Well, I'm out now.

[Tanstaafl]

MarkWI - good post. Another sorry tale of things that shouldn't be.

I wish you every success in whatever path you now choose.
Let none of us make the same mistakes again!

Cheers

tanstaafl

 

[Roadrunner]

I must admit I didn’t write him a cramm order. (A public can cram order an MAA?) But I wrote a KR on him, and nothing changed.

At the beginning I thought I was really helping Scn by writing a KR on every spotted outpoint. So that it gets corrected. After many years I found myself still writing them, but just for my own integrity, I knew nothing was going to be done about it.

In fact I never saw any of my KRs produce any real change, and I wrote many of them along the years.
And the more I was writing, the more they where looking for what’s wrong with me.

I spent many hours of (paid) sec-check explaining why I was upset with the MAA and about the authors of the hidden KRs on me. The C/S was trying to find what I did to these people to pull-in hidden reports on me. The unstated EP was ‘stops to complain about hidden reports’.

At the end of the 4 or 5 session on the stupid worthless cycle I wanted to tell to the examiner to fuck off and that I will never get another session in that org, and I told that to my auditor walking to the examiner. He told me to calm down and ‘better you dont't’. Doing it would mean 6,7,8 sessions ($$$), losing my good standing status, my scientology job and other I cannot tell. “Your needle is floating” said the examiner (?). I just hope my auditor (OT5) wrote everithing down.

Years earlier I waited 4 years for a Board of Review that never came. I did TR3 every month for 4 years (unable to get services in between). Even the ED Int wrote me he was puzzled about this “slow justice”. In the end they told me I could not have it as my ethics folder could not be found, and to simply forget it and resume my services.

Scientology does not belong to me.
I should not waste years of my life trying to correct it and being blamed for doing so.

I am not the Church and I’m not Scientology. I may find knowledge that works for me in Scientology and I take it. But the moment I take it because I buy a course or I cog in session, it is mine. I do whatever I want with it and I don’t want zombies around telling me when, why and how I should do things.

And in that, the Freezone seems to be years ahead from the Church.

I have a dream of the Church loosing its copyrights and I hope every hidden secret of the Church be exposed because I think only that way the scientology philosophy may become free, and people may freely take the good there is in it and forget the bulshit.

After learning about the GO and past and current criminal acts done on critics and squirrels I now believe the Church of Scientology is a suppressive group of unaware people, headed by a criminal con man.

And feel sad about it.

M

What you received was not Scientology. It was just some people doing as they pleased or because of their own MU's, failures, failed purpose, or something like that. I learned quickly to separate that which people do and what some writings said. I was at a good place, which was Flag Mimeo.

That what you tell sounds all so familiar. Prior to me sharing my information on the Internet I wrote many reports, suggestions etc. Because of the lack of response and not seeing any change I figured that I had no other choice then sharing that what I saw, and the understanding that I had. Not less communication, just more of it to more people.

Most certainly you may cram some MAA. If having good reason you may cram any person within the organization. What one does is keeping one's own space clean and do take the necessary actions. Then, you simply go on with your life.

Scientology is as sane as each of us are.

RR

 

[Roadrunner]

That's not true.

You know SO members don't get paid for their work (just get $ 50(?) weekly as pocket money - if lucky to get it at all). In exchange, by policy, the org should cover for them medical expenses, uniforms, auditing, etc.

You can demand anything but no way you will receive it!

Check about the many XSO offloaded because of illness.

On the purif I had to pay vitamins myself while in the SO, the org simply didn't have money for it, I was told.

I am aware of the situation. In the late 80's we got $15 each week at Flag.

Medical expenses were paid, but not for everything. In fact I was forced once to go see an outside doctor by the MLO. It was me that said that it was not necessary. The MLO persisted, so I went. Uniforms we got, I delivered them to staff at Flag.

Paying for your own vitamins on the Purf sounds absurd to me. Auditing is kind of tough to get. You could get it easier if high production. Contacts would help. The simplicity is that the individual staffmember was never priority. If you wanted something you needed to get very persistent.

FO 732 Allowances is quite clear.

RR

 

[Roadrunner]

That would the Yahoo group that you tried to join under a false ID? That group? Or are you referring to your trying to post on ARS as "Barbara Schwartz"?

Ah, this is actually funny, and at the same time very sad. You are quite wrong on both accounts. Why would I want to join your group when you play around there with your moderating and controlling game?

And as you correctly point out - I have standards, the problem is that you cannot meet them.

Indeed, I completely fail to fall down that low...

