A survey for those that still have feelings for Scientology

[SanDiegoMember]

I did not give 5 years of my life to Scientology Inc., mostly unpaid, to sit back and watch Scientology be unmocked.


With that in mind I have a vague plan of action, but first a survey.


What would you like to see changed in Corporate Scientology (in no way does this question infer that you would return to Corporate Scientology, and yes I realize this could be construed as a listing question. )?


I'll start with just a few ideas:
1. Abolish disconnection.
2. Abolish fair game.
3. Allow anyone to come and go as they please. If all they want is life repair and then want to go live their life, which would be just fine.
4. Establish a Board of Directors, half of which would be admin trained and half tech trained to direct Church activities.
5. Let the Board pick a General Manager to run the day to day functions of the Church.
6. Truly abolish crush sales and reging for pure donations.
7. Truly abolish the use of ethics for the sake of ethics. Acknowledge the true freedom that a thetan deserves and only use ethics when tech isn't going in.
8. Getting rid of anyone in administration that is not tech trained, except as advisory/little power roles.
9. Release all LRH material under the Creative Commons license. No one should have a monopoly on truth. Nor use copyright as a tool to stop the practice of Scientology.
10. Restore the original OT levels.
11. Using ethics in coordination and conjunction with the tech to help the individual move up the Bridge and better conditions in Life (its purpose being not only when tech doesn't go in), and to wisely use it to also protect the group, even if that group is a field auditing practice.
12. A council of Class VIIIs (and/or XIIs) along with a few OEC/FEBCs (or even better if they are Class VIII and FEBC) to run the show.
13. Issue an unconditional amnesty, which in no way, shape or form is an inducement to come back to the Church, for all those who have given their heart and soul to Scientology.
14. Abolish the SO and all associated foolishness like the RPF.
15. Cancel all "Justice" policies.
16. Apply labor and civil laws.
17. Create an independent review board to investigate illegal activities in the church and bring the perpetrators to Justice.
18. Remove the IAS membership requirement for services.
19. Create a member-elected board of governors for the IAS.
20. General amnesty - unconditional.
21. Reset policy - establish a parishioner/staff board of directors or advisors to realign the admin scale including review, reissuance, and creation of applicable policy.
22. Release all of Hubbard's work to public domain.
23. Open source e-meters - but create a set of metrics meters should meet.
24. Stop lying.
25. Drop all reference to church and religion. Scientology is a practice based on ancient philosophical principles. Religion is too narrow a description, and in any case, not everyone warms to a 'following' or groups or organizations.

Thanks;
Howard Dickman
Former Senior C/S of the San Diego Org and an RPF graduate
Chandler, Oklahoma

 

[Lexing Jenkins]

26. Open all LRH material to everyone, free of charge, to read at one's own discretion.

Ahh... # 22

I see it now. Must have had an MU....

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

I agree with all of that list and would add some further items;

27. Clients' originations regarding spiritual matters, and / or anything to do with Scientology, should be acknowledged and respected, so no more tellings off (or worse) for saying something contrary to what Ron Hubbard said at some time or another.

28. No more requirements to write success stories immediately after the client has finished a process or level. You need weeks if not months to decide whether or how much you've benefited from what you've done, and even then, the decision to write one should be entirely voluntary.

29 (allied to 28) Definitely no regging immediately after a process or level has been finished. In fact, I'd do away with regging altogether; the client knows best what, if anything, he or she needs to do next.

30. An acknowledgement that in the 21st century people do have sex before (or even without) marriage and IT IS NOT A CRIME.

31. Likewise, homosexual relationships are not against the law nowadays (and nor should they be).

 

[Dulloldfart]

Without wishing to take this too seriously, there is no mention of the fact that with its teeth and claws pulled the cult would get the shit sued out of it the world over. Game over.

Paul

 

[DagwoodGum]

Release the "tech" as little mind puzzles in Readers Digest, Cracked Magazine or The Onion - sequentially and see if we get our first clear or otherwise any real evidence of lasting case gain as a result of Scientology's "tech".

