need help, not a scientologist, someone else may becoming indoctrinated?

[carla]

Hello all and thank you for this board!

I am only slightly informed about Scientology and will refer to it as Sc. I am however very informed about the jw's (jehovah's witnesses) as I have a loved one caught up in that cult. I am on many of the ex jw boards so I do understand about cults, etc.... I have a library of books about cults in general and understand how difficult the exit process is for one attempting to leave and the processes used by cults to indoctrinate members.

I also understand all too well how many mistakes family members can make when a loved one is getting involved with a cult (basically we freak out and say all the wrong things which usually only "proves" to the newbie cultists that they are indeed in the truth because the cult warned or prophesied that would happen!) I would like to help a family get the correct info and help for their child so they will not sound like an apostate or in Sc land I think they are called 'suppressed persons'?

Just a quick side note: on the ex jw boards you may be interested to know that info or news about Sc makes it onto our boards in hopes that any legal actions could also have any use to the ex jw world or at least get the word out about cults in general.

Sorry for the long intro. Here's the thing- a family has sent their child to a drug rehab place only to later find out it is run by Sc. On one hand they think that this drug rehab place has the 'best' success rate (my ex jw forum mind would think that these numbers are put out by the Sc themselves and cooked the books anyway) so should not necessarily be trusted. My worry is that the child may indeed come off drugs which is a good thing but the child could be lost to the cult. Is it a valid worry? It is my understanding that Sc may not outright demand that you have no contact with non Sc family members but the relationships are forever changed nonetheless. What advice would you have for this family? and what do consider the best resources? I saw a page connected with this site and that would be a good start, others for the drug rehab places perhaps?

my thanks in advance, carla

 

[Krautfag]

If that child is in a Narconon Facility, only one advice:

Get the hell outta there.

Its grossly overpriced, the success rates are made up and the only treatment is saunas, vitamines and "therapy" according to the teachings of Hubbard. Food and accomodations tend to be substandard as well.

Oh, and treatment success to them means that the treated person isnt on drugs any longer, but instead is one of those nice clean happy Scientologists.

 

[Tiger Lily]

Hi Carla,

There are people here much more informed about this than I am, and I'm sure that you will get some great advice from them. But it looks like you understand the dangers of cults, and the mechanisms they use. Yes, it's a valid worry; I know of several people who got off drugs because of Scientology and "owe their lives" to it. One of the dangers of Scientology is that the lower level processes can be effective and are a good "hook" (these processes are used in the Narconon program). From what I understand, you are right; the statistics reported by Narconon are skewed.

I had the experience of being "in" when my family wasn't. It was a long road for them because I really was a true believer, and anything negative they said just steeled my resolve. I guess the best advice that I have is don't attack her or put her on the defensive, because she will run to them for validation. Keep in communication, let her know how much you care about her (without being cheesy or dramatic about it) and appeal to her internal "BS detector". Depending on how deeply committed she is, tell her that you are concerned because of things you have heard (you might try to slide those things in very gently, but don't attack) but that you know that she will be able to sniff out people trying to manipulate her.

If she hasn't "bought in" yet . . . then do what Krautfag said -- get outta there!

Good luck with this.
-TL

 

[carla]

Yes! it is the Narconon facility. Would you guys suggest reading Steve Hasaan's books? (he is an ex moonie cult expert now) In the meantime I will continue to research and hope for more answers. I only heard about this situation last night. I only know one family member not the parents or child.

thanks for the responses!

 

[Happy Aberree]

Hey Carla,

Just so you know -Narconon treatment is basically the purification rundown (daily saunas and vitamins both in rather large doses) and then various scientology education courses (which are based on the works of scientology founder L Ron Hubbard).

Not to say that the program has zero success rate, but from what I have seen it is definitely inflated.

If the person has wholly resigned to continue with the program, I would just try to stress to the person that they are not obligated to become involved in the religion just because they did the rehab.

Hope this helps, and hang around -you're bound to get much more advice. There are a lot of ex-members here -including ex-Narconon staff and church staff.


HAB

 

[Tiger Lily]

If you only know one family member who is closer to the situation, you might want to direct that person here -- these threads (linked below) contain reports/info about Narconon, and you can do a search of ESMB to find others. . . also I would imagine that you could dig up some stuff on them using search engines on the Internet as well.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15163&highlight=Narconon

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15029&highlight=Narconon

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=13584&highlight=Narconon

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=12316&highlight=Narconon

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=13533&highlight=Narconon

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=13093&highlight=Narconon

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=13146&highlight=Narconon

-TL

 

[Disinfected]

Carla, I can see a number of reasons that someone might choose Narconon even knowing that it is Scientology. The phony success rate - made up of blue-sky, like every other claim in Scientology. The fact that it is drug-free and psych-free - lots of fundy types hate psychs, too.

You are right that family concerns often validate the cult indoc. IMO, the problem is that the family, in their worry and need, tends to invalidate the things that the new recruit feels to be true.