Still have your fixed opinions about your hero's Gerry Armstrong and RVY? By the way RVY could not stand Gerry.

RR

 

[Roadrunner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Wenlock
That would the Yahoo group that you tried to join under a false ID? That group? Or are you referring to your trying to post on ARS as "Barbara Schwartz"?

And as you correctly point out - I have standards, the problem is that you cannot meet them.

LOL!

Yeah, I though so too! That someone would think I would lower my standard to his. Funny...

RR

 

[Alanzo]

What you received was not Scientology. It was just some people doing as they pleased or because of their own MU's, failures, failed purpose, or something like that. I learned quickly to separate that which people do and what some writings said. I was at a good place, which was Flag Mimeo.

Like a fascinating episode of Mutual of Omaha's "Wild Kingdom", we are watching a Scientology Personality in the wild.

Shhh!

Here we have the SP assigning the everyday reality of what one experiences in the Scientology Cult to the "This is Not Scientology" circuit. This circuit is placed over anything the SP sees that goes against what Scientology has been mocked up to be in the SP's mind. This circuit can play out, continually aiding it in its survival, indefinitely.

What one does is keeping one's own space clean and do take the necessary actions. Then, you simply go on with your life.

Scientology is as sane as each of us are.

Here's one of the most interesting survival strategies of the SP. What started out as an "ethics" and "justice" procedure, which we believed was supposed to correct the group to keep us all on the Straight Road, has now degraded into a mere "cleansing ritual", in which no resolution or actual outcome is sought any more. The SP now knows that nothing will ever come of the Cleansing Ritual. It's just being performed for its own sake.

Contrary evidence and facts exist everywhere in this environment which threaten the SP's carefully constructed belief system.

How long can the Scientology Personality survive with these "look away" strategies in an environment with evidence ALL OVER THE PLACE that they are living in a dream world??

We don't know. We do know of one Scientology Personality which has survived for 57 years. That may very well be the longest life span of a Scientology Personality yet recorded in the wild.

Shhh! Let's back up into the bushes and watch....

 

[Roadrunner]

Like a fascinating episode of Mutual of Omaha's "Wild Kingdom", we are watching a Scientology Personality in the wild.

Shhh!

Here we have the SP assigning the everyday reality of what one experiences in the Scientology Cult to the "This is Not Scientology" circuit. This circuit is placed over anything the SP sees that goes against what Scientology has been mocked up to be in the SP's mind. This circuit can play out, continually aiding it in its survival, indefinitely.

Here's one of the most interesting survival strategies of the SP. What started out as an "ethics" and "justice" procedure, which we believed was supposed to correct the group to keep us all on the Straight Road, has now degraded into a mere "cleansing ritual", in which no resolution or actual outcome is sought any more. The SP now knows that nothing will ever come of the Cleansing Ritual. It's just being performed for its own sake.

Contrary evidence and facts exist everywhere in this environment which threaten the SP's carefully constructed belief system.

How long can the Scientology Personality survive with these "look away" strategies in an environment with evidence ALL OVER THE PLACE that they are living in a dream world??

We don't know. We do know of one Scientology Personality which has survived for 57 years. That may very well be the longest life span of a Scientology Personality yet recorded in the wild.

Shhh! Let's back up into the bushes and watch....

Your Scientology personality only seems to exist in your circuit. Well, may be you should shortcut it.

RR

 

[Vinaire]

Scientology is as sane as each of us are.

Nicely put!

.

 

[Vinaire]

The only problem is that the word SCIENTOLOGY has taken on may different meanings. So I would modify RR's statement as follows.

Any knowledge is as sane as each of us are.

.

 

[Alanzo]

Nice Sig, Vinaire!

 

[Tanstaafl]

The only problem is that the word SCIENTOLOGY has taken on may different meanings. So I would modify RR's statement as follows.

Any knowledge is as sane as each of us are.

.

Vinaire, wouldn't that be "Any organisation is only as sane as its members"?

How can knowledge be sane or insane?

 

[MarkWI]

Vinaire, wouldn't that be "Any organisation is only as sane as its members"?
How can knowledge be sane or insane?

I guess you are right.

Humm, members as a collection of individuals, but individuals have different weight on the sanity of the organisation depending on their post and location in the command channel.
I guess a mathematical formula could be worked out...

The more totalitarian an org is, the more may be screwed up by a single bad apple at the top. :confused2:

 

[Vinaire]

Vinaire, wouldn't that be "Any organisation is only as sane as its members"?

How can knowledge be sane or insane?

First of all, I think, RR was referring to "Scientology philosophy" and not to "Scientology organization."