 

[Bill]

I'd go for #24, "Stop lying" but that would mean no more "Abilities Gained" on the Grade Chart, "Clear" would cease to be, likewise "OT". All Hubbard's books, lectures and issues would have to come with a disclaimer: "None of these statements have been verified as being true. Scientology does not and cannot promise any such results." Their sales brochures would have to say: "Scientology might make you feel a bit better for a short time! Your results are not guaranteed. You might feel worse.".

If Scientology could only promise results that had been PROVEN to be delivered consistently and without a doubt, that would ... well, that would destroy Scientology.

I'm all for that.

 

[Knows]

I did not give 5 years of my life to Scientology Inc., mostly unpaid, to sit back and watch Scientology be unmocked.


With that in mind I have a vague plan of action, but first a survey.


What would you like to see changed in Corporate Scientology (in no way does this question infer that you would return to Corporate Scientology, and yes I realize this could be construed as a listing question. )?


I'll start with just a few ideas:
1. Abolish disconnection.
2. Abolish fair game.
3. Allow anyone to come and go as they please. If all they want is life repair and then want to go live their life, which would be just fine.
4. Establish a Board of Directors, half of which would be admin trained and half tech trained to direct Church activities.
5. Let the Board pick a General Manager to run the day to day functions of the Church.
6. Truly abolish crush sales and reging for pure donations.
7. Truly abolish the use of ethics for the sake of ethics. Acknowledge the true freedom that a thetan deserves and only use ethics when tech isn't going in.
8. Getting rid of anyone in administration that is not tech trained, except as advisory/little power roles.
9. Release all LRH material under the Creative Commons license. No one should have a monopoly on truth. Nor use copyright as a tool to stop the practice of Scientology.
10. Restore the original OT levels.
11. Using ethics in coordination and conjunction with the tech to help the individual move up the Bridge and better conditions in Life (its purpose being not only when tech doesn't go in), and to wisely use it to also protect the group, even if that group is a field auditing practice.
12. A council of Class VIIIs (and/or XIIs) along with a few OEC/FEBCs (or even better if they are Class VIII and FEBC) to run the show.
13. Issue an unconditional amnesty, which in no way, shape or form is an inducement to come back to the Church, for all those who have given their heart and soul to Scientology.
14. Abolish the SO and all associated foolishness like the RPF.
15. Cancel all "Justice" policies.
16. Apply labor and civil laws.
17. Create an independent review board to investigate illegal activities in the church and bring the perpetrators to Justice.
18. Remove the IAS membership requirement for services.
19. Create a member-elected board of governors for the IAS.
20. General amnesty - unconditional.
21. Reset policy - establish a parishioner/staff board of directors or advisors to realign the admin scale including review, reissuance, and creation of applicable policy.
22. Release all of Hubbard's work to public domain.
23. Open source e-meters - but create a set of metrics meters should meet.
24. Stop lying.
25. Drop all reference to church and religion. Scientology is a practice based on ancient philosophical principles. Religion is too narrow a description, and in any case, not everyone warms to a 'following' or groups or organizations.

Thanks;
Howard Dickman
Former Senior C/S of the San Diego Org and an RPF graduate
Chandler, Oklahoma

Can we masturbate? :wink2:

 

[TheSpectator]

I did not give 5 years of my life to Scientology Inc., mostly unpaid, to sit back and watch Scientology be unmocked.


With that in mind I have a vague plan of action, but first a survey.

What would you like to see changed in Corporate Scientology (in no way does this question infer that you would return to Corporate Scientology, and yes I realize this could be construed as a listing question. )?

