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[Voltaire's Child]

Suppose Hubbard's "Tone Scale" behavioural aspects (Science of Survival) is wrong!

Suppose his definitions of "low" and "high" tones are false or simply his mechanism for controlling his disciples?

Suppose Ron was manipulating us?

Once you drop his many, multi-layered "techs", it becomes perfectly clear that he put us in his Scn box.

Outside the box there is freedom of thought, action and opinion, inside there is ... Hubbardology. This was his Black magic spell.

I agree in a way and disagree in another. Hubbard was too into the cult leader thing and showed great disregard for other people.

But I believe- and have done it, too- that concepts and techniques in Scn can be practiced outside the cultic milieu. Like I said in my previous post, either they have applicability or not.

 

[Mojo]

Either a concept works or it doesn't. If it does, then one ascertains to what degree it works and if it's worth having/using in the future.

Hitler went for the physical extermination of all opposing ideas. Hubbard went for Hit's psychological counter-part.

The fundamental concept at the heart of scientology is that the EGO itself is a God.

It is not.

Mojo

 

[lionheart]

In my experience it can be done up to Clear, but generally this only happened in outer orgs and Missions far from the influence of Hubbard.

Certainly a well done HRD specifically addresses these virtues.

But, but, but, I think this was rare and there is still an insideous layer of dishonesty, dishonour and indecency even woven into the "lower techs", so insideous that most Scns don't even see it and are unaware of it.

There are other techs, not interwoven with Black Magic, that can be used instead of Scn.

Above Clear - well .....

Could you be more specific LH?

Mojo has given a good example in the post above and I have been posting about specifics for over a year on here, so you could always read my posts for specifics!

Rather than recapping ad-nauseum, I'll pick just one example.
"The highest purpose in the universe is to create an effect"

This is one of Hubbard's black magic spells.

Of course, outside the Scn box it is obvious that a real full release at the level of the Grades would be a perfect willingness to be either cause or effect, both or neither. that would be a real release. Ron implanted us with the false idea of a release, which is actually a pseudo-release. He implanted us with the false freedom concept of "at cause". Like Mojo says this is the inflating of the ego. It is a left-hand path black magic spell. It is not freedom, it is a trap, a con, an implant.

So we do grade 1, for example, and the psudo release, inflated ego EP is called Problems Release. But we don't see any conflict between this "release" and the problem/solution infected dramatisation which is Scn. So we fight critics, we condone black ops and assign the source of the problems these cause to SP's and others, not self and our own dynamic activities.

Yet we think we are a problem release, because we are judging it by Ron's definitions and policies on life, and being. So we feel great! We feel released because we are "succeeding" along Ron's implanted goal of "At cause". Our ego is pumped up and we feel fantastic!

So we as Scns must create effects, because Ron has cast that spell upon us and we must clear the planet, must condone problem creating activities like declares and fair game and reporter TRs and KSW, and, and, and... Scientology. Even if we leave the CofS we still must fight "critics", defend the "tech", apply LRH datums that clearly don't work. We find it hard to allow ourselves to be effect of things.

Those who really get a release outside the Hubbard Scn box definition of a must-be-at-cause release, quietly leave Scn or they object to Hubbard's black magic and get busted.

Those who stay "in" are inside the hubbard box of thinking and are stuck in the insideous layers of "dishonesty, dishonour and indecency woven into the "lower techs", so insideous that most Scns don't even see them and are unaware of them."

Real relased PCs stop being scientologists because they also release Hubbard's black magic pseudo abilities and goals

Hope that answered your question! There are other examples that I have talked about in the past on here.

 

[Free to shine]

I think the video on this thread says it quite well too.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=83424#post83424

 

[Tanstaafl]

Thanks for that LH.

I take your points. I tend to agree but I don't draw the conclusion (not yet, anyway) that this is some black magic op. As I see it the tech simply does not deliver what it promises. Hubbard made many promises on the state of OT and, in the early 50s particularly, talked as if it were just around the corner. Perhaps much of what followed was the old man insisting on having been right?

Cheers

tanstaafl

 

[lionheart]

Thanks for that LH.

I take your points. I tend to agree but I don't draw the conclusion (not yet, anyway) that this is some black magic op. As I see it the tech simply does not deliver what it promises. Hubbard made many promises on the state of OT and, in the early 50s particularly, talked as if it were just around the corner. Perhaps much of what followed was the old man insisting on having been right?

