Too Much Cruelty

[clamicide]

I know this is a little off to the side, but something I've seen come up in this thread---what ESMB looks like or should be for newbies.

I think that it's different for everyone--and I said that if it was all about 'taking down the cult', I wouldn't have stuck around... my head wasn't there, yet. However, even though I was still terrified that the tech might work--the entire anti-Scientology stuff didn't bother me. I was intrigued that people would be so vehement against something I had believed in for so long... I wanted to find out more.

I'll admit that it was once I dumped the Scientology mindset and really decided for MYSELF (not through the postings--they basically sparked me to walk away from the board and find out for myself what I really believed and whether the tek was evil or not)... THAT was when the pro-Scio stuff bothered me. Honestly, (and this is going to sound offensive--but how I really felt) when I first came here--the fact that those spouting the benefits of the tech came across to me as idiotic robots were also a big factor in me going off to question. I seriously remember moments going "omg.... did I REALLY sound like that?". When I came back after my little soul-search, yep, they just pissed me off.

The thing is, everyone's journey out is different. ESMB is this organic, changing thing... and it just morphs in the way people post to it. It's not some sort of program that can be run... Hell, I could imagine my "perfect ESMB", but it'd never happen, and probably wouldn't suit others at all. It is the mish-mash that it is, and a lot of us have benefited beyond belief. I'm sure lots of us would like to mold it into something, and at times criticism is good, but all in all, I think it's good to just 'let it breathe'. Look at all the amazing growth and friendships and healing that has come from here... something is going right.

 

[clamicide]

Oooh I want pie.... Ah hell that just means I gotta bake now...hmm apple cherry or pecan?

Yay! Seriously... Anon has the caek, can ESMB be all about pie? Plus I'm so geeky, this is what I got my son who is also geeky and bakes for his birthday (he was born on pi day lol):

http://shirt.woot.com/offers/i-heart-pie-apron



Pecan is amazing... it's also time for pumpkin. My last volunteer gig was right down the block from a place opened by some Aussies who run a pie shop. I was told I wasn't a real volunteer until I ate some of their pie... never had their sweet stuff, but their savory was AMAZING. OMG...this gal likes pie.

 

[Polly]

Yay! Seriously... Anon has the caek, can ESMB be all about pie? Plus I'm so geeky, this is what I got my son who is also geeky and bakes for his birthday (he was born on pi day lol):

http://shirt.woot.com/offers/i-heart-pie-apron



Pecan is amazing... it's also time for pumpkin. My last volunteer gig was right down the block from a place opened by some Aussies who run a pie shop. I was told I wasn't a real volunteer until I ate some of their pie... never had their sweet stuff, but their savory was AMAZING. OMG...this gal likes pie.

That is a cool apron. This is my favorite time of the year I love to cook but I especially love to bake! Ughmmmm drools for pumkin pie... Ok maybe I'll make pumpkin pie.

 

[TG1]

Thank you TG1. I am starting to see what was going on. Phew it's a lot of reading.

But still, I think when I came of Scn, it was a lingering doubt, and I was in TERROR of reading the internet. Even though I was OT V. I just thought I would be forever in trouble (worse than an SP declare that I already had? Doesn't make sense but that was how I felt). When I did start reading, the layers came off. Kind of how Arnie lists it, though it wasn't quite so pronounced as what he says...

It takes layers and layers and layers to get down to how deep the cult has instilled beliefs.

I believe (and it's ok if others have a different view, those different views make the board work) that people coming out and still believing in the tech is ok. It takes a long long time to get through it all. For some longer than others. For example: Hasn't Marty changed his views? Some of the books he suggests reading and some of the subjects he brings up on his website are TABOO in Scn. They are other practices and NOT OK. So he has changed or evolved too, hasn't he? Human, like the rest of us.

I think it is not right, for lack of a better word, to invalidate someone who still drinks the Kool-Aid.

And I will admit when the success stories were being posted here, that ticked me off. I did not want to be reading that crap. I was still believing some of it, but not much, and I certainly did not want to read any of that junk when I was trying to sort through my own stuff.

Now, if those were something that an individual member had, and wanted to share, I think that is different. I don't think I have any right to ridicule that person for it. But posting them as a third party, no, that is not right. To me, it was more like spam.

(afterthought: The Debbie Cook thing is very different to me. And I have every right to have no respect for what she did. I do see that she did cause damage. But there are serious integrity issues that bother me with what she did. Oh well. Water under the bridge. She is not someone trying to recover from Scn in my mind).