I'll start with just a few ideas:
1. Abolish disconnection.
2. Abolish fair game.
3. Allow anyone to come and go as they please. If all they want is life repair and then want to go live their life, which would be just fine.
4. Establish a Board of Directors, half of which would be admin trained and half tech trained to direct Church activities.
5. Let the Board pick a General Manager to run the day to day functions of the Church.
6. Truly abolish crush sales and reging for pure donations.
7. Truly abolish the use of ethics for the sake of ethics. Acknowledge the true freedom that a thetan deserves and only use ethics when tech isn't going in.
8. Getting rid of anyone in administration that is not tech trained, except as advisory/little power roles.
9. Release all LRH material under the Creative Commons license. No one should have a monopoly on truth. Nor use copyright as a tool to stop the practice of Scientology.
10. Restore the original OT levels.
11. Using ethics in coordination and conjunction with the tech to help the individual move up the Bridge and better conditions in Life (its purpose being not only when tech doesn't go in), and to wisely use it to also protect the group, even if that group is a field auditing practice.
12. A council of Class VIIIs (and/or XIIs) along with a few OEC/FEBCs (or even better if they are Class VIII and FEBC) to run the show.
13. Issue an unconditional amnesty, which in no way, shape or form is an inducement to come back to the Church, for all those who have given their heart and soul to Scientology.
14. Abolish the SO and all associated foolishness like the RPF.
15. Cancel all "Justice" policies.
16. Apply labor and civil laws.
17. Create an independent review board to investigate illegal activities in the church and bring the perpetrators to Justice.
18. Remove the IAS membership requirement for services.
19. Create a member-elected board of governors for the IAS.
20. General amnesty - unconditional.
21. Reset policy - establish a parishioner/staff board of directors or advisors to realign the admin scale including review, reissuance, and creation of applicable policy.
22. Release all of Hubbard's work to public domain.
23. Open source e-meters - but create a set of metrics meters should meet.
24. Stop lying.
25. Drop all reference to church and religion. Scientology is a practice based on ancient philosophical principles. Religion is too narrow a description, and in any case, not everyone warms to a 'following' or groups or organizations.

Thanks;
Howard Dickman
Former Senior C/S of the San Diego Org and an RPF graduate
Chandler, Oklahoma

Seems to me that you're making the assumption that Scientology is workable and that it produces predictable results. I disagree with that.

Also, some of the policies you want canceled are LRH: Disconnection, Fair Game, Ethics, the SO, Justice policies, etc. Man, you must be a real SP to want be rid of all that valuable, on-source tech!

Lying is also part and parcel of Scientology: "Handling truth is a touchy business ... Tell an acceptable truth." L. Ron Hubbard, The Missing Ingredient, 13 August 1970. There is also TR-L!

Tony Ortega's reporting on Jeff Hawkins and Ethics Tech and Jon Atack on Scientology Mythbusting are must reads (if you haven't already read them). They explain a lot of why Hubbard created many of the various justice systems in Scientology.

The lower Bridge has some occasionally helpful things but the top of the Bridge is just Hubbard's crazy alter ego. I've audited through New OTVII - there's NOTHING for anyone at the top of the Bridge. Even the original OT levels are a total mess and no one became OT on them. More importantly, there are no Clears and that was the first promise of Dianetics!

No, Scientology is a failure. Let the unmocking continue!

 

[Free Being Me]

Utilize wastetech for fast easy dumpster disposal of all things cult.
*Practical, efficient, economical and quite the time saver
dispatching cult waste leading to exploring a cult free life.​

 

[DagwoodGum]

Can we masturbate? :wink2:

Depends on whom or what you are thinking of whilst doing so... Remember, each thought is a postulate that will imprison you and others for eons, so remain thoughtless during your doing of the deed as per the "tech". Masturbation should be performed hands free with tone 40 while your TR's are in! "Stand up, sit down in that chair..."

 

[Free Being Me]

Depends on whom or what you are thinking of whilst doing so... Remember, each thought is a postulate that will imprison you and others for eons, so remain thoughtless during your doing of the deed as per the "tech". Masturbation should be performed hands free with tone 40 while your TR's are in! "Stand up, sit down in that chair..."

​

 

[DagwoodGum]

​

She get's me to "Tone 40"in a heartbeat!

 

[Boojuum]

You're right in thinking it's not all bad.

