Mike Laws

[Zinjifar]

Mike, I'm sure you could find out worse things about me on 'Church' sites than I could about you, but, I don't make a practice of that anyway. Nor, I think, does alanzo. He's a little too narcissistic to worry about others' foibles

My problems with Marty/Mike are political; that and a well justified lack of trust about their motives and goals. That's no reason they can't be friends or yours and I don't think you have to cast any tomatoes as a 'rite of passage' here. You might look at some of the analysis of their public posture/activities, but, I'm sure you'll reach your own conclusions.

Now, if you happen to know personally about 'Church' crimes but don't want to talk about it because you're hoping to *salvage* the organization and prevent its prosecution... well, I might give you a glupsch-eye or two.

Zinj

 

[scooter]

Hi Mike - I remember you from the CLO days back in ANZO before you went "over the rainbow" (what a horribly misleading term that one was)

Like you, I tried not to drop friendships simply because someone was in "Ethics trouble" but I never succeeded as much as I now wish I had. And I count ANYONE who's blowing the whistle on this toxic cult in any way whatsoever as a person worthy of respect.

Glad you've made the jump publicly and I'm very glad you've stuck by your mates.

That's real personal integrity as far as I'm concerned.

diggercobbersportmatebluey - make ya feel at home?

 

[Mike Laws]

G'day Mike. So there you were just doing your own thing and not really saying too much and just taking it easy and they go and piss you off and make you start speaking out (again).

I swear, this group is too stupid to live.

On the upside it's nice to see you around these parts

Emma,

I know, right. First you, retired from ESMB, wanting to get on with your life, leaving this chapter behind you, getting you arrested for an unsustainable charge. ESMB was notably, if not statistically, slowing down. They have energized you, energized the board, energized dozens, if not hundreds of others.

Me, though no major piece of anything, quitely working to help a few people get on with rebuilding their new lives, trying to create meaning and success that was rewarding. If the church had a tenth of a brain, they would say "this guy is not coming out publically against us, he is trying to help exes create lives out of Scientology, leave him alone because exes who have satisfying lives are not as likely to spend their time coming after us". But no, because 1-2 years ago I gave Marty and his wife frequent flier miles to visit her sick father (one leg of which Marty visited Mike), I am a threat requiring public slander. They don't want me to talk and say everything I know.

On every strategic, tactical, or operational level, these types of actions are moronic.

Maybe the no kids policy is a primorial survival mechanism, these idiots are too stupid to breed, so it makes sure new blood comes in.

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

[Mike Laws]

Welcome Mike. I met you on the Freewinds in Dec '95/Jan '96. I think I have a copy of some newsletter you sent out back then. It's good see you have survived!

Ralley Racer,

Howdy, not sure who you are, but a pleasure to make/remake your aquantance. I am in Dallas frequently, perhaps some day we can get together over a coffee or beer.

Mike

 

[Sindy]

Synthia,

Through the little communication we have had, I have found you to be charming and delightful, a beautiful person. I hope we have the chance to meet IRL in the near future.

Mike

Me too, Mike. I'm laughing cause for a minute there I was thinking, "Who the hell is IRL?"

Yes, in real life I hope we meet.

On M & M...you are a good friend and should never be persuaded to be otherwise, of course.

I have had very good communication with both of them, especially Mike who I find to be more approachable and less of a hard ass. Marty has been very nice and very nasty to me, both. Mike has helped me on my leaving steps and has helped me immensely. I adore Christie. I really have no personal axe to grind and have actually stuck up for Marty on many occasions as others would testify to but, what I said above, is something I cannot deny. I cannot ever know, really, how horrific it has been for others.

When I see how my "supposed" friends have treated me since I left, I feel the same way you do and how you regret ever treating people so poorly. I imagine that is how people that got out long ago felt about Mike and Marty at the time. They have had long protracted battles with them still at the helm. I will never know how that feels except to liken it to how it feels to be persecuted in my local area, to have my goldenrod (full of lies) shown to people but not to me, to be shunned completely. It's just surreal. It's creepy beyond description and I believe that experience pales in comparison a thousand fold to what others have experienced.

I don't want to hate, I don't want to be divided. I want this whole thing to be over. I can like Mike and Marty and still see how they need to smooth out their relationships. It would be different if they weren't in the position of being opinion leaders. Being in the cult for so long, not being able to voice what one really believes, perceives, etc. is no way to find truth and the same exists outside the church.

Somehow it will all turn out if we all keep seeking the whole truth and nothing but the truth, IMO.

There, being a Newbie, I bit on the flesh of the sweet bait. So, there ya go

 

[Zinjifar]

I hadn't really noticed ESMB 'slowing down'. Damn it.

Zinj

 

[Emma]

I hadn't really noticed ESMB 'slowing down'. Damn it.