Cheers

tanstaafl

We each see what we see.

What I see from his affirmations/admissions onwards into Scn is left hand path magic and a physical realisation of his self-implanted magic affirmation that is quoted in my sig.

As regards black magic, I was talking about this to an anon in the pub after the picket and she said she didn't believe in black magic. I explained that the important thing is the effect the black magic had upon the psyche of the practitioner, in this case Hubbard, rather than the effect on the recipient of any of his spells.

But he certainly created a large group of "men" (and women) who appeared and appear to act like his slaves and he certainly asked for and received material benefit from Scn. So.....

"At cause" is a left-hand path mage's goal. Does that make scn a "black magic op"?

PS, of course Ron would have to make himself right after pumping himself with all those affirmations! That's the whole point of them. When you read them, they show his insecurities, his problems, his character, his desires, his goals. After a mind-f*ck like he put himself through, of course he would have to make himself right when his Scn brags, failed. And besides he had asserted himself as "at cause" so it was impossible for him to be at effect, but of course, inevitably, that's all he ever was because of the left-hand-path lie he had implanted himself with!

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Rather than recapping ad-nauseum, I'll pick just one example.

"The highest purpose in the universe is to create an effect"

This is one of Hubbard's black magic spells.

If that is in fact "black magic" then EVERY human being (and most other lifeforms) on earth is a Dark Mage and this has been true for millions of years prior to the birth of L. Ron Hubbard.

That Hubbard must have been one hell of a sorcerer if he could have produced the effect of corrupting all of humanity since the dawn of time.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I do not believe in left hand and right hand paths. It's all middle to me.

It's not the method, it's what you do with it that matters.

There is a company out here that has some kind of series of devices that cut things with water. Water is very strong. You can destroy with it. It also helps plants and animals survive. Water isn't inherently evil or left hand just because you can cut with it. Water is water.

I believe that the idea that some things are left hand or right hand path is a similar idea to the one that goes "some things came from Satan, others from God". This is not good. It says that certain things must be off limits and not thought of, ever.

 

[lionheart]

If that is in fact "black magic" then EVERY human being (and most other lifeforms) on earth is a Dark Mage and this has been true for millions of years prior to the birth of L. Ron Hubbard.

That Hubbard must have been one hell of a sorcerer if he could have produced the effect of corrupting all of humanity since the dawn of time.


Mark A. Baker

If you think that all human beings, most life forms, other religions and philosophies have "at cause" as their ultimate goal, I suggest you broaden your reading. :wink2:

Find out about the left hand path and decide for yourself which religions/philosophies are left hand path.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Hand_Path

 

[lionheart]

I do not believe in left hand and right hand paths. It's all middle to me.

It's not the method, it's what you do with it that matters.

There is a company out here that has some kind of series of devices that cut things with water. Water is very strong. You can destroy with it. It also helps plants and animals survive. Water isn't inherently evil or left hand just because you can cut with it. Water is water.

I believe that the idea that some things are left hand or right hand path is a similar idea to the one that goes "some things came from Satan, others from God". This is not good. It says that certain things must be off limits and not thought of, ever.

With respect, the point is not what you believe. The belief that counts is that of the practitioner of what he/she considers as the left-hand path.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Hand_Path

"The terms Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path are primarily used by advocates of the Left-Hand Path, who hold varying opinions of the Right-Hand Path."

So Hubbard, Crowley, Parsons, et al would be the ones who considered themselves left-hand-path Mages. This is not my opinion, it is the belief of the left-hand path practitioner. Read LRH's admissions and you will read his belief in left-hand path magic.

From the wikipedia article:
Left-Hand Path belief systems generally share the following properties:

* The conviction that individuals can become akin to gods, usually through spiritual insight.
* The conviction that there is no such thing as a selfless act. Fulfilling one's desire is acknowledged to be selfish, at the least reaping an individual sense of satisfaction. Altruism is considered self-deception, created and fostered by conventional religions.
* An exoteric interpretation of concepts like karma, divine retribution, or the Threefold Law, resulting in flexible rather than rigid codes of morality.
* The conviction that the individual is preeminent, and that all decisions should be made with the goal of cultivating the self (though not necessarily the ego).
* The conviction that each individual is responsible for his or her own happiness, and that no external force will provide salvation or reward actions which do not advance one's own happiness in this life.
* The conviction that the forces of the universe can be harnessed to one's personal will by magical means, and that power gained and wielded in such a manner is an aid to enlightenment, to self-satisfaction, and to self-deification.