------------------

Try to remember for yourself: How did you feel right after you left Scn or the Sea Org? How did you get to where you are now? Who/what helped you with that?

Bea,

BIG CAVEAT: This post describes a small part of what I saw and felt happening at ESMB in 2010-2011. Obviously, others' mileage will vary, perhaps considerably.


I think you've captured in your post above much of the range of reactions ESMBers have had to those newly out of the cult making their way through the intellectual and emotional minefield of peeling their individual Scientology onions. There are probably some to the far left and right of that range as well.

The question of "what kind of response should Scientologists who are newly out of the church receive at ESMB?" has long been a source of great debate, strong feelings, high drama, and crusades here.

Although I’m sure there's never been consensus about this question, in 2010-2011, the tenor of the discussion here at ESMB became quite heated.

During that time, hundreds of people who had left the church or were newly out of the church were identifying with the "Indy" group that coalesced around Marty and Mike. However, in reality that Indy group included KSW Scientologists (e.g., Jim Logan), people who thought Scientology was a complete mindfuck (e.g., Amy Scobee and Jeff Hawkins), public who’d previously been large contributors to the church (e.g., Garcias, Schicks, Wendy Honnor, etc.), and a whole range of others whose views were changing rapidly.

And with all this onion-peeling, religious, philosophical and political schisms began to develop. Identity politics and culture wars broke out. Feelings ran high among different camps of exes, indies, Freezoners, never-been-ins, anons, Old Guard. Groups, sub-groups, splinter groups, real-life friends, and virtual online friends who railed against each other. As the phrase goes, “it was a dynamic period.”

I’m pretty sure that if I went back and read those old threads I’d see things I posted that I don’t believe today. I expect others might feel the same.

IMHO, we’ve come a long way, baby. And the journey is far from over.

TG1

P.S. I really wish someone would put together a timeline of all the major events that have occurred since ESMB was started back in 2007. (I didn’t join until early 2010.) It would be a great service.

 

[clamicide]

BUNNIES

Yes, anon has kittehs and caek...

I propose we have bunnies and pie!

 

[HappyGirl]

P.S. I really wish someone would put together a timeline of all the major events that have occurred since ESMB was started back in 2007. (I didn’t join until early 2010.) It would be a great service.

Axiom142 - are you up for this task?

 

[Type4_PTS]

Oooh I want pie.... Ah hell that just means I gotta bake now...hmm apple cherry or pecan?

Yes!

 

[Bea Kiddo]

Another thing I forgot to mention: As I was writing my story (which I think was 2007), and probably for at least a year, I had many many casual requests for me to join different Indy groups. I guess because I was a trained auditor and an OT? That was what I assumed. (By join, I mean become an auditor for them).

I think by people asking me that, it had a reverse reaction on me. It made me want to get further away from it.

I was in no shape to go back into the Tech that soon after being out. I could not. I don't know how people can do that.

It was making my head spin spending my ENTIRE LIFE looking onto myself and what I had done wrong. Always about ME, ME, ME. And when I was C/Sing, it was always about the PC... what did THEY DO. Always this responsibility thing that drove me nuts.

It was really nice to get away from that.


I think a great cognition for every Scientologist would be: SHIT HAPPENS!!!!

I think I did have a cog like that. And it felt great.


-------

Here I am, 10 years later, peeling another layer. Right now. Wow.

 

[Lurker5]

Oooh I want pie.... Ah hell that just means I gotta bake now...hmm apple cherry or pecan?

BOTH !

edit: OK, all 3 then, pecan, cherry and pumpkin. YUM !

 

[Polly]

Re: BUNNIES

Yes, anon has kittehs and caek...

I propose we have bunnies and pie!

We'll have to limit quantity of bunnies (too many in one place kinda gets stinky)

 

[Purple Rain]

Noticed that in Purple's response to you, she snipped your "Veda never said ESMB is cruel. You are putting this in his mouth to make him look bad." I'll take that as an concession by Purple that she was mistaken. Thanks, Purple.

Unfortunately, the half dozen or so usual bunch - plus a few hangers-on who really don't understand - (Not including you in this, Purple) are doing what they usually do to someone they want ostracized and nullified: lots of misleading, and misrepresenting, ridicule, with emphasis on references implying, or even directly asserting, mental illness, etc.

Same old same old.

Thanks for having the courage to step apart from that and "call it as you see it."