"Scientology organization" is insane in my opinion because it is squirreling "Scientology philosophy."

Some may disagree with me saying that "Scientology philosophy" has its insane elements too. But to me it is a subject that is not quite wrapped up, and it is very much open to interpretation.

Any policy, which came about, was written to handle some type of situation. Applying that policy to a different type of situation, or to a different degree of situation, would be misapplication.

The most difficult subject to teach is ethics (rationality). A person who cannot think rationally cannot be expected to apply tech and policy correctly.

That is why we have the datum: If ethics is out, tech and admin will be out too. My decision to disconnect from CoS was simply based on CoS's failure to uphold ethics (as in rationality). I do not trust their ability to think.

That decision was simple to make after giving them every opportunity to correct their thinking.

.

 

[Roadrunner]

Vinaire, wouldn't that be "Any organisation is only as sane as its members"?

How can knowledge be sane or insane?

The outcome depends on the user...

RR

 

[Terril park]

Your handlers are going to scold you for this!

Doubt he has handlers. He's an eccentric. He thinks Barbara Shwartz is cool.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Schwarz

 

[Roadrunner]

Doubt he has handlers. He's an eccentric. He thinks Barbara Shwartz is cool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Schwarz

Meaning?

RR

 

[Tanstaafl]

First of all, I think, RR was referring to "Scientology philosophy" and not to "Scientology organization."

"Scientology organization" is insane in my opinion because it is squirreling "Scientology philosophy."

Some may disagree with me saying that "Scientology philosophy" has its insane elements too. But to me it is a subject that is not quite wrapped up, and it is very much open to interpretation.

Any policy, which came about, was written to handle some type of situation. Applying that policy to a different type of situation, or to a different degree of situation, would be misapplication.

The most difficult subject to teach is ethics (rationality). A person who cannot think rationally cannot be expected to apply tech and policy correctly.

That is why we have the datum: If ethics is out, tech and admin will be out too. My decision to disconnect from CoS was simply based on CoS's failure to uphold ethics (as in rationality). I do not trust their ability to think.

That decision was simple to make after giving them every opportunity to correct their thinking.

.

Got it, Vinaire. Thanks.

 

[Mick Wenlock]

Ah, this is actually funny, and at the same time very sad. You are quite wrong on both accounts. Why would I want to join your group when you play around there with your moderating and controlling game?

Oh you were not so sanguine when you started e-mailing me to tell me that I did "not know who you are dealing with". That would be just before you tried to join the list under a false ID after being kicked off it. Kind of makes your stance now sound a tad pathetic.

Seems your memory is becoming very selective and very short.

Indeed, I completely fail to fall down that low...

Still have your fixed opinions about your hero's Gerry Armstrong and RVY? By the way RVY could not stand Gerry.

RR

Ah - this from a person who tried to masquerade as a mentally deranged woman from Utah? Not far how much lower you could possibly go. Looks like you have already reached rock bottom and are now tunnelling in bedrock.

This information would come from what exactly? You ? Someone who worked at the giddy heights of flag mimeo for a few months? At least I have met and talked with both Armstrong and RVY.

 

[Roadrunner]

Oh you were not so sanguine when you started e-mailing me to tell me that I did "not know who you are dealing with". That would be just before you tried to join the list under a false ID after being kicked off it. Kind of makes your stance now sound a tad pathetic.

Seems your memory is becoming very selective and very short.

Ah - this from a person who tried to masquerade as a mentally deranged woman from Utah? Not far how much lower you could possibly go. Looks like you have already reached rock bottom and are now tunnelling in bedrock.

This information would come from what exactly? You ? Someone who worked at the giddy heights of flag mimeo for a few months? At least I have met and talked with both Armstrong and RVY.

This may suffice for various to have seen this side of you... It is hard to safe face when having lost it already. I leave you with your delusions.

RR

 

[Little Bear Victor]

This information would come from what exactly? You ? Someone who worked at the giddy heights of flag mimeo for a few months? At least I have met and talked with both Armstrong and RVY.

Mick,

Thanks for that information that RR wasn't volunteering despite me having asked about it at least three times: He got as "high" up as Flag Mimeo!

Wow, that really makes him the King of Knowledge.

Now I know why he hasn't seen any confidential LRH advices and thinks the Church is being run on Green on White.

Ha!

I was already starting to wonder if we were dealing with another Barbara Schwartz type...

But that explains it to me.

He is just clueless.

(How would I know? Because I worked in Flag Mimeo for a bit in the early 90ies! You know absolutely nothing about what goes on at Int Management level when you're there! Not a goddamn thing.)

V