If the person is doing the program and "making gains", then invalidating the program itself or invalidating the gains is exactly the wrong thing to do and will lead to the family member being seen as "suppressive". The thing to do is to go easy on those. Faked recovery stats mean nothing if the person thinks they are recovering. If the person feels that they are making progress then validate them for that. Be happy for them.

The only thing I would do is make sure that the person has the info on how Scientology works. That it takes that success one has on lower-level activities like Narconon and parlays that into a path to some imaginary state of virtual godhood that it cannot deliver on. It keeps one on that path by a tight thought control system (milieu control) and fear of losing family, friends, job, etc. if one strays - not to mention lose of eternal salvation (and if that, threat of eternal damnation, does not make Scientology a religion, then I don't know what does). It doles out more bits of feel-good at $400/hour or more while milking the person of every dime they can beg or borrow, or alternatively, stealing the best years of their lives as staff members working every waking hour for little reward either in money or in promised "Bridge progress" which somehow never materializes.

The important thing is to keep the connection. To be honest, I would rather my child were doing Scientology than drugs. But that is just me.

 

[Balthasar]

I happen to know a Drug Addiction Centre. It is located near where I live. I know most of the staff there and I am familiar with the procedures to get people off drugs and alcohol.
Once I actually got interested in what the actual success rate would be.
I could not get an exact figure despite my digging.
However, it seemed to me that roughly the half of the graduates would be falling back to their previous habits of drugs and alcohol after a while, let's say within 3 years.
It's really hard to pin down exact numbers in this regard and I doubt if there exists any reliable exact statistic of success.
According to my experience, I would say that an estimated success rate of more than 50% is good. If more than the half graduating the drug program stay clean for a couple of years, that's good I would say.
One thing is important though, you need to check this. Does this rehab place have a "resettlement" program? Are there staff who are specialized in getting the people back into society, helping them with missed education, housing (very important!), is there "after care".
It's not just "de-doxing" the body, this would be only the easy part.
Here the people do a "de-dox" for a week under medical supervision, then they go under a further three month program with group meetings, getting psychological help,
all within an enclosed area which they are not supposed to leave without supervision.
At the end of their three month there is the part with the resettlement.
So is this "Sc" rehab program good or not?
Don't know finally. What's their driving force behind their efforts?
Are they doing it because they really want to get people off their drugs. That would be a good indicator. Or are they doing it for money or for "good public relations" only. In the past, often have we seen Scientology fronts "doing good and talk about it" for the sake of good PR and to further their own agenda. But even if so, the program could still be worth the money and well worth giving it a shot.
But keep an eye on the child and stay alert especially if you "need to buy more" or "do still more" to get the results once promissed. If you hear these words, it's bad news - it's Scientology!

 

[Happy Aberree]

Unfortunately, from my experience, the "after-care" is basically routing the person onto actual scientology training/auditing.

I can understand that a person coming off drugs (especially a heavy user) would need other "stimulants" (so-to-speak) in order to stay off them. And having people to support and help them get on with living would definitely be required for the person.

This, IMO, is where scientologists and the network or community of the church come in. I believe they take advantage of a person in a very vulnerable state, where the person is at rock bottom (or mentally/emotionally/physically exhausted) and by helping him at this stage puts them at a higher status -gives them the level of being "mentor" or "guide" or some other authoritative character.

To then use that trust and confidence to steer the person into a religion that costs tens of thousands just to learn the doctrines is not very nice. It's making "salvation" or "help" into "business". And the salvation business can make lots of money with the right prospect. And a person who sees their "helper" as the "one who saved their life" is definitely the RIGHT PROSPECT.

HAB

 

[Balthasar]

Just saw that carla said it is Narconon.
Well that's definitely a bad one. It looks they would be ripping off people.
I just read this thread
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15163
Stay away from them!

 

[thetanic]

The family should read Marc Headley's Book Blown for Good to see the other extreme of Scn.

One problem with Narconon's approach: they may get one off drugs, but there's no published reliable info about their recidivism rates. They also don't use anything for palliative care during withdrawal.

 

[HCObringOrder?]

Carla,
I am wondering if you may find some local help from WhyWeProtest - the Anon web site.
Those folks love to protest outside of Scientology establishments and you might mention to them that an expose at the right time and place could help.
Just a thought, and they are not an army of anyone.
Just folks who like to point out the idiots of Scientology.
You can also search out the web site of the location you are talking about from there, and ask on that site as well.

Good Luck and keep thinking free.

 

[Cherished]

Some references for Carla and the family:

• Wife sues Narconon. Says Deception, Civil / Human Rights Abuse, Intolerant Culture Exist
  
• http://www.scribd.com/people/documents/10427819-mary-mcconnell
  
• http://fairgamestop.org/narconon.html
  
• http://www.stop-narconon.org/
  
• http://narconon-exposed.org

 

[I Call BS]

I agree I would rather my kid did Scientology than drugs...but I wonder how long that lasts, and is it just another route to demise...after all WE are here now, after wasting chunks of our lives and gone thru whatever tribulations....I am very interested in hearing more from you all about Narcanon and true accounts of what it really is, what its actually like, the actual, honest stats of success ( or not)...Thanks!!