It's called having to go to bed, Veda. I just didn't have time to answer that bit. I tried a couple of times but it was just easier to snip it in the end.

I will have to dig harder to find your quotes but I still maintain that even if you don't actually use the word "cruel" you support Alanzo's general thrust.

You even said it in the quote above - that there are at least a dozen or so posters here that ostracize and nullify others by misleading, misrepresenting and ridiculing them. Sounds pretty cruel to me. I don't see the board that way and I don't see the other posters that way. I think you are wrong about that as I said, and double for Alanzo.

I like and respect the other posters here as some of the most quality people I've ever met. That would actually include you, except I think you're too sensitive. My personal opinion is that, like Alanzo, you see insult where none is intended, hit back, and then, when the insults start to fly, instead of wondering how it all happened, you assume that the board is this mean and horrible place. But it isn't that way for me - and it's not like I never get into fights with people or that everyone always thinks sunshine comes out of my bottom. Au contraire mon frere.

Despite all that, as I maintained throughout the last brouhaha with you, I do have a soft spot for you. You are a part of this community, albeit a difficult part in some ways. But I took you off ignore because I do think you're valuable, and not just because of your depth and breadth of knowledge on Scientology, but because your personality is a part of the weft and the warp of this place.

There is no cabal - no "gang of twelve" - just beautiful, flawed, beautiful, beautiful people living, loving, fighting, playing, dying - all the things that happen on this board.

[video=youtube;NBVJuA0jr6Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBVJuA0jr6Y#t=350[/video]

Oh well, at least my little tablet-fishing queen loves me.

PS It is now impossible to do anything on the tablet due to a certain kitty, with a heart on her side, insisting on helping me find the fish. I've reverted to the laptop for a quiet life.

Ooh, kitty!! Lol!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

--snipped--

Unfortunately, the half dozen or so usual bunch - plus a few hangers-on who really don't understand - (Not including you in this, Purple) are doing what they usually do to someone they want ostracized and nullified: lots of misleading, and misrepresenting, ridicule, with emphasis on references implying, or even directly asserting, mental illness, etc.

Don't understand what?

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

Thank you TG1. I am starting to see what was going on. Phew it's a lot of reading.

But still, I think when I came of Scn, it was a lingering doubt, and I was in TERROR of reading the internet. Even though I was OT V. I just thought I would be forever in trouble (worse than an SP declare that I already had? Doesn't make sense but that was how I felt). When I did start reading, the layers came off. Kind of how Arnie lists it, though it wasn't quite so pronounced as what he says...

It takes layers and layers and layers to get down to how deep the cult has instilled beliefs.

I believe (and it's ok if others have a different view, those different views make the board work) that people coming out and still believing in the tech is ok. It takes a long long time to get through it all. For some longer than others. For example: Hasn't Marty changed his views? Some of the books he suggests reading and some of the subjects he brings up on his website are TABOO in Scn. They are other practices and NOT OK. So he has changed or evolved too, hasn't he? Human, like the rest of us.

I think it is not right, for lack of a better word, to invalidate someone who still drinks the Kool-Aid.

And I will admit when the success stories were being posted here, that ticked me off. I did not want to be reading that crap. I was still believing some of it, but not much, and I certainly did not want to read any of that junk when I was trying to sort through my own stuff.

Now, if those were something that an individual member had, and wanted to share, I think that is different. I don't think I have any right to ridicule that person for it. But posting them as a third party, no, that is not right. To me, it was more like spam.

(afterthought: The Debbie Cook thing is very different to me. And I have every right to have no respect for what she did. I do see that she did cause damage. But there are serious integrity issues that bother me with what she did. Oh well. Water under the bridge. She is not someone trying to recover from Scn in my mind).

------------------

Try to remember for yourself: How did you feel right after you left Scn or the Sea Org? How did you get to where you are now? Who/what helped you with that?

Don't bother to read it all or else you'll poop your own diapers.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Purple Rain]

Yay! Seriously... Anon has the caek, can ESMB be all about pie? Plus I'm so geeky, this is what I got my son who is also geeky and bakes for his birthday (he was born on pi day lol):

http://shirt.woot.com/offers/i-heart-pie-apron



Pecan is amazing... it's also time for pumpkin. My last volunteer gig was right down the block from a place opened by some Aussies who run a pie shop. I was told I wasn't a real volunteer until I ate some of their pie... never had their sweet stuff, but their savory was AMAZING. OMG...this gal likes pie.