Let's use 3 modern examples of systems that seemed very workable for a while but failed with panache. Perhaps these models would be helpful in increasing our understanding.
Nazi Germany
Communist Russia
Communist China

They all required slave labor and police state control to maintain. Hmmm... sounds familiar.

On the other hand, if there was someone charismatic enough with MODERN marketing appeal, I think someone could sell the tech and have successful centers if they were run on the model that the many successful missions were run. Scientology without Hubbard's ethics and silly over-control and paranoia was an expanding thing. Missions used to apply many of your listed benefits and were successful. It's not that far-fetched. What is far-fetched is assuming anything with the name "Scientology" wouldn't send someone running in the opposite direction.

It's irresistable to add to the list:
30. Take money out of the organizations AMAP. Or run it like a non profit where no one is getting rich from services. The greed thing kicks in so easily in our culture.

 

[Reasonable]

Scientology must pay back all money on account for anyone who wants it imminently no questions asked.

A true refund policy if you ask for your money back within 3 months after you completed as promised.

 

[AnonyMary]

Hi Howard,
Not the most receptive forum to ask, since most here are done with the whole organization.

I gather the Freezone and Independent Scientology groups and such would provide you with answers, but don't ask them in the same room, as the arguing between them would defeat your efforts.

I suspect you would have gotten better responsea here on ESMB if the question had been rephrased to something along the lines of ' Looking back at the time of when you left scientology would your having left at the time been prevented if one or more of the following changes had been made in the organization when you were in?'

Just saying...

Mary McConnell

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

The problem with Scientology can be summed up in one line from KSW #1 - you can only be upbraided for lack of results. To "fix" Scientology you have to solve that. How you do that will take more than what you list. You have to ask yourself - if it is fixed, will it still be Scientology?

Mimsey

 

[arcxcauseblows]

i'm with you on fixing it, agree refund policy could be improved, no need to kick someone out forever just because they want a refund, i never agreed with the church's harsh vengeance

if restaurants did that they'd never survive, someone gets a steak overcooked so they're supposed to eat it or get their money back and never eat there again?

that said i don't understand the subject, don't know anyone that actually does completely understand it, but processing sounds fun, that part is just words i don't see what's so scary about that

 

[Jump]

Because scientology is such a load of horseshit, if you tried to fix it, the best you could do is get your shoes dirty.

I have to quote from Udarnik's sig-line here . . .

Imagine, if you will, a load of horseshit. And we’re not talking just your average load of horseshit; no, we’re talking colossal load of horsehit. An epic load of horseshit. The kind of load of horseshit that has accreted over decades and has developed its own sort of ecosystem, from the flyblown chunks at the perimeter, down into the heated and decomposing center, generating explosive levels of methane as bacteria feast merrily on vintage, liquified crap. This is a Herculean load of horseshit, friends, the likes of which has not been seen since the days of Augeas. And you look at it and you say, “Wow, what a load of horseshit.” - John Scalzi


On second thoughts... maybe these weren't the feelings you were looking for :confused2:


* Augeas is best known for his stables, which housed the single greatest number of cattle in the country and had never been cleaned—until the time of the great hero Heracles.

 

[lotus]

Can we masturbate? :wink2:

Can you please forward me the answer to your request when you get replied

* it's for a friend who's asking!

 

[CommunicatorIC]

I did not give 5 years of my life to Scientology Inc., mostly unpaid, to sit back and watch Scientology be unmocked.

Sunk cost fallacy.
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/

EDITED TO ADD:

Let's say you spent 5 years of your life, completely unpaid, learning and "mastering" exorcism, or voodoo, or ritual Crowley Magik, or Shamanism, and later became convinced that said practice simply did not work. Had no merit. Period. End of discussion.

Could you confront that?

Could you admit you made a mistake, a poor investment of your time, and move on?

Or would you have to be "right?"

Would you insist that, having spent 5 years of your life learning and "mastering" exorcism, or voodoo, or ritual Crowley Magik, or Shamanism, you could not tolerate said practice being "unmocked," and spend the rest of your life trying to justify your original mistaken decision, be "right," and "save" the practice that you know does not work?