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Any good in scientology?

gulliver

Patron
Hello everyone,

I have been interested in scientology for a little while, did some research read some books and corresponded with ex church-scientologists
There is one question (amongst many) which I believe is an important one and which I would like to share:
From an anti-scientology point of view, for example someone who has tried scientology and think that it is simply no good, is there after all something about the technology which is new or different and which really works, really embetters the person without taking anything in return, I mean improving the individual for his/her own benefit strictly without necessarily adopting a way of life or an ideal?

Thank you for helping me find an answer,
sincerely
 
Last edited:

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
There is one question (amongst many) which I believe is an important one and which I would like to share:
From an anti-scientology point of view, for example someone who has tried scientology and think that it is simply no good, is there after all something about the technology which is new or different and which really works, really embetters the person without taking anything in return, I mean improving the individual for his/her own benefit strictly without necessarily adopting a way of life or an ideal?

Thank you for helping me find an answer,
sincerely

Huh?

Before you get blasted here, you might want to leak a small amount of info about yourself and why you are asking this convoluted question.

Paul
 

gulliver

Patron
I was planning to introduce myself, didn't know it was necessary to before asking any question
How is my question convoluted and why would I not ask such a question? how does it need justification?
get blasted?
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
I was planning to introduce myself, didn't know it was necessary to before asking any question
How is my question convoluted and why would I not ask such a question? how does it need justification?
get blasted?

If you take the time to read ESMB even partially, you will find at least a dozen iterations of your question and adequate discussion.

And, you may run into more important questions along the way.

Zinj
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
The major conceptual offering of Scientology, IMO, is the "Actual Goals Problem Mass". Scientology failed to actually develop safe and effective means of getting at it, so the answer has to be a qualified NO, in terms of actually delivering.
 

SomeGuy

Patron Meritorious
How is my question convoluted and why would I not ask such a question? how does it need justification?

I reread it a few times and I still have no clue what you're asking.

Is there a way to do scientology without becoming a scientologists? Is that the gyst?
 

gulliver

Patron
Some ex-scientologists told me about a relief and feeling of control after auditing, what is that on a technical level, placebo, temporary result?
 

Panda Termint

Cabal Of One
gulliver said:
... without taking anything in return, I mean improving the individual for his/her own benefit strictly without necessarily adopting a way of life or an ideal?
Anything is possible, I guess, it's just not possible under existing conditions.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
Some ex-scientologists told me about a relief and feeling of control after auditing, what is that on a technical level, placebo, temporary result?

That sort of result would be equated in scientology terms with a "floating needle". I don't think it's a placebo. It is, IMO, a very temporary result, typically between hours and a few days, with some people reporting weeks on the outside. I have experienced such a result that lasted just short of a week. While that FEELING was temporary, the insights I gained into my own character and my sensitivity towards others was radically changed.

Most people I knew in college, and in my own family, said that Scientology humanized ME, though I know that is not common perception of Scientologists. Of course, I also was a proselytizing asshole for a while, which is deeply embarrassing, but there is no doubt in my mind that I benefited greatly from my processing, though the organization damaged my life in a way that is non-recoverable.
 

gulliver

Patron
so eventhough you benefited from the processing in what sense did it not actually deliver? (put aside the organisation)
 

paradox

ab intra silentio vera
....

really embetters the person without taking anything in return

....

Oh yeah. That. Above, in bold. :goodluck:

One way to find out. Go into your local "Church" and find out firsthand. Not particularly advisable but, firsthand experience and all you know. Should you decide to take that route, leave your checkbook, credit cards, and cash AT HOME. If you've taken enuf cash to, say, buy a book or whatever, preferably give a fake name, address, and tel. number for the inevitable invoicing of the purchase unless you'd enjoy getting onto a mailing list from hell that bombards your mail box daily and uncannily tracks you wherever you go if you should happen to move.