This is exactly what Hubbard was attempting with his affirmations. He believed himself to be a left-hand path magicican.

His scientology concepts of "the highest purpose in the Universe" and "at cause" are his reworkings of his left-hand path magic. Considering his subsequent philosophy and behaviour there is no reason to suppose he abandoned his left-hand path magical beliefs.

Therefore, whatever our personal beliefs about these things, I maintain that Scientology was Hubbard's magical workings to achieve his left-hand path purposes. He created a cult of slaves and sought material things as a benefit. In addition he also sought self-deification through his willpower, as per his affirmations. In Scn he reworked this magic by calling himself "Source".

His original OT-levels were reworkings of his magical spells to assert and cultivate his willpower over the physical universe and other beings. They failed and like many left-hand path magicians he suffered the physical and psychological effects that are the liability of the left-hand path. His solution was to seek dominion over elemental spirits as per his admissions. His scn re-working of this magic was called NOTs.

Now, here we are left with his magical workings called Scientology, and we see a "church" more or less fullfilling the above bullet points and causing a perversion of the leaders' psychology towards self-inflation.

Of course there is a middle way, but that is not in the remit of the left-hand path mage's belief system. At cause and at effect can be balanced and harmonised, but a left-hander does not believe this. Therefore Scn emphasises "cause" as the highest purpose and the philosophy relegates effect to low judgements such as "victim", "theeety-weety", "PTS". It is a harsh, cruel, selfish philosophy, because it is based upon left-hand path magic.

The philosophy known as scientology is set up this way with these concepts because it was Hubbard's black magic spell to deify himself, as per his affirmations.

Good luck, Fluffy in your attempt to transmute Scn black magic into a Middle Way.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

With respect, the point is not what you believe. The belief that counts is that of the practitioner of what he/she considers as the left-hand path.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_Hand_Path

"The terms Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path are primarily used by advocates of the Left-Hand Path, who hold varying opinions of the Right-Hand Path."

So Hubbard, Crowley, Parsons, et al would be the ones who considered themselves left-hand-path Mages. This is not my opinion, it is the belief of the left-hand path practitioner. Read LRH's admissions and you will read his belief in left-hand path magic.

From the wikipedia article:
Left-Hand Path belief systems generally share the following properties:

* The conviction that individuals can become akin to gods, usually through spiritual insight.
* The conviction that there is no such thing as a selfless act. Fulfilling one's desire is acknowledged to be selfish, at the least reaping an individual sense of satisfaction. Altruism is considered self-deception, created and fostered by conventional religions.
* An exoteric interpretation of concepts like karma, divine retribution, or the Threefold Law, resulting in flexible rather than rigid codes of morality.
* The conviction that the individual is preeminent, and that all decisions should be made with the goal of cultivating the self (though not necessarily the ego).
* The conviction that each individual is responsible for his or her own happiness, and that no external force will provide salvation or reward actions which do not advance one's own happiness in this life.
* The conviction that the forces of the universe can be harnessed to one's personal will by magical means, and that power gained and wielded in such a manner is an aid to enlightenment, to self-satisfaction, and to self-deification.


This is exactly what Hubbard was attempting with his affirmations. He believed himself to be a left-hand path magicican.

His scientology concepts of "the highest purpose in the Universe" and "at cause" are his reworkings of his left-hand path magic. Considering his subsequent philosophy and behaviour there is no reason to suppose he abandoned his left-hand path magical beliefs.

Therefore, whatever our personal beliefs about these things, I maintain that Scientology was Hubbard's magical workings to achieve his left-hand path purposes. He created a cult of slaves and sought material things as a benefit. In addition he also sought self-deification through his willpower, as per his affirmations. In Scn he reworked this magic by calling himself "Source".

His original OT-levels were reworkings of his magical spells to assert and cultivate his willpower over the physical universe and other beings. They failed and like many left-hand path magicians he suffered the physical and psychological effects that are the liability of the left-hand path. His solution was to seek dominion over elemental spirits as per his admissions. His scn re-working of this magic was called NOTs.

Now, here we are left with his magical workings called Scientology, and we see a "church" more or less fullfilling the above bullet points and causing a perversion of the leaders' psychology towards self-inflation.