Zinj

Actually it had. Quite significantly as per the stats.

Mike is right about this one.

I'll post stats over the weekend that show how effective OSA is at generating their own bad publicity.

 

[Alanzo]

I know exactly what you mean about friendships, maintaining human bonds, and the importance of such.

It was LRH who said that they could all be destroyed through the words of another.

I don't believe that's true.

I think that if you get pissed off at Marty or Mike, or lose your friendship with them, because of something I or anyone else said, then wouldn't that be your responsibility? Even if what I said was false?

See, I think that LRH created the "3rd Party Law" because there was so much true and completely damning information that could be found out about him that he had to come up with something that would demonize people who talked about him behind his back - especially if what they said was true.

So I do not believe in the 3rd party law. I believe that each person maintains or does not maintain his own friendships, and to blame a 3rd party on the health of those friendships is "other-determined" to say the least.

So I actually welcome someone as obviously intelligent as your self coming on here and sticking up for Marty and Mike, and maybe even creating a kind of "rugby clinch defense" thing where they might get the courage to come over here and have a match or two - where stuff can actually get hashed out.

They need all the friends they can get. And more power to them!

So that's what I say about it.

It's good to have you here.

So speak up and don't be a shy crybaby!

 

[Panda Termint]

Michael Laws.
If I had to choose just one guy to have my back in a free-for-all fight with the CofS, you'd be that guy.
Welcome back to ESMB.

 

[Mike Laws]

Zinj,

Lol, you are funny.

Politics, don't get me on about politics. Marty is pretty left, I am rather right, if left is the superior politics for survival in life, why do I have to pick up most of the tabs???

With regards scn, I have no intention of ever picking up a set of cans again that doesn't have soup or beer in them. Period. The subject has no place in my future life other than its prior role, bad in good in forming the imperfect lot that is me.

With regards the battle against injustices and all in the church, I don't know how meaningful it is to make public statements about some things. If I knew of real crimes, it wouldn't be wise for me to publically let on here, with my real name. My church intel/cover ops days are 20 years old, way past statute of limitations. The church is reading what I right within minutes of this being posted, these boards are monitored minutely. Word is that DM reads martys blog daily.

Morally is different. For example, I was involved in the team that put Robin Scott in Jail for stealing the OT Materials. I have long since contacted Robin personally, discussed the matter, appologized, and been forgiven.

I believe a lot of the stuff we have to go through is best kept private until we are ready to share openly, our recovery is really for ourselves, until we are in a position to help others with theirs.

Though it may mean nothing to you as it is simply words, I can sleep at night knowing what I have done and am doing with what I have.

Again, I don't know what I will be doing, but decided to take the opportunity OSA/RTC has created for me in violating our cease fire to expand my communication lines.

With regards M&M, I can't and won't speak for them. I wound't maintain a friendship with them if I thought they had a major bad plan in mind. I could be wrong, don't think I am though. I believe they fall into the same group as many of us, realized they messed up, did some bad, trying to make it right so that they can be free for their futures.

You don't know me, so have no way of knowing if I am a good or bad egg, so my vouching for others is especially meaningless.

Mike

 

[smartone]

Comodore Alanzo and Zing,

If life is a journey partially made rich and meaningfull by the interaction with vibrant and lively characters, then you two are definately people I would love to get to know.

Regarding the "bait" of M&M, let me explain myself. I have watched this site for most of a year. You kids can play pretty rough. Sooner or later one of you will google my name, start digging and will discover stuff on me on one of the M&M Church hate sites. If I merrily show up here without disclosing what some would consider essential information, I know you will not play nice, so lets try and avoid that.

The Church's primary problem with me is that I will neither abandon or betray certain friendships.

In honesty, there is not a whole lot of bad stuff on M&M anyone could tell me that I am not aware of either through experience in the church or the course of friendships. It is not my place to try and spread good stuff about them because it won't be listened to. I do not agree with everything being done on any side of the fence, but respect anyone who is trying to blow the wistle or create change, and trying to prevent human suffering.

One of the things I have been most disgusted with myself on, in breaking away from the culture, is how few real friendships I had and maintained within the COS, friendships and relationships are essentially disposable ... someone gets into ethics trouble, assigned to the RPF, whatever, people turn their backs or worse. I remember getting into trouble, while in RTC, because if a friend was assigned lower conditions, or to the RPF, I would visit them, talk to them, check up on them and wish them the best ... something "unbecoming" of my position. I hate that I bought into it.

M&M, especially Marty, are friends of mine, they have treated me appropriately and well as friends. Last year, my dog (150 lb mutt) had a catastrophic stroke, becoming paralized from the neck down. Marty came to see me, helping me with him, comforting me. No one knows this, its what friends do, it wasn't for his fame or edification. It doesn't matter how much research you do on a person, you don't know the person until you befriend them on a personal level. Friends do not forget things like this.