That would be Pie-Face, yes? They've started three franchises in New York, I believe.

Edit: Also, love, love, love the apron!!

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Psst Bea, I got you in. You just need to pay the membership.

Damn, I am still waiting for my invitation to the AntiCabalists ball. I don't actually know what Cabalism or AntiCabalism is but I see a lot of Joking & Degrading, so that's probably a sign that something very good is happening.

If my membership in the Church of Hoaxology makes me an Illegal Anticabalist, can I petition to merge membership, like the COS and NOI? Just like the NOI only doing Dianetics (not Scientology) the Hoaxologists would only do J&D and not actually take any responsibility for adult or mature kinds of junk.

Thanks in advance for your kind consideration to this matter.

Sincerely,


Mr. E. Sandwich
Legal Affairs Director
Church of Hoaxology Int'l

 

[TG1]

HH,

Your Church of Hoaxology is the most ecumenically affiliated of all the Scientology-critical cabals, churches, political action committees, cells, focus groups, encounter groups, transgender hookups, secret Facebook groups, boards, blogs, twitter feeds, conspiracy-nuts and Indy OSA groups.

A thousand flowers are blooming, and everyone wants you in their bouquet. Hoaxology is the perfect combination of carnivore and photosynthesis.

 

[Smurf]

How come my boobs are so small?

Emma would make a better Power Girl.

 

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

HH,

Your Church of Hoaxology is the most ecumenically affiliated of all the Scientology-critical cabals, churches, political action committees, cells, focus groups, encounter groups, transgender hookups, secret Facebook groups, boards, blogs, twitter feeds, conspiracy-nuts and Indy OSA groups.

A thousand flowers are blooming, and everyone wants you in their bouquet. Hoaxology is the perfect combination of carnivore and photosynthesis.

Eww!

The only thing worse than people eating vegetables are vegetables eating people.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Pooks]

Damn, I am still waiting for my invitation to the AntiCabalists ball. I don't actually know what Cabalism or AntiCabalism is but I see a lot of Joking & Degrading, so that's probably a sign that something very good is happening.

If my membership in the Church of Hoaxology makes me an Illegal Anticabalist, can I petition to merge membership, like the COS and NOI? Just like the NOI only doing Dianetics (not Scientology) the Hoaxologists would only do J&D and not actually take any responsibility for adult or mature kinds of junk.

Thanks in advance for your kind consideration to this matter.

Sincerely,


Mr. E. Sandwich
Legal Affairs Director
Church of Hoaxology Int'l

You've been a prospect for a long time. The cabal likes you and thinks highly of you except when they think you're being a pain in the ass.

Talk to Emma about your Membership fees and oh by the way, there's an initiation fee.

You'll be given a copy of the membership rules once you finish your Eligibility Sec check.

Panda does the sec checks.

Jenni c/s them. If you are unflat on your FPRD, we love that, as it means your evil purps are still intact.

ML,

Pooks.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

You've been a prospect for a long time. The cabal likes you and thinks highly of you except when they think you're being a pain in the ass.

Talk to Emma about your Membership fees and oh by the way, there's an initiation fee.

You'll be given a copy of the membership rules once you finish your Eligibility Sec check.

Panda does the sec checks.

Jenni c/s them. If you are unflat on your FPRD, we love that, as it means your evil purps are still intact.

ML,

Pooks.

I just thought of something after reading that. Be forewarned, it's not J&D. Occasionally I do "literal". LOL

It just occurred to me that many groups (colleges, clubs, fraternities, sororities, armed forces, gangs, mafia, cults……..) have INITIATION RIGHTS to get in.

In fraternities/sororities they have "hazing".

In street gangs they have "Beatdowns".

And so it goes.

I just realized that ESMB has its own initiation rights. It's kind of a good-natured hazing that sometimes has an edge to it. When Alanzo came back from exile, he was in the "initiation" stage to re-join.

He failed. He got all freaked out for whatever reason and that's all that happened.

Anyone who is here and remains here has to go through it and find their feet and a balance of how to live in a diverse ecosystem of thought and perception about the COS (Crimewave of Scientology).

I really think that's all that happened. Alanzo freaked out during the initiation rights. That's his "cruelty".

ps: Board members bent over backwards to help him, go super-light, but he saw betrayal and "cruelty" instead. The initiation rites essentially test whether a person can co-exist in an environs where they don't have their every thought "validated" and sometimes they are disagreed with.