Of course there is a middle way, but that is not in the remit of the left-hand path mage's belief system. At cause and at effect can be balenced and harmonised, but a left-hander does not believe this. Therefore Scn emphasises "cause" as the highest purpose and the philosophy relegates effect to low judgements such as "victim", "theeety-weety", "PTS". It is a harsh, cruel, selfish philosophy, because it is based upon left-hand path magic.

The philosophy known as scientology is set up this way with these concepts because it was Hubbard's black magic spell to deify himself, as per his affirmations.

Good luck, Fluffy in your attempt to transmute Scn black magic into a Middle Way.

May be there's some truth in that (Nibs Hubbard apparently claimed that Scientology is black magic), but as for "cause" and "effect," Scn correlates a being's tone level with his or her (I don't like "its") ability to tolerate effects; the higher the tone, the more effects can be tolerated.

 

[lionheart]

May be there's some truth in that (Nibs Hubbard apparently claimed that Scientology is black magic), but as for "cause" and "effect," Scn correlates a being's tone level with his or her (I don't like "its") ability to tolerate effects; the higher the tone, the more effects can be tolerated.

Well scn is deliberately (in my opinion) laced with contradictions. I believe this was done to confuse the slaves, so that they would latch onto LRH himself as the stable datum and therefore accept whatever he said. This made his current orders senior to his policies, which fulfilled his ambition to make men his slaves.

Yes there is that scale of tolerance of effect, but all that does is contradict the "highest purpose in the universe". Just part of the confusion he created. :confused2:

Nevertheless the main thrust of Scn is to become "at cause". There is very little of the philosophy that works the scientologist towards "at effect"! And "at cause" is a left-hand path magical goal. Hubbard himself messed himself up so much with his own left-hand path goal that he had an incredibly low tolerance of receiving effects. He manically asserted "at cause" because of his own black magic.

A while ago I suggested a process to unpick the scn programming. It is to repeat the concept "the highest purpose in the universe is to be an effect" and run whatever comes up with scn techniques or simple releasing techniques.

Keying out, releasing on both sides of the polarity should redress any undue evaluative influence that others may have had upon us.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

The "magick" is neither black nor white. Ideas are ideas.

I'm not "trying" to do anything. Everything's fine and nobody 'round here's fittin' any square pegs into any round holes.

 

[Mark A. Baker]

Well scn is deliberately (in my opinion) laced with contradictions.

Well I certainly agree with the fact of contradictions. How "deliberate" they were - not so much. Hubbard was by most testaments a "contradictory sort of guy".

It's not surprising to me in the least that his written ideas were constantly at odds with each other given how much turmoil is attested in his behavior and constant mental variability.

I believe this was done to confuse the slaves, so that they would latch onto LRH himself as the stable datum and therefore accept whatever he said. This made his current orders senior to his policies, which fulfilled his ambition to make men his slaves.

Well that certainly is one viewpoint, and does explain your holding on to the "intentionally contradictory" viewpoint. The idea falls apart once you question actual intent.

I find that given enough opportunity to communicate most people tend to contradict themselves. Given Hubbard's incessant "intellectual" bustling, as stated above, I don't see anything surprising in his manifold self-contradictions.

As to "Hubbard as a stable datum", many individuals seem to need a leader for themselves to believe in and follow. I would certainly agree that Hubbard, with his insistence on being in the spotlight, focused attention on himself & reinforced the "idolatrous tendencies of others" by his management practices.


Mark A. Baker

 

[lionheart]

Well I certainly agree with the fact of contradictions. How "deliberate" they were - not so much. Hubbard was by most testaments a "contradictory sort of guy".

It's not surprising to me in the least that his written ideas were constantly at odds with each other given how much turmoil is attested in his behavior and constant mental variability.


Well that certainly is one viewpoint, and does explain your holding on to the "intentionally contradictory" viewpoint. The idea falls apart once you question actual intent.

I find that given enough opportunity to communicate most people tend to contradict themselves. Given Hubbard's incessant "intellectual" bustling, as stated above, I don't see anything surprising in his manifold self-contradictions.

As to "Hubbard as a stable datum", many individuals seem to need a leader for themselves to believe in and follow. I would certainly agree that Hubbard, with his insistence on being in the spotlight, focused attention on himself & reinforced the "idolatrous tendencies of others" by his management practices.


Mark A. Baker

Cool! Thanks for a reasoned answer. As to intention, we can never know for sure. All we can observe are the known facts. We see contradictions and LRH in the spotlight like you say. ("source").

