I'm very much on-board with the training and auditing tech by Hubbard, I've benefited tremendously from it, and still do, and have absolutely no interest whatsoever in what any naysayer and invalidator has to say, hence I don't frequent this board much.

The CO$ in it's current form is little more than an organized crime syndicate posing as a religion, a scam-based predatory parasitic money cult that ought to be stamped out once and for all.

That being said, I believe "Feral's" and "Scooter's" story to be real and genuine. It's the real deal, matches my own experiences.

Thanks for your input, and thanks again for bumping the Feral thread. It's a doozy! The thing that really grabbed me was Feral's study tech win...and finding out only YEARS LATER that the study Tech wasn't even Hubbard. There are other examples of this which can be found if you're open to look at them.

My view, after much researching and reading, is that the truly vicious and damaging elements of Scn ARE from Hubbard! Much of the good stuff was borrowed or plagiarized. But the other things like Disconnection, crush regging, abusive critic handling, sec checking abuses, evaluating and giving people issues they never even had before (e.g. OT III and instilling fear about it) in order to keep them in the circus, promising states that can't be delivered...... these were all uniquely Hubbard's.

The good stuff, the stuff that can be found outside of the abusive totalitarian cult, was the bait in the trap. There's another thread on this, so I won't beat it to death here.

 

[Veda]

Why did you leave the CO$?

It appears that Goodbye has left the thread, at least for now.

Was curious, so checked to see if Goodbye and I had had any encounters.

Recently I've reviewed a collection of videos from Independent and FZ Scientologists.

Individual presentations and panel discussions: one featuring Johnny the Magic thetan - self proclaimed OT 9 and Class 13 - and also Trey Lotz.

It was sad, and I felt embarrassed for them.

Years ago, my vision of what long term experienced highly trained and audited Scientologists would be like - all these year later - was that these would be super sane, super smart, super-alive Operating Thetans.
What a let down.

My question is:

OT aside, does anyone know any sane and honest Scientologists?

If so, can you coax them to come post here. Even for a little bit?

I'm curious.

If this were a thread on Jews, homosexuals or Blacks, then I could point you out some racists, bigots and haters.

Oh well.

 

[EZ Linus]

I think those of us that left don't necessarily have "an ax to grind" but there may have been something upsetting that came up that caused them to step away and become objective. That doesn't mean the person now has a vendetta and is going to rewrite history. The person can have the realization that they were duped sometime after they were helped and before they became fully ensconced. There has to be some actual, real-deal truth at the beginnings of Scientology to make the rest of the scam workable. Because this is how Hubbard was able to seduce members to trust him.

If you read just one book by Dr. Margaret Singer, or watch that video (I didn't watch it, but I have read all of her books), she may mention how a dangerous groups such as Scientology, a money-making scam as I think someone described it (I'm paraphrasing), uses reciprocation to cement people in. Reciprocation is a very powerful tool, believe it or not. It is stronger and more insidious than just peer pressure alone.

The Comm Course for instance, or study tech, the ARC triangle; all of these things are sprinkled heavily with helpful psychology that is framed in a way that (with Hubbard's invented jargon) looks like he "discovered" it alone. He did not. But this gets you to trust him. You trust him again and again and he never steers you wrong and eventually, all of this strips away your critical thinking and you begin to assume he is right. These are little baby steps into ceasing to question him after a long period of time.

There are other tactics too, like being coerced into earlier similars so that you start running "past lives." You HAVE TO recall something, so you imagine whatever and trust that it's real. What's true for you is true, If it's not in writing it's not true, etc. or whatever sayings that are used to reinforce nonsense. Nonsense! What's true for you is NOT true. Truth and certainty are NOT the same thing. But in Scientology they are. You get a huge win on clearing a word and think that knowing the word with certainty equals some universal truth about you. Clearing the word exterior until your giddy means what exactly? Well, it means you are high on the Kool-Aid. That doesn't mean that, 20 years ago, when you were lifting an ashtray from a chair at "tone 40" it didn't help you, improve your performance at work, give you confidence, etc. For some reason, all that stuff has its place. It's about getting the correct perspective, and if you have spent 20+ years in the group, it may take you another 20 to be able to arrive at this perspective. The first step is to debunk every single scrap of information (especially the stuff that helped you), and find the real source of it. It will not be Hubbard.

 

[Goodbye]

Congrats. You made it to PHASE II of leaving Scientology.

Leaving the CO$, never left Scientology auditing and training. Your "Congrats" or whatever you consider "Phases" are not relevant to anything, since I am the one who makes a decision for myself considering my own best interests.

Leaving is as simple as not returning to their building -- at least for me.

Why did you leave the CO$?

Primarily organizational ... many reasons along that line, too many to list, most of which have already been addressed in many posts, so nothing unique here.