Better think it through, whichever way you decide to proceed.
 

rhill

Patron with Honors
Some ex-scientologists told me about a relief and feeling of control after auditing, what is that on a technical level, placebo, temporary result?

I always thought this was a very insightful description on the introductory levels of Scientology, found in 1968's article by Ralph Lee Smith in Today's Health:

"In my visits to Scientology centers I encountered many enthusiastic persons who claimed that they had achieved fantastic progress in short periods of time through Scientology. They evinced total belief in the system. Their attitudes toward their auditors, toward persons running the Scientology centers, and above all, toward Ron Hubbard, bordered on reverence.

"Such attitudes are familiar to every psychotherapist and psychoanalyst. In the early stages of treatment, the patient usually regards his analyst as a paragon of wisdom and knowledge. He also experiences what he believes are sweeping "insight," and feels that he is making dramatic progress.

"One of the many fundamental differences between Scientology and psychotherapy is that a genuine therapist or analyst knows that these feelings are illusory, and that they must be transcended by the patient on his way to real emotional health. The analyst is not a god, a lawgiver, or a great discoverer, but a fallible human being. Genuine insight comes with painful slowness, and feelings of swift progress are nearly always a chimera.

"By contrast, Scientology keeps the patient in this illusory state and exploits it for profit. Instead of being totally free, a clear is a person who believes totally in Scientology and who totally reveres Ron Hubbard. The clear feels, with happy certainty, that he now relates to the world with complete success.

"But this view usually is not shared by the world. To his family and friends, the person who enters ever more deeply into Scientology seems to drift further and further from reality and to live more and more in the special in-group world that Scientology has created. Communication between converts and the rest of the world lapses and fails. The Scientologist believes that he is privy to exclusive truth, while everyone else suspects that he has gone over the deep edge."​

Also John Ablett in 1988's Scientology – what readers think,

"On trying Scientology counselling for the first time, you may well experience a feeling of insight, mild euphoria and the apparent resolution of some personal problem. If you were unaware that other techniques also offered similar experiences, you might believe the Church's claim that it alone had access to such methods. The supporting theories, as found in the writings of L Ron Hubbard, contain a profound mystical element and are couched in matter-of-fact technical jargon which makes them sound all the more plausible. And, after all, Hubbard himself was a nuclear physicist (wasn't he?).

"After your counselling session, you will be sent to an 'Examiner' who will confirm your new state of mind. At the end of a number of such sessions, a major insight may signal that you have achieved a particular 'grade' of existence. You will then declare this to the Examiner and be required to write a 'success story'. Afterwards you will receive a certificate along with the fulsome congratulations of other Scientologists.

"Still in your euphoric mood, you will be whisked away to the 'Registrar' who has instructions not to let you go until you have signed up for the next period of counselling or for a training course. It doesn't matter about the money. You will find it somehow. If you really can't find it, you can always sign a contract to join the Church staff. You will then live on a pittance and work every hour that God sends. But what is more important than your spiritual freedom? It is not only this lifetime but your infinite future which is at stake. And only the Church holds the key."​
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
There is nothing positive within Scientology that cannot be found elsewhere and which also costs less, is more effective and far less dangerous.
 

uniquemand

Unbeliever
The technical name for this phenomenon is "transference". Please see Caroline Letkeman's brilliant essay "The Soul Hackers" for more on this topic. While I believe that a lot of the techniques in Dianetics and Scientology can be highly beneficial to the subject, I am quite aware that Hubbard and his organization play on the "side effect" of transference to bind them absolutely to the Church and it's Founder. Without the "wins", the transference wouldn't work at all. In clinical environments, the transference is watched for, and the subject is made aware of it, and it is not used to bind the subject to the therapist. http://www.carolineletkeman.org/writings/soulhackers.html
 

gulliver

Patron
would it be correct to say that though dangerous, the technology has some benefits
and would it be possible to just get the benefits or one does not go without the other?
 
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