I don't care about status as a scn, or ex, or independant, all I care about is relationships, real relationships with people. If someone has my friendship, I want them to be able to predictably know that I will be there for them providing they hold up their end of the deal.

Its part of my human evolution.

Mike

Nice

 

[SirRalliart]

Ralley Racer,

Howdy, not sure who you are, but a pleasure to make/remake your aquantance. I am in Dallas frequently, perhaps some day we can get together over a coffee or beer.

Mike

PM me when you are comin' to Big D and we'll go have a Shiner or two.
Mike Roiger

 

[MostlyLurker]

Welcome Mike!

...With regards the battle against injustices and all in the church, I don't know how meaningful it is to make public statements about some things. If I knew of real crimes, it wouldn't be wise for me to publically let on here, with my real name. My church intel/cover ops days are 20 years old, way past statute of limitations. ...

Please don't think things are of too little importance to be told. So many lies have been told by Co$, don't let them remain uncorrected. Your story is important.

 

[Feral]

snip

Regarding the "bait" of M&M, let me explain myself. I have watched this site for most of a year. You kids can play pretty rough. Sooner or later one of you will google my name, start digging and will discover stuff on me on one of the M&M Church hate sites. If I merrily show up here without disclosing what some would consider essential information, I know you will not play nice, so lets try and avoid that.

There is an exclusion; There is an unwritten ESMB law, anything that the CofS has put out on you is not admissible in any argument with you as it is tainted evidence.

The Church's primary problem with me is that I will neither abandon or betray certain friendships.

In honesty, there is not a whole lot of bad stuff on M&M anyone could tell me that I am not aware of either through experience in the church or the course of friendships. It is not my place to try and spread good stuff about them because it won't be listened to. I do not agree with everything being done on any side of the fence, but respect anyone who is trying to blow the wistle or create change, and trying to prevent human suffering.

One of the things I have been most disgusted with myself on, in breaking away from the culture, is how few real friendships I had and maintained within the COS, friendships and relationships are essentially disposable ... someone gets into ethics trouble, assigned to the RPF, whatever, people turn their backs or worse. I remember getting into trouble, while in RTC, because if a friend was assigned lower conditions, or to the RPF, I would visit them, talk to them, check up on them and wish them the best ... something "unbecoming" of my position. I hate that I bought into it.

M&M, especially Marty, are friends of mine, they have treated me appropriately and well as friends. Last year, my dog (150 lb mutt) had a catastrophic stroke, becoming paralized from the neck down. Marty came to see me, helping me with him, comforting me. No one knows this, its what friends do, it wasn't for his fame or edification. It doesn't matter how much research you do on a person, you don't know the person until you befriend them on a personal level. Friends do not forget things like this.

I don't care about status as a scn, or ex, or independant, all I care about is relationships, real relationships with people. If someone has my friendship, I want them to be able to predictably know that I will be there for them providing they hold up their end of the deal.

Its part of my human evolution.

Mike

Very nice.

 

[TG1]

Mike Laws,

Welcome to ESMB. You sound like a good man. I dig your loyalty to friends. That's a big deal to me, too. Everything else is pretty much bullshit.

TG1

P.S. Really sorry about your dog. That's tough.

 

[Arthur Dent]

Ditto, Mike.
Welcome!
I was going to say just about the same, but TG1 put it so succinctly!
And sorry about your dog, too. And that was nice of Marty to help you.
Glad to have you here.

 

[Opter]

Welcome to ESMB Mike.

I read your story about your father last year.

Glad you are doing well.

Opter

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Hi Mike!

Welcome Mike! I'm glad you're out, and very glad that you joined us here...I'm sure you will meet up with some old friends, and make some new ones, too!

I share your desire to help, as do MANY others here...

(Pssst....Alanzo is the Commodore of a very small cornfield in the mid-western United States! )

 

[Veda]

I hadn't really noticed ESMB 'slowing down'. Damn it.

Zinj

The only place where stats always rise is Scientology

Any other place will - eventually - have fluctuating stats. ESMB's archives are extremely valuable. Their value is one thing that doesn't fluctuate.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Posted by Mike Laws

snipped

One of the things I have been most disgusted with myself on, in breaking away from the culture, is how few real friendships I had and maintained within the COS, friendships and relationships are essentially disposable ... someone gets into ethics trouble, assigned to the RPF, whatever, people turn their backs or worse. I remember getting into trouble, while in RTC, because if a friend was assigned lower conditions, or to the RPF, I would visit them, talk to them, check up on them and wish them the best ... something "unbecoming" of my position. I hate that I bought into it.

I totally agree ...

Welcome (back) Mike, it is really good to see you here.