Thanks for your input, and thanks again for bumping the Feral thread. It's a doozy! The thing that really grabbed me was Feral's study tech win ... and finding out only YEARS LATER that the study Tech wasn't even Hubbard. There are other examples of this which can be found if you're open to look at them.

I couldn't agree more. Keep in mind the originators never developed Method 1 or expanded the W/C tech esp. along metering lines, which again I benefited greatly from.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

Primarily organizational ... many reasons along that line, too many to list, most of which have already been addressed in many posts, so nothing unique here.

-snip-

I was attempting to be ironical, in light of your below paragraph:

I'm always extremely critical of the accuracy of any story about Scientology since most people who have left the CO$ have axes to grind, agendas to belabor, which often lend themselves to exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective.

-snip-

Oh, and thanks for your compliment about my being a Big OT. I'd completely forgotten about it. It's always nice to be validated.

 

[tesseract]

Leaving is as simple as not returning to their building -- at least for me.

OK. For those who have "walked out of the building" but are interested in what it might mean to leave all the way, this is worth watching:

[video]https://youtu.be/j1hKF9SWP3M[/video]
[Chris Shelton and Steve Hassan]

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

snip I'm always extremely critical of the accuracy of any story about Scientology since most people who have left the CO$ have axes to grind, agendas to belabor, which often lend themselves to exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective.

Not sure which Church of Scientology you attended, but my experience is exact opposite!

The stories of the exes very often do not tell the full extent of the abuse. Victims of abuse (of whatever kind) are often unaware, confused, blame self, tired, unable to verbalize the full extent of the abuse.

My guess is that if the journalists who have experience interviewing ex Scientologists were to be polled, they would state that horrible tales just spill out and that these victims have not fully processed what happened to them.

 

[WildKat]

Not sure which Church of Scientology you attended, but my experience is exact opposite!

The stories of the exes very often do not tell the full extent of the abuse. Victims of abuse (of whatever kind) are often unaware, confused, blame self, tired, unable to verbalize the full extent of the abuse.

My guess is that if the journalists who have experience interviewing ex Scientologists were to be polled, they would state that horrible tales just spill out and that these victims have not fully processed what happened to them.

People who leave Scn also leave with the baggage that "you're always responsible for the condition you're in," so it can take YEARS for them to see that they were actually the victim of a cult.

 

[Free Being Me]

I'm always extremely critical of the accuracy of any story about Scientology since most people who have left the CO$ have axes to grind, agendas to belabor, which often lend themselves to exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective. >snip<

You wouldn't happen to write press statements for Karin Pouw?

 

[Goodbye]

You wouldn't happen to write press statements for Karin Pouw?

Nor anyone else.

Same bucket of sh*t exists in both sides of the camp.

The stories of the exes very often do not tell the full extent of the abuse. Victims of abuse (of whatever kind) are often unaware, confused, blame self, tired, unable to verbalize the full extent of the abuse.

Not a black & white world.

I'm not a victim of anything, not the CO$, DM or anyone else.

Most though I know liked auditing and training but not the organization and sought venture elsewhere such as Independent Scientology.

Then there are those like Feral and Scooter and many others who have been hit very badly as fact has borne out.

Then there are those who consider themselves victims, at least purport to be, esp. when they have axes to grind and agendas to forward.

Not a black & white world, anything and everything inbetween.

I left when I realized the CO$ wasn't going anywhere, but have no regrets on all the services I took. In fact I left a happy camper and and bailed out at the exact point they weren't serving me any longer, and then continued in IND. SCN. And I'm still a happy camper.

 

[Free Being Me]

Nor anyone else.

Same bucket of sh*t exists in both sides of the camp.

I see. You're obviously a people person.

 

[Free Being Me]

I'm always extremely critical of the accuracy of any story about Scientology since most [HIGHLIGHT]people who have left the CO$ have axes to grind, agendas to belabor, which often lend themselves to exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective.[/HIGHLIGHT] >snip<

>snip< [HIGHLIGHT]Then there are those who consider themselves victims, at least purport to be, esp. when they have axes are grind and agendas to forward.[/HIGHLIGHT]

You're repeating yourself with the same ludicrous $cio dead agenting smear tactic. The Cof$ through their spokesholes releases similar garbage on a regular basis trying to mislead the public into disregarding what Ex's have to say. That might not be the way to go here.

 

[Anonycat]

You're repeating yourself with the same ludicrous $cio dead agenting smear tactic. The Cof$ through their spokesholes releases similar garbage on a regular basis trying to mislead the public into disregarding what Ex's have to say. That might not be the way to go here.