Also I remember his early documents focussed significantly on the "Prior Confusion" theory. This seems to have been something he believed in. His subject subsequently created a lot of confusion (contradictory data, food and sleep deprivation, on-post stress, etc). I think these are things we can agree to be observable facts.

Veda could confrim this, but I think his Brainwashing Manual contained confusion techniques in order to exert control.

Then in the 50's & 60's onwards, we see Hubbard establishing himself as a stable datum authority (KSW, RJ 67, etc) and followers accepting his pronouncements and orders even to the extent of carrying out Fair Game and Operation Snow White.

Whether he deliberately set up the confusions to re-inforce his authority we can only have opinions about and can't know for sure. But confusion appears to exist in the subject and LRH wanted to be a stable datum authority otherwise he wuldn't have set himself up to be one!

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Well scn is deliberately (in my opinion) laced with contradictions. I believe this was done to confuse the slaves, so that they would latch onto LRH himself as the stable datum and therefore accept whatever he said. This made his current orders senior to his policies, which fulfilled his ambition to make men his slaves.

Yes there is that scale of tolerance of effect, but all that does is contradict the "highest purpose in the universe". Just part of the confusion he created. :confused2:

Nevertheless the main thrust of Scn is to become "at cause". There is very little of the philosophy that works the scientologist towards "at effect"! And "at cause" is a left-hand path magical goal. Hubbard himself messed himself up so much with his own left-hand path goal that he had an incredibly low tolerance of receiving effects. He manically asserted "at cause" because of his own black magic.

A while ago I suggested a process to unpick the scn programming. It is to repeat the concept "the highest purpose in the universe is to be an effect" and run whatever comes up with scn techniques or simple releasing techniques.

Keying out, releasing on both sides of the polarity should redress any undue evaluative influence that others may have had upon us.

Interesting theory; I've seen tech for handling polarities elsewhere on the Internet; there's a set of processes called P.E.A.T. which apparently do the job.

From what I've seen in other writings though (M. Scott Peck for one), reality is inherently paradoxical and so contradictions are to be expected in any tech which seeks to handle one's own reality.

Perhaps this needs a new thread, but for example my old teacher (Vernon Howard RIP) used to say that all responsibility disappears as soon as you take total responsibility for your life.

 

[lionheart]

Interesting theory; I've seen tech for handling polarities elsewhere on the Internet; there's a set of processes called P.E.A.T. which apparently do the job.

From what I've seen in other writings though (M. Scott Peck for one), reality is inherently paradoxical and so contradictions are to be expected in any tech which seeks to handle one's own reality.

Perhaps this needs a new thread, but for example my old teacher (Vernon Howard RIP) used to say that all responsibility disappears as soon as you take total responsibility for your life.

I use the Sedona Method Holistic Releasing for handling polarities. I've heard of PEAT but never used it.

I often find a paradox when releasing, which is why it is so hard to describe!

The more responsibility you take the easier life becomes until in the end you are dancing lightly on the bubble of life!

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

I use the Sedona Method Holistic Releasing for handling polarities. I've heard of PEAT but never used it.

I often find a paradox when releasing, which is why it is so hard to describe!

The more responsibility you take the easier life becomes until in the end you are dancing lightly on the bubble of life!

Interesting. Do you use the Sedona Method for all your personal case handling then? I've seen it mentioned but haven't gone into it in any detail. Is it copyrighted like Scn?

 

[lionheart]

Interesting. Do you use the Sedona Method for all your personal case handling then? I've seen it mentioned but haven't gone into it in any detail. Is it copyrighted like Scn?

Yes, it dug me out of a hole in 2000. These days I hardly hold anything too long, but when something is bothering me I run the SM on it.

It is copyrighted, but in practice anyone is free to use it however they wish and the whole of the techniques are covered in the one basic book. Sedona Associates do control the registration of "coaches", but nobody actually needs to do any courses and people are encouraged to twin and co-release together after reading the book.

http://www.amazon.com/Sedona-Method...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208520198&sr=8-1
$11.56 from amazon

Very different from Scn!

After lots of SM releasing, I realised I had no head thanks to Douglas Harding (headless.org). The two compliment each other and once you lose your head, most times (for me) there is nothing left to handle.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Letting go is a very important thing. It's something I'd like to be better at. But no offense...it occurs to me that...if one is looking at letting go, then how about letting go of the idea that others shouldn't practice Scn outside CofS?