Yep! And not just here, but to any ex who tells their account of what happened. It's also exactly like like the cult PR "press releases" or responses to any and all whistleblowers. We've all seen it again and again. The "axe to grind" is a classic phrase from the cult when facing the reality of all those who speak out about the truth of what happens within the cult. And you nailed it: Karin Pouw does this and repeatedly - and has for years. Oh, Leah and her TV show? Axe to grind. Name any documentary about the cult, or anyone with sterling credentials: axe to grind/bigot.

 

[Goodbye]

"I'm always extremely critical of the accuracy of any story about Scientology since most people who have left the CO$ have axes to grind, agendas to belabor, which often lend themselves to exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective."

You're repeating yourself with the same ludicrous $cio dead agenting smear tactic. The Cof$ through their spokesholes releases similar garbage on a regular basis trying to mislead the public into disregarding what Ex's have to say. That might not be the way to go here.

Doesn't matter what the CO$ says or does, or however you wish to "associate" whatever tactic they use. My statement is an observable FACT regardless who or what entity concurs or disagrees with it. Much supposed victim-testimony is pure BS, perhaps you buy into it, I don't. Feral's and Scooter's stories are spot-on.

Many objections to BS is met with "The CO$ said that too, therefore you must be a ...". Entirely your own nonsense, your own inability to distinguish between BS & the CO$.

I really don't care how things go here, I call the shots the way I see them, not the way you may like or dislike them. I don't sign up with agreement or disagreement clubs.

 

[Free Being Me]

Doesn't matter what the CO$ says or does, or however you wish to "associate" whatever tactic they use. My statement is an observable FACT regardless who or what entity concurs or disagrees with it. Much supposed victim-testimony is pure BS, perhaps you buy into it, I don't. Feral's and Scooter's stories are spot-on.

Many objections to BS is met with "The CO$ said that too, therefore you must be a ...". Entirely your own nonsense, your own inability to distinguish between BS & the CO$.

I really don't care how things go here, I call the shots the way I see them, not the way you may like or dislike them. I don't sign up with agreement or disagreement clubs.

I've seen $cio's and the still $cio-minded and cult apologists and cult defenders play their rhetoric/fallacy serpentine dodge-ball antics here at ESMB for years. They don't last long because they end up ignored or leave in a huff or step over the line getting themselves perma-banned.

Yes, Feral and Scooter have shared their stories and both are worth the time to read. And many other people have shared their experiences inside the $cio-cult and they too deserve to be heard. With that said, all you're posting are generalities and baseless accusations with no specifics and doing it in way that minimizes and dismisses the many people who escaped a brutal cult. I recommend you google the word empathy. Good luck.

 

[Goodbye]

I've seen $cio's and the still $cio-minded and cult apologists and cult defenders play their rhetoric/fallacy serpentine dodge-ball antics here at ESMB for years.

Who cares in any group that immediately sets out to viciously attacking anyone still practicing SCN out here?

How about you start taking a look in your own backyard, it's not a one-way street. You ask for tolerance for CO$-victims while you yourself have ZERO tolerance for anyone still doing SCN all the while posing subtle threats of banning. That's trolling, not victimhood. Here's the "perspective" factor I spoke of earlier. Time for some insight.

They don't last long because they end up ignored or leave in a huff or step over the line getting themselves perma-banned.

Anytime you like.

If my opinions, whether they are in agreement or disagreement with CO$ or any other association you like to draw is not welcome, I don't want to be here either. You are a CO$-victim while also being intolerant of well-thought-out talking points? This is where the "BS" comes in I spoke of earlier.

You are just as critical toward those still practicing SCN out here as the CO$ers are of you. Playing with the same mirror? What makes you any different in mindset from the scios other than "I'm against them now"???

Yes, Feral and Scooter have shared their stories and both are worth the time to read. And many other people have shared their experiences inside the $cio-cult and they too deserve to be heard.

Nothing in any of my previous postings suggests I'm denying anyone's rights to be heard, hence a moot point. I also have the right to be heard even if it's in disagreement with any position you have on the matter. Remember, two-way street? Or have you become so rigid after leaving the CO$ that certain points of discussion have become too intolerable for you?

"Exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective" is my position whether you agree with it or not. I deem it to be true and factual. And if you don't agree with it, that OK with me, as it should be OK with you for me to post my position on this matter.

No?

With that said, all you're posting are generalities and baseless accusations with no specifics and doing it in way that minimizes and dismisses the many people who escaped a brutal cult. I recommend you google the word empathy. Good luck.

False. This statement itself is a generalization, no different than the generalization that everyone who was in the CO$ at one time now posting out here is a victim. In fact, it's a falsehood. This is the falsehood I spoke of earlier. You are in serious need of some insight my friend.

You can find my "Empathy" on both Feral's and Scooter's thread -- Google not necessary. You merely need to look instead